1. #13781
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    As I mentioned before, I figure they'll probably just add vaccines for this and it's descendants to the flu shot. Vulnerable types will get it, other folks will refuse it along with the flu shot, life and death will continue on pretty much as before. As you say, even if it may not grant immunity, it'll most likely still be reduced severity.
    The problem is that, in the absence of finding said vaccine in something approaching short order, we're looking at "buying" that reduced severity with an initial pass of this novel virus that kills some 1-2 million Americans and 30-45 million people worldwide over successive waves taking years to complete.


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  2. #13782
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Waiting for a vaccine is nice and all, but the societal cost compared to the likely mortality rate of the virus as understood right now is not worth it in the least. Chances of a vaccine coming out for this virus are actually pretty slim historically for the type/variant of virus, and the human testing portion would still likely take at least a year before even being approved. I hear talk of "we'll end the shutdowns once we eradicate the virus or the deaths stop!", but historically this almost never happens. We could get lucky and get a vaccine, or even better the virus burns itself out like SARS-1 did! However, the most rational response with the data we have now says herd immunity is the best option and that the shutdowns should end. As it stands, this could turn easily into another Spanish flu or Hong Kong flu, where the virus just becomes the norm and life goes on despite how many thousands of deaths occur every year.
    A touch bleak, but rationally thought out IMO.

  3. #13783
    Quote Originally Posted by stevenho View Post
    He. He.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51835856

    Pretty funny to see all the "we doomed" fearmongers turn around more and more day after day.
    Sweden and Belarus 100% correct BTW.
    Are you stupid? This has to be trolling...
    Your article says exactly what I said. She warned that we get herd immunity only at 70% and we should focus on slowing the spread and winning time.
    ffs

    Thanks for proving my point and disproving yours, I guess?

  4. #13784
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    On an related note, it'll be interesting if this leads to some updating to the ventilator designs. The NASA one seems like the US emergency one, easy setup, short usage, disposable or maybe refurbishable. Hopefully easier to put into action, possibly less damaging? Hell, maybe they can build the virus killing lamps into the design from the start...
    I mean, hopefully there will be many lessons we'll learn from this that will make life easier/better in the future. Honestly, part of the toughness with ventilators is the intubation. I'd love it if there was a better method of intubation, as well as more updated ventilators.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  5. #13785
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Just the opposite; if it never goes away then lockdowns are a waste.
    Without the lock downs, there would be more cases, more overcrowded hospitals, and a lot more deaths. If you think it is wasteful to save lots and lots of lives, then ... no sorry, you are just flat out wrong. The experiences that the US has already had at meat packing plants, keeping people coming to work because they are essential, and then having to close the plants down since over a quarter of the workforce has the virus, is proof that lock downs until decent processes are put in place (with increased cost and reduced productivity to account for virus protection) are absolutely necessary.

    Since we have not even come up with these processes for many of our food production plants, much less implemented them, lock down is still mandatory. Your plan leads to shutting down pretty much every business that requires lots of human interaction.

    Note: there *ARE* processes that exist and have been implemented. Judging by their results, these processes are very insufficient.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Blueprints for post-virus life:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...er/ar-BB13rvGy

    Title: Lessons from China: How the coronavirus has changed global business forever

    Synopsis: China is leading the way in showing the world what post-virus life will be like. Basically, their plan was short term draconian lock downs until the virus was mostly snuffed out, followed by gradually opening up their economy with new processes and lots and lots and lots of testing.

    Excerpts:

    The world's second largest economy was the first to be hit by the coronavirus outbreak, which forced it to halt travel, shutter stores and theme parks, mandate masks in public and encourage the public to embrace social distancing.

    Now, the country is gradually reopening. And as the rest of the world prepares to do the same, companies that were forced to first respond to the outbreak in China are using their early experiences to form a blueprint for other regions.
    Despite having a very very high population, and very high population densities, China is among the first set of countries to basically beat the virus. And they are big enough to be a model for other countries - that is what works in somewhere as populated as China is likely to work anywhere. As compared to Australia, which had just as much success, but with their lower population density can get away with things that would not work so well in more densely populated areas.

    Corporate responses in China have become a focal point for Wall Street analysts in recent months, as global brands such as Nike, Starbucks and Disney share their experiences in the country on calls with investors and credit their teams there for guiding them through the crisis.

    Nike, for instance, recently said it was "seeing the other side of the crisis in China" and has learned best practices that could be transferred elsewhere. And when Volkswagen reopened its giant plant in Wolfsburg, Germany, this week, it cited its experience resuming business at 32 of its 33 factories in China.
    Western companies are looking to what is happening in China to guide their own post-virus business processes.

    The new strategies that companies are introducing won't take life back to normal, according to business leaders and experts. Instead, they say the crisis could permanently upend the way we work, shop and manage our businesses.

    "This is the new normal," said Alain Benichou, CEO of IBM China. "There are many wake-up calls that we are working on right now."
    These new changes are likely to be permanent. Even if we find a complete and total cure for this virus, the new business processes will provide protection from future virus outbreaks. Does anyone want to go through this process again with a brand new virus???

    Katsikakis, a London-based partner who focuses on innovation and emerging practices at commercial real estate firm Cushman & Wakefield, has been advising companies around the world on the return to work.

    In China, the firm has already helped move more than 1 million workers back into offices. In Katsikakis' view, the crisis has fast-forwarded the future of work by as much as a decade.
    Western business leaders are working hand in hand with Chinese business leaders to come up with the new processes.

    In this new normal, desks are, unsurprisingly, spaced out six feet apart. Health officials around the world have for months advised people to maintain this distance from one another to prevent spreading the virus.

    Workers are instructed to walk "one way only" — clockwise — throughout the office, to avoid moving past each other and potentially spreading more germs. Katsikakis said the guidance was based on consultations with health care experts, who shared how medics were navigating in hospitals.

    One of the biggest takeaways the firm has gained from China, she said, is that "we need to ensure we have trust that we're going back to a healthy environment."
    These are some of the new business processes that are being worked on and implemented. Obviously some of these won't fly in the US - can you imagine Americans obeying "walk only one way" orders that they feel would violate their essential freedoms? This means that we will consistently have more virus issues than other countries. But many countries - probably most - will implement these types of suggestions and fairly reliably keep this virus - and any futures ones - under control.

    The way we communicate at work has also changed. The boom in demand for enterprise software, such as Microsoft Teams, has been "unprecedented," said Jared Spataro, corporate vice president for Microsoft 365.

    He said Thursday that the messaging and video conferencing program now has 75 million daily users — up 70% from last month.

    "We have a time machine as countries like China and South Korea have returned to work and school, and Teams usage continues to grow," Spataro told CNN Business.
    Microsoft is quite proud of the fact that its Microsoft Teams software package has been used successfully to help both China and South Korea come up with new business processes.

    Nike, for instance, has pivoted so well it "could change the curve that [it's] on for many years to come," she said. (Coresight has previously worked on research projects for Nike.)

    While the company was promoting online shopping prior to the outbreak, Weinswig said that business "really accelerated" in recent months. The sportswear giant reported strong earnings in March, partly because it was quick to accelerate its online business in China. Digital sales in Greater China rose more than 30% last quarter, while weekly active users for its activity apps shot up 80%, CEO John Donahoe told investors.

    The company's flagship app was crucial to its success. The platform launched in China during this period, and encouraged users to work out from home through a virtual "training club," according to Coresight. Weinswig noted that the app was free, which was "critical" for users.
    Nike is one of many companies that has contributed to China's recovery from the virus, as well as profiting handsomely from it.

    The outbreak also exposed cracks in the supply chain that most companies didn't even know about, according to IBM researchers.

    The company recently found that 90% of Fortune 1000 companies had secondary suppliers in Wuhan, the central Chinese city where the outbreak began, but "many had little or no interaction with them," Jonathan Wright, an IBM executive, said in a company webcast last month.
    It makes sense that Wuhan would be the first epicenter of the virus. Companies from around the world - 90% of the Fortune 1000 counts as close to all of them - used it as a transport hub for their products. Creating multiple instances of corporate supply chains will eventually be created to replace "Just in Time ultra efficient single supply chains". Creating supply chains that compete with the Chinese supply chains won't be for anti-China reasons, it will be for pure survival reasons. And China and other countries setting up Brazilian suppliers for soy beans to supplement - compete with? American suppliers is the flip side of this.

    At the same time, it may be too early for companies to confront this problem, said Ma.

    He noted that rebuilding supply chains take significant capital and time — two things most businesses are short on at the moment.
    This will be an ongoing process. China will maintain the supply chain monopolies that world wide businesses have created for quite a while. But little by little monopolies will change at least to duopolies, supply chains will be very tightly integrated between countries, and life will change.

    This is the most optimistic article I have read in a long long while. There is hope that a post-virus future will actually be pretty decent
    Last edited by Omega10; 2020-05-02 at 03:37 AM.

  6. #13786
    This article is kind of interesting. https://fee.org/articles/physicians-...es-here-s-why/

    Their video was removed from YouTube briefly, but it seems like it has been re-uploaded.

    The two doctors in the article have spoken to numerous physicians who say they are being pressured to add COVID-19 to death certificates and diagnostic lists—even when the novel coronavirus appears to have no relation to the victim’s cause of death. The actual reason is pretty simple though, through the cares act hospitals get an incentive. Hospital administrators might well want to see COVID-19 attached to a discharge summary or a death certificate. Why? Because if it's a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for—if they're Medicare—typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000,” said Jensen, whose claim was fact-checked by USA Today. “But if it's COVID-19 pneumonia, then it's $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000."

  7. #13787
    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    This article is kind of interesting. https://fee.org/articles/physicians-...es-here-s-why/

    Their video was removed from YouTube briefly, but it seems like it has been re-uploaded.

    The two doctors in the article have spoken to numerous physicians who say they are being pressured to add COVID-19 to death certificates and diagnostic lists—even when the novel coronavirus appears to have no relation to the victim’s cause of death. The actual reason is pretty simple though, through the cares act hospitals get an incentive. Hospital administrators might well want to see COVID-19 attached to a discharge summary or a death certificate. Why? Because if it's a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for—if they're Medicare—typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000,” said Jensen, whose claim was fact-checked by USA Today. “But if it's COVID-19 pneumonia, then it's $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000."
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...ims/index.html

    The video should be removed again if it wasn't already.

  8. #13788
    Quote Originally Posted by noidentity View Post
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...ims/index.html

    The video should be removed again if it wasn't already.
    The video has since been taken down by YouTube for violating the platform's policy on misinformation, a YouTube spokesperson said.
    Two doctors sharing their findings and their opinion isn't misinformation. You would have to be insane to think that. Also in other related news "World Health Organization praises Sweden for coronavirus response resisting shutdowns"

    http://archive.vn/PQOwR#selection-1395.0-1395.85

    Basically anyone under 65 that does not have any health conditions should be fine. The chance of dying from the virus is at an insanely low rate. If you are someone in the high risk group you should continue to isolate until a cure or vaccine is found.

  9. #13789
    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    This article is kind of interesting. https://fee.org/articles/physicians-...es-here-s-why/

    Their video was removed from YouTube briefly, but it seems like it has been re-uploaded.

    The two doctors in the article have spoken to numerous physicians who say they are being pressured to add COVID-19 to death certificates and diagnostic lists—even when the novel coronavirus appears to have no relation to the victim’s cause of death. The actual reason is pretty simple though, through the cares act hospitals get an incentive. Hospital administrators might well want to see COVID-19 attached to a discharge summary or a death certificate. Why? Because if it's a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for—if they're Medicare—typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000,” said Jensen, whose claim was fact-checked by USA Today. “But if it's COVID-19 pneumonia, then it's $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000."
    Conspiracy nutters believing everything they read on the internet, despite it already being debunked, isn't very interesting.

  10. #13790
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    Also in other related news "World Health Organization praises Sweden for coronavirus response resisting shutdowns"

    Basically anyone under 65 that does not have any health conditions should be fine. The chance of dying from the virus is at an insanely low rate. If you are someone in the high risk group you should continue to isolate until a cure or vaccine is found.
    That's not really what's being said.

    Also in Sweden: 50% of their deaths have been from the "protected" and "isolated" long-term care facilities.

    And no, the chance of dying from COVID-19 is not "at an insanely low rate". 10% of COVID-19 deaths are of people with no comorbidities. And even 10% of the death rate for COVID-19 is substantial.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

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  11. #13791
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Sure, reading statistical analyses and scientific studies isn't always the most exciting thing, but it's safer to think for yourself using the actual source material than having a new source make up your mind for you and telling you what's "fact."
    The same Scientific Studies that Doctors and Various News Sources get their Data from?


    So much fear is driving the narratives and the panic, which is probably worse than the virus itself in the long run.
    Who's Panicking?
    What Fear Narrative?

    Fortunately, from the data we've compiled over the past couple months, we can definitively say that COVID-19 almost exclusively kills eldery people and/or people with pre-existing conditions. In my infinite boredom of being locked up, I've had time to pour over studies and actual data from the federal government and my local/state governments, and all this data trends the same way to the point where it's not even close.
    Doesn't change the fact that it can still kill healthy individuals and kids with no Vaccine.


    COVID-19, which a different mechanism, tends to kill in the same way: the virus itself doesn't kill people, all the comorbidity factors of people catching the virus kill them. This is why in my state the percentage of people who die from COVID-19 with pre-existing conditions is currently 98.2%.
    The Virus is still the cause of Death.

    Waiting for a vaccine is nice and all, but the societal cost compared to the likely mortality rate of the virus as understood right now is not worth it in the least.
    Who said ANYTHING about waiting for a Vaccine before opening up? People in the Media are not even saying this.

    As it stands, this could turn easily into another Spanish flu or Hong Kong flu, where the virus just becomes the norm and life goes on despite how many thousands of deaths occur every year.
    Those are two very different Pandemics.

    Life Did not go on as "Normal" with the Spanish Flu.
    Last edited by szechuan; 2020-05-02 at 07:50 AM.
    A Fetus is not a person under the 14th amendment.

    Christians are Forced Birth Fascists against Human Rights who indoctrinate and groom children. Prove me wrong.

  12. #13792
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    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    Because it's not Both Sides.
    I never said it did

    He's the one saying things like we should be opening up even if Testing and Tracing is not Adequate and is Supporting Herd Immunity without providing much data himself.
    You are aware that while i understand the disgust of fascism to focus this heavily on that "both sides" argument for or against you in turn are contributing to that polarization? Being consumed by this does nothing for you personally and makes you rather irrational for political foe and ally alike.

    Also there is nothing wrong with opening up the nation slowly even if testing and tracing isn't fully on point yet, IF it is done in a controlled matter, IF there's a public sentiment that physical distancing is important. If there's a government that echo's that sentiment and if there's a law enforcement allowed to properly enforce such rules. That is what he is also speaking off.

    And yes humans are stubborn pig headed beings and yes i know things will go wrong even in the nations with the best intentions even if we all had contact tracing and testing up to a level to manage it.

    I am going to flat out also say that even in nations with high public obedience and the structure for it all there are going to be mistakes. That's why the overall message of interview was a call for finding more middle ground as you do need the majority on board and form my understanding a large part of Americans do support the physical distancing and ignore the federal government or even oppose it, up to 70% i believe.

  13. #13793
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    If you walk into a government building openly carrying a rifle, covering your face and not displaying a badge showing you are law enforcement official you should be shot dead the moment you step into the building. Full stop. There is no other acceptable course of action. None.

    @Keosen I didn't mean to quote you.
    In my opinion between such groups many parallels can be drawn looking at their behaviour and that of the KKK, they also claimed that intimidating people on their way to school was not against the law, burning crosses to intimidate was not against the law and so forth. And honestly this whole law argument and amendment law is weak to begin with, since those same people when apartheid laws got abolished decided to not respect that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    There definitely is, how do you control it without proper Testing and Tracing?

    And he did a horrible job trying to find the "Middle Ground".
    You rely for a large part on the public who have been made aware of its importance and that is where the problem lies in the US and i would even say the danger of a pandemic becoming a political polarized issue. Because even if you those mechanisms in place to control it you still need the majority of the public to be fairly obedient.

    That's why finding a middle ground is important as it serves as a starting point for both sides to come together, if that is even possible in the US is another question over the whole country unlikely but in several states very possible even in an election year in my opinion.

  14. #13794
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    You rely for a large part on the public who have been made aware of its importance and that is where the problem lies in the US and i would even say the danger of a pandemic becoming a political polarized issue.
    It's only a polarized issue because of one side.

    That's why finding a middle ground is important as it serves as a starting point for both sides to come together, if that is even possible in the US is another question over the whole country unlikely but in several states very possible even in an election year in my opinion.
    Which is a False Dichotomy, the Democratic Side is not against opening up.
    Last edited by szechuan; 2020-05-02 at 07:45 AM.
    A Fetus is not a person under the 14th amendment.

    Christians are Forced Birth Fascists against Human Rights who indoctrinate and groom children. Prove me wrong.

  15. #13795
    Sorry, I will not be taking the coronavirus vaccine.

  16. #13796
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    That's not really what's being said.

    Also in Sweden: 50% of their deaths have been from the "protected" and "isolated" long-term care facilities.

    And no, the chance of dying from COVID-19 is not "at an insanely low rate". 10% of COVID-19 deaths are of people with no comorbidities. And even 10% of the death rate for COVID-19 is substantial.
    Source for that?

    Here's something interesting.

    A recent Stanford University antibody study found https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...463v1.full.pdf here estimated the fatality rate from the virus is likely 0.1% to 0.2%.

    In New York City, the U.S. epicenter of the pandemic, the death rate for people 18 to 45 years old is 0.01%, or 10 per 100,000 in the population. People aged 75 and older, though, have a death rate 80 times that. For children under 18, the rate of death is zero per 100,000.

    More than half of the COVID-19 deaths in Europe occurred in long-term care or nursing-home facilities. At least one-fifth of the deaths recorded in the U.S. so far have occurred there.

    Nearly all the patients hospitalized for the coronavirus in New York City had underlying health conditions, according to a recent study found https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...-nursing-homes here.

    “Health records from 5,700 patients hospitalized within the Northwell Health system — which housed the most patients in the country throughout the pandemic — showed that 94 percent of patients had more than one disease other than COVID-19, according to the Journal of the American Medical Association,”

    The study found 42% of the patients were overweight and 53% had hypertension, and the others suffered from a variety of ailments.

  17. #13797
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    It's only a polarized issue because of one side.
    Which is a False Dichotomy, the Democratic Side is not against opening up.
    I am not going to argue about who created this issue of polarization around the pandemic that would be foolish, but both sides do partake in the game but i understand in an election year it is hard not to. Maybe nothing can be done to dismantle this.

    Never said they were against opening up, don't believe that this was a point made either in the interview. I am getting the feeling we did not watch the same thing.

  18. #13798
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    I'm saying that it seems to have spread back and forth between France and the US; or multiple infections crossing the Atlantic
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Highly doubtful.

    One side of the parent branch is almost exclusively in France. Couple that with the fact that there are French cases all up and down the whole clade, and the fact that they were identified earlier, all suggest that this mutation branch originated in France before coming to the US.
    A few weeks later my first "highly doubtful" idea is now supported by nextstrain; painting a branch red for the US where it previously was seen as being in France.

    Or in other words they put the branch infecting most cases in the NY-area as being in the US January 28th - to February 17th (they still believe it came from France before that), and then in February/March spreading both in the US, back to France, and to other countries.

    Obviously their conclusion may still be incorrect. Basically it's hard to draw correct conclusion when many countries haven't tested enough.

    Additionally we know that in some cases the spread was in tourism locations without spreading much to the rest of that country.
    E.g., Denmark has traced most of their early cases to Austria (with ski-resorts) followed by Italy. But Austria haven't had a severe outbreak; and I don't know if there are enough samples on nextstrain to find that connection - even though we know it is true.

  19. #13799
    https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/co...1c0e96ad17da60

    Coronavirus NSW: Dossier lays out case against China bat virus program

    China deliberately suppressed or destroyed evidence of the coronavirus outbreak in an “assault on international transparency’’ that cost tens of thousands of lives, according to a dossier prepared by concerned Western governments on the COVID-19 contagion.

    The 15-page research document, obtained by The Saturday Telegraph, lays the foundation for the case of negligence being mounted against China.

    It states that to the “endangerment of other countries” the Chinese government covered-up news of the virus by silencing or “disappearing” doctors who spoke out, destroying evidence of it in laboratories and refusing to provide live samples to international scientists who were working on a vaccine.
    The P4 laboratory at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in Wuhan in China's central Hubei province.

    It can also be revealed the Australian government trained and funded a team of Chinese scientists who belong to a laboratory which went on to genetically modify deadly coronaviruses that could be transmitted from bats to humans and had no cure, and is not the subject of a probe into the origins of COVID-19.

    As intelligence agencies investigate whether the virus inadvertently leaked from a Wuhan laboratory, the team and its research led by scientist Shi Zhengli feature in the dossier prepared by Western governments that points to several studies they conducted as areas of concern.

    It cites their work discovering samples of coronavirus from a cave in the Yunnan province with striking genetic similarity to COVID-19, along with their research synthesising a bat-derived coronavirus that could not be treated.

    Its major themes include the “deadly denial of human-to-human transmission”, the silencing or “disappearing” of doctors and scientists who spoke out, the destruction of evidence of the virus from genomic studies laboratories, and “bleaching of wildlife market stalls”, along with the refusal to provide live virus samples to international scientists working on a vaccine.

    Key figures of the Wuhan Institute of Virology team, who feature in the government dossier, were either trained or employed in the CSIRO’s Australian Animal Health Laboratory where they conducted foundational research on deadly pathogens in live bats, including SARS, as part of an ongoing partnership between the CSIRO and the Chinese Academy of Sciences.

    This partnership continues to this day, according to the website of the Wuhan *Institute of Virology, despite concerns the research is too risky.

    Politicians in the Morrison government are speaking out about the national security and biosecurity concerns of this relationship as the controversial research into bat-related viruses now comes into sharp focus amid the investigation by the Five Eyes intelligence agencies of the United States, Australia, NZ, Canada and the UK.
    This article is very interesting. I only quoted the top part but if you read the entirety it has a lot of information. Then at the end is a nice timeline:
    KEY DATES IN COVID COVER-UP

    November 9, 2015:

    Wuhan Institute of Virology publish a study revealing they created a new virus in the lab from SARS-CoV.

    December 6, 2019

    Five days after a man linked to Wuhan’s seafood market presented pneumonia-like symptoms, his wife contracts it, suggesting human to human transmission.

    December 27

    China’s health authorities told a novel disease, then affecting some 180 patients, was caused by a new coronavirus.

    December 26-30

    Evidence of new virus emerges from Wuhan patient data.

    December 31

    Chinese internet authorities begin censoring terms from social media such as Wuhan Unknown Pneumonia.

    January 1, 2020

    Eight Wuhan doctors who warned about new virus are detained and condemned.

    January 3

    China’s top health authority issues a gag order.

    January 5

    Wuhan Municipal Health Commission stops releasing daily updates on new cases. Continues until January 18.

    January 10

    PRC official Wang Guangfa says outbreak “under control” and mostly a “mild condition”.

    January 12

    Professor Zhang Yongzhen’s lab in Shanghai is closed by authorities for “rectification”, one day after it shares genomic sequence data with the world for the first time.

    January 14

    PRC National Health Commission chief Ma Xiaowei privately warns colleagues the virus is likely to develop into a major public health event.

    January 24

    Officials in Beijing prevent the Wuhan Institute of Virology from sharing sample isolates with the University of Texas.

    February 6

    China’s internet watchdog tightens controls on social media platforms.

    February 9

    Citizen-journalist and local businessman Fang Bin disappears.

    April 17

    Wuhan belatedly raises its official fatalities by 1290.

  20. #13800
    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    Source for that?

    Here's something interesting.

    "A recent Stanford University antibody study found https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...463v1.full.pdf here estimated the fatality rate from the virus is likely 0.1% to 0.2%."
    It may be possible, but since they didn't adjust for age and most deaths are among the elderly there is a large amount of uncertainty. I'm not saying that it is necessarily wrong, or that the rate must be a lot higher - just that we don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    "The study found 42% of the patients were overweight and 53% had hypertension, and the others suffered from a variety of ailments."
    Lots of people are overweight, and have hypertension - especially among the elderly (and also slightly more men).
    The CDC state that more than half have hypertension in the US.

    However, we don't know if everyone with hypertension actually are labelled as having hypertension in the study; and whether it was the same hypertension threshold.
    (How did they do it? Testing for hypertension while patients were in ICU? Relying on medical records that may be inaccurate?)

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