Solution for Shadowlands Flying

[shockslayer84]

That already exists. Because world quests are so easy and people were finishing them so quick, they decided with BFA that they had to make them super annoying.

So now here's a typical world quest experience for me:

Run to the spot, there's a yellow dot, but I don't know how to get to it. Go to wowhead, look up quest, find the comment "the path to the top starts at 58, 31" or "the cave entrance is at "22, 34". /way 22, 34. Go inside wipe the floor with the mob, quest done.

The other thing they did was have quests where the mobs spawn on a fixed timer so you have to stand there and wait, you can't just aoe kill them all at once. It's fascinating that they seem laser focused on making things take time, but seem to have no idea that it's just shit and a terrible experience for the player. No one is excited by "one shot mob... wait 15 seconds... one shot mob... wait 15 seconds". Like, seriously, are they trolling?

so much this

[Deadite]

Pathfinder is fine.

It is the wait for a year+ and add Pathfinder II with more made up reps to grind that people have a problem with imho.

[Adam Jensen]

Simple solution:

Require that the the stories for each zone is done, then pony up ~20k gold to some NPC.

There you go. Flying. Worked in TBC, Wrath, MoP and Cata (though those had level requirements rather than quest requirements).

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More crying for handouts, free allied races is not enough apparently

"Handouts"

Like this is welfare or some shit. Used to be you hit level cap, paid some gold and hopped on your mount. It wasn't until Draenor until suddenly that wasn't enough.

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If you guys were in charge of things at Blizzard, players would Unsubscribe in the first month.

The whole point of Subscription-based MMO's is to design content in a way that it lasts for a couple of months, at least. That's the whole point. To keep people Subscribed for as long as possible.

You do realize Pathfinder wasn't a thing until Draenor right? And whatever the faults of TBC/Wrath/Cata/MOP, people weren't leaving in droves because flying was immediately available at level cap with some gold.

[Kpmk]

Yeah I came back for the rep bonus to grind out some reps to get my bfa flying. Finally got my champions of azeroth and tortollan rep to revered. Just needed the nazjatar and mechagon reps now. So I do a few days grinding out rep before I finally say fuck it, why am I forcing myself to log on every day and do this completely unenjoyable content. Isn't gaming supposed to be fun =D

[Lolites]

I don't see people here saying, "hey, give us less to do". They're saying, "hey, stop wasting our time with bullshit, and get back to the good stuff that's actually at the roots of wow."

are you kidding me? wow was built upon wasting time, dont believe me? go and try classic... EVERY goddamn thing takes way too long, the "grind" you now have to do to get flying is nothing compared to grinds from vanila people did for far lesser reward...

as for islands, warfronts, garrison, world quests not being very good, i love how people on forums always know what people will like before puting it in the game so people can try it... blizz should hire some of you prophets, would save them a lot of development time and money... not to mention i seriously doubt you could find single thing in wow that is unanimously hated/loved...

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It is the wait for a year+ and add Pathfinder II with more made up reps to grind that people have a problem with imho.

that would be reasonable, but reading the forum seems more like people have problem they dont receive flying upon loging in, along with complete mythic raid gear, all achievments and a ton of gold...

[Adam Jensen]

that would be reasonable, but reading the forum seems more like people have problem they dont receive flying upon loging in, along with complete mythic raid gear, all achievments and a ton of gold...

That's quite the extrapolation

[Lolites]

It depends on what part of pathfinder you're looking at. If you leveled through PVP or dungeons, doing the questlines give you nothing valuable because you'll probably have better gear from PVP and dungeons. Same thing with world quests. Week 1 I was max level and had full HC dungeon gear and started doing mythic dungeons. Through dungeons and islands I was at the weekly AP softcap so doing world quests gave me nothing useful and I did them just for the rep.

In my opinion doing the main quest and explore all zones is fine. Doing 100 WQ is just tedious and unnecessary especially if there's a fixed amount of quests you can do. Same thing with the rep requirement. They can keep the rep requirement if we're able to somehow farm it. BC was fine with flying unlock at max level, WotLK was fine with flying unlock at LVL77 and Cata was also fine with flying unlocked from the start.

what the hell you need flying for if you only do instanced content?

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That's quite the extrapolation

i mean, if you check all of the MANY pathfinder/flying threads it really seems like it...

i might get behind the opinion of geting it sooner than in x.2 or so, but people whining about revered rep, thats just lazy...
not to mention most often mentioned argument being "i only want to do pvp/dungeons/raids why should i do wq for flying", completely ignoring the fact that if you only want to do instanced content you dont need flying at all, thats just beyond my comprehension...

[baskev]

It's very simple:

Unlock it in the form of an achievement if you have completed every quest in every zone for the first character you level through.

After you earn the account wide achievement, every new character can automatically fly if they have trained flying.

Going forward, every expansion should stick to this logic.

Nope. They should make pathfinder faster. So not patch x.2. But patch x.05 or patch x.1. But its fine as is.

Why is flying at launch so important. If you can level the zones without flying you can stand to wait a bit longer so you can ninja pull mobs etc from other people.

Nope, nope , nope.

[agentsi]

The issue is you attacking other players and calling them lazy for not wanting to play the game like you like to play it.

He's 100% correct though. Pathfinder isn't a hard thing to get, at all. Even really open games like guild wars, require you to do a fair amount of questing/story mode to unlock specific mounts.

Giving every player, access to everything, without any sort of reward deters players. Without progression, most folks don't play an MMO. Even if it is as little as, well if I work towards this I can earn flying. MMOs that do not have progression systems, whether via gear or story or mounts etc, don't do well.

The MMO market is full of lazy folks who want handouts. It isn't new information. How else do you think we got the weekly cache in the first place? And how folks bitched they didn't get MORE from it.

[tomten]

what the hell you need flying for if you only do instanced content?

Getting to the instance??

[Adam Jensen]

Getting to the instance??

Yep.

As Alliance, getting to Kings Rest / Atal'Dazar is kind of a pain without flying.

[Lolites]

Getting to the instance??

ehm... flypoints? or that 1 minute you would save by flying via mount is too much of your time? if so, then summon? i doubt anyone would have issue to summon you if you say you cant get to entrance due to no flying...

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I did classic up about halfway through mc. The grinds are less onerous there.

When I was doing the Onyxia attunement, it was largely done in content that was level appropriate for me. It was interesting. There was some challenge and the dungeons also dropped gear I actually needed.

Retail doesn’t work like that. You race ahead on character power - I gained 150 item levels in a week upon dinging - but you’re stuck doing the content for weeks after you’ve overpowered it and it should be obsolete.

When I’m doing mechagon I want to be like, “HEY! RUSTBOLT GUYS! I can kill anyone on this island! I can solo 30 mobs at once! Can’t we just win this thing today and you give me the essence?”

comparing attunment which is a questline to rep grind... ok, i see the problem is between your ears...
how about comparing rep grind, to something simmilar in classic, i dont know, how about REP GRIND?!

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Yep.

As Alliance, getting to Kings Rest / Atal'Dazar is kind of a pain without flying.

alliance have flypoint just outside AtalDazar... actualy closer to entrance than horde...

[Rendark]

Or how about just remove pathfinder and instead when you hit max level you pay like 50k gold to fly with that guy.

[Ragedaug]

I think not being able to fly, really makes the game play experience better.

Both in Legion & BFA, being grounded was a great experience.
Learning the lay of the land, best paths & shortcuts. Using flightpaths & other means of travel. Goblins glider's, toy's & tricks to get around is fun.

The problem is you can make this same exact argument to say we shouldn't use flight paths, goblin gliders, whistles, toys, or ground mounts. RP walk everywhere you want to go, because that's how your character would actually get around. Using ground mounts & flight paths is lazy.

RP walk until Pathfinder II, then we can all have a truly immersive experience. No portals, no zeps or boats that magically appear on the other continent with no time passed. You should be on the Zep the entire way from Org to Undercity, just like the Org to TB Zep.

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I mean, but it is.

Removing half of the requirements from the achievement to get flying is equally as silly to me as asking for a set of gear to be mailed to you for hitting max level so you can start raiding immediately. It sounds kinda pissbaby and childish, no? I think so at least.

Yes, I agree your argument sounds a little pissbaby & childish. We got flying mounts in Burning Crusades the moment we hit max level. In Wrath of the Lich King 3 levels before max level. In Cataclysm the entire time. In Mist of Pandaria as we hit max level...then they decided to take it away during the first big content patch. Makes me curious who left when that happened.

Now, after 4 expansions or having flight at max level with no strings attached, they have convinced a portion of the player base that flying is just like raid gear.

Why should we have ground mounts before getting exalted with every starting rep? Getting your ground mount at level 40, 20, 10, is like getting epic raid gear mailed to you at level 1 when you log in, am I right?

[Vilendor]

Pathfinder is fine a totally easy to get. There is nothing hard about it. What it takes is only time and not even much of it.

Oh really?

Please tell me more about how quick and easy was to finish Pathfinder 2 when it literally wasn't in the game for almost a year after BFA release?

Jesus some people on this forum....

You realize we talk about Actizzard artificially cockblocking flying in every expansion, right?

[Ragedaug]

That's true of a lot of things they did. I typically play a couple characters to keep things interesting, but in Legion, they basically forced you to keep playing your main for legiondaries. At one point I leveled an alt, and once I hit max level I started to realize all the shit I would have to wade through to make it viable, and I just unsubbed. I'm feeling similar right now about BFA - I got one character through the initial max level shitshow grind, and I started another and I just can't bring myself to go through it again, so I'm mostly just playing my main and fooling around, and probably eventually gonna unsub.

The grinds kept people around for the short term but drive people away once they get burned out.

Exact same feeling I got. I know you are agreeing with me here, but I just wanted to take the chance to agree with your agreement!

That exact same feeling is why I unsubbed again even after I got flying. I got pathfinder I, unsubbed, resubbed got pathfinder II...then got a few alts leveled, then realized I couldn't spend enough time on my main, and couldn't stomach the grind on any of the alts and I dropped again.

That's after me getting at least 10 characters to max level and raid geared in Wrath, Cata, and MoP. WoD was the first Xpac I couldn't get every class maxed, in Legion I leveled less, and BfA is a new low. I think I have 4 at max level and the thought of the grind on any of them pushed me to Classic.

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I think the revered requirement is mostly okay for the main factions, as normally once you finish a zone, you are already at honored. I think the more obnoxious part are the side faction which don't have their own zone, barely any quests and just a small number of world quests each day available to them. Wardens, Tortollians, Champions. These are the obnoxious ones which take just too long to complete. If they would release flying with Pathfinder Part I and limit the rep faction to the ones connected to your main zones which you can quest through and have world quest for over an entire zone, it wouldn't be that bad.

I would be 100% good with this. Give us the chance to get close to the rep requirement after finishing the zone/story, so I only have to do a limited amount of dailies, and I would have no problem with that. I'd stay subbed...well, subbed at least until the next part when I get to max level and face the never-ending grind on my main and every alt that I would like to be competitive.

[kappalol]

Oh really?

Please tell me more about how quick and easy was to finish Pathfinder 2 when it literally wasn't in the game for almost a year after BFA release?

Jesus some people on this forum....

You realize we talk about Actizzard artificially cockblocking flying in every expansion, right?

I'm not talking about time gating. If you start new character on a new account and get to Lvl 120 you have flying in what? 14 days of casual work? Ez.
And I'm totally fine with time gating and have no problem whatsoever that you can fly only half of the expansion.

Flying is just QoL thing.

[Ragedaug]

He's 100% correct though. Pathfinder isn't a hard thing to get, at all. Even really open games like guild wars, require you to do a fair amount of questing/story mode to unlock specific mounts.

Giving every player, access to everything, without any sort of reward deters players. Without progression, most folks don't play an MMO. Even if it is as little as, well if I work towards this I can earn flying. MMOs that do not have progression systems, whether via gear or story or mounts etc, don't do well.

The MMO market is full of lazy folks who want handouts. It isn't new information. How else do you think we got the weekly cache in the first place? And how folks bitched they didn't get MORE from it.

I could make an argument that more people would agree with than refute that every single player playing an MMORPG is lazy. I think it's lazy for people to use flight paths and whistles. Much lazier than flying there yourself. Even lazier using mage portals and hearthstones. Lazy to use mounts when you have your characters own two feet to get there.

It's lazy to expect more than 2 drops per boss per 40 people. Doing a 25 man raid? Lazy to expect more than 1 drop per boss. 10 man? you get 50% chance at one drop. If you expect more loot that that, you are lazy and expect handouts.

You do world quests to get rep? You are lazy. You should grind mobs at 1-5 rep per mob.

You die and don't want to lose your gear or experience? You are lazy.

If you aren't playing Everquest, you are lazy. Is that OK? Are you good with that? How far back do you want to go with this?

[VinceVega]

I could make an argument that more people would agree with than refute that every single player playing an MMORPG is lazy. I think it's lazy for people to use flight paths and whistles. Much lazier than flying there yourself. Even lazier using mage portals and hearthstones. Lazy to use mounts when you have your characters own two feet to get there.

It's lazy to expect more than 2 drops per boss per 40 people. Doing a 25 man raid? Lazy to expect more than 1 drop per boss. 10 man? you get 50% chance at one drop. If you expect more loot that that, you are lazy and expect handouts.

You do world quests to get rep? You are lazy. You should grind mobs at 1-5 rep per mob.

You die and don't want to lose your gear or experience? You are lazy.

If you aren't playing Everquest, you are lazy. Is that OK? Are you good with that? How far back do you want to go with this?

I know you are using hyperbole but i actually agree with some of you points^^
The world is too accessible. Portals to everywhere. The whole concept of "open world" is laughable at this point becuase most players don't even use or see that part of the game anymore.

And loot is waaaaaaaaay to abundant. In SL the actually tone it down. Well they have to because there are no upgrades anymore. Let loot be loot and so on

[Ragedaug]

I know you are using hyperbole but i actually agree with some of you points^^
The world is too accessible. Portals to everywhere. The whole concept of "open world" is laughable at this point becuase most players don't even use or see that part of the game anymore.

And loot is waaaaaaaaay to abundant. In SL the actually tone it down. Well they have to because there are no upgrades anymore. Let loot be loot and so on

I'm fine with loot slowing down. But I don't play WoW to play a travel simulator. I get it some folks like that, but every time I'm stuck traveling is time I get ask myself, "why am I 'playing' this game". When I'm traveling, I'm not playing the game. When I'm traveling I'm waiting to get to the place where I can play my character. You may find it engaging content to blankly stare at your monitor while holding both left and right mouse buttons for dozens of minutes on end, but some of us don't. I could be sitting there drooling, and smacking myself in the face with the other hand, and I would be just as successful as every other player running from point A to point B. Running from point A to point B is possibly the laziest activity in a game, yet I'm called "lazy" for not wanting to do the lazy thing. I don't get why or how folks find that engaging.

I like the idea of running to a place to discover it first before you can fly there. But now that I've done that, I don't need to do it again...and again...and again...and again...(this goes on into the hundreds or thousands).



"I would just like to get there quickly, so I can fight tough mobs, use my full toolkit to survive challenging encounters. that is fun to me".
"Well sir, you are just lazy. Instead you should use flight paths, where you don't even have to be at your computer, whistles that magically make you somewhere else, or holding both mouse buttons for a long time...cause those things are definitely not lazy. But you wanting to fight mobs in challenging content, instead of slowly traveling there, while AFK..get out of here with that laziness."