Incoming button bloat in SL

[VinceVega]

Are they out of their minds?!

I have mained a hunter since MoP. First as MM, then Survival and ended up as BM in BFA.
Now between the PVE abilities and active talents, PVP active talents, pet abilities and azerite power, my comfortable keybind setup is FULL. 100% full right now in BFA.

SL will bring 5 (FIVE) more buttons to BM: Hunter's Mark, Killshot, Bloodshed, 2 covenant abilities.
I will replace the azerite power with Hunter's Mark, and I can fit Killshot somewhere. AND THAT'S IT. I have no more room for the other 3 things. Not one free slot.

And no, I can't click on shit. As someone who does raids and pvp, clicking on shit is out of the question.

I have no choice but to look to reroll to something else that either has fewer buttons in BFA, and so can fit in all the new stuff, or just doesn't have a lot of stuff coming in SL. Like for example ret paladin or outlaw rogue, because these guys, to say the least, won't have a problem with button bloat in SL.

Seriously, this is retarded. How exactly does Blizzard expect people to play specs that already have a stupid amount of buttons right now in BFA, like WW monk and feral druid, and which will have even more buttons coming in SL?

Does the dev team realize there is a threshold beyond which controlling the character becomes very uncomfortable and annoying for anyone with only two hands, OR do they think we're all epic clickers?

Go play druid for a while^^

Then go back. You feel much nicer after that

I have to switch around all my bars every-time i change my activity. Because i have no idea where i should put everything.
Numbers 1-12 are nearly all triple (normal, ctrl, alt) set. And on top i have the abilities from the "off" forms...

I just accepted, that i will never be a high PvP Player with my druid ever again. PvE is not that bad because nearly every class only really uses 7 of them. Movement and planing is more important.
PvP is reaction and fully using your toolkit.

[korijenkins]

My only complaint, generally, with new abilities is when they add ones that are functionally useless or do the exact same thing as another ability.

There are plenty of abilities in the game that are just instant cast versions of existing abilities for the class on a cooldown, kinda like fireball and fire blast. Those are the abilities I detest.

[The Butt Witch]

My only complaint, generally, with new abilities is when they add ones that are functionally useless or do the exact same thing as another ability.

There are plenty of abilities in the game that are just instant cast versions of existing abilities for the class on a cooldown, kinda like fireball and fire blast. Those are the abilities I detest.

Oh god. True.

Like BM hunter in SL
Bestial Wrath, Aspect of the Wild, Bloodshed

Press Bestial Wrath to make your pet do more damage, but on a short cd.
Press Aspect of the Wild to make your pet do more damage, but on a long cd.
Press Bloodshed to make your pet do more damage, but on a medium cd.

DEEEEEEEEERRPPPPP!!

[Casperite]

Because WoW players still aren't a hive mind?

Also, as you yourself accidentally stumbled upon, the "WoW players" gestalt consciousness didn't ask for more abilities just for the sake of more abilities but for more depth. Meanwhile let's look at what they gave Warlocks back, for example. Fire-and-forget curses. Now, there's nothing wrong with the concept of the curses per se, they are rather thematic for Warlocks. But had Blizzard truly listened to the community they'd bring them back and modernize their design. Not just bring them back as they were and call it a day.




You just blew some people's minds right there. Or, should I say, you blew the mind of WoW players.

I think people understand it is different players. The point is nothing blizzard does will make everyone happy. There will always be complaints. Did I just blow your mind?

[Schmilblick]

WoW players: Blizz pruned too many spells classes have no depth WoW is mobile game now lmao

Blizz: okay we're unpruning in Shadowlands

WoW players: omg too many spells how am I supposed to play like this

There is a big difference between un-pruning and bloating.

[Ringthane]

WoW players: Blizz pruned too many spells classes have no depth WoW is mobile game now lmao

Blizz: okay we're unpruning in Shadowlands

WoW players: omg too many spells how am I supposed to play like this

This. So much this. It makes you wonder how the developers stay sane.

And if you can't handle five more buttons, you really need to find something simpler to play.

[Zig Zug]

I have mained a hunter since MoP. First as MM, then Survival and ended up as BM in BFA.

Yeah, it's nothing to really worry about.

[Gasparde]

My BM on live currently has 6-7 rotational buttons, depending on talents - even in Shadowlands this will most likely not go over 8 (if it even goes that high).
If I add all my utility spells and cooldowns to that I get up to 18-23, again depending on talents.

Now, that's for PvE only - so in a PvP setting I'm sure you could add a solid 5+ buttons to that depending on how far you'd wanna take things. So let's be generous and say... 30 buttons if you wanna have everything from KC to Dismiss Pet bound. Shadowlands will at most up that number by 3, maybe 4.

So at the very high end we're looking at a possible 10% increase in keybinds, but again, this is if you want to bind everything from Scare Beast to Hunter's Mark. And frankly, if you're at the level of play where you have to have those keys bound... and you can't find room to put 3 more binds on your keyboard... that doesn't sound right. Hell, even if it does, if you're that good of a player and that stuff really matters to you... get a Naga or something like that.

I'm pretty sure for most players all SL will change is... add a bind for Kill Shot, swap your Essence bind for your Covenant ability, use 1 additional bind for the other Covenant ability and talents will most likely replace themselves.

[Erlking]

Problem is there are some specs that feel bare and other specs that already have a full kit. For example UK dk and WW monk both have full kit of abilities, frost dk, fury warr, havoc feels bare. So specs that already have more than enough abilities plus pvp talents plus 2 new covenant abilities plus unpruned abilities it can easily become bloated especially in pvp, where you need every single one of your ability and focus macro, arena 1,2,3 macro.

I feel in pve its not a problem because of the lack of pvp talents and arena macros. What Blizzard should do is remove pvp talents. They are already making some pvp talents part of core abilities.

[The Butt Witch]

My BM on live currently has 6-7 rotational buttons, depending on talents - even in Shadowlands this will most likely not go over 8 (if it even goes that high).
If I add all my utility spells and cooldowns to that I get up to 18-23, again depending on talents.

Now, that's for PvE only - so in a PvP setting I'm sure you could add a solid 5+ buttons to that depending on how far you'd wanna take things. So let's be generous and say... 30 buttons if you wanna have everything from KC to Dismiss Pet bound. Shadowlands will at most up that number by 3, maybe 4.

So at the very high end we're looking at a possible 10% increase in keybinds, but again, this is if you want to bind everything from Scare Beast to Hunter's Mark. And frankly, if you're at the level of play where you have to have those keys bound... and you can't find room to put 3 more binds on your keyboard... that doesn't sound right. Hell, even if it does, if you're that good of a player and that stuff really matters to you... get a Naga or something like that.

I'm pretty sure for most players all SL will change is... add a bind for Kill Shot, swap your Essence bind for your Covenant ability, use 1 additional bind for the other Covenant ability and talents will most likely replace themselves.

You forgot Hunter's Mark. Also the talent Bloodshed, which seems to be in the cookie cutter build for both pve and pve.

You need fast Hunter's Mark for PVP most of all. Clicking on HM in pvp is going to be very yiffy, especially when you want to quickly put in on a rogue about to stealth.

- - - Updated - - -

Speaking of unpruning.

Blizzard: We're going to unprune all classes.
Hunters: Does that mean we get Camouflage back for all specs?
Blizzard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcp4zfkHW-U

[Mehrunes]

I think people understand it is different players. The point is nothing blizzard does will make everyone happy. There will always be complaints. Did I just blow your mind?

There's kinda a difference between what people understand and what they say. The post I replied to flat out addressed the WoW players as some kind of monolith. Because, let me blow your mind in turn, words mean things. A novel idea to be sure, but that's the way things appear to be now. And it did so in order to pretend that the playerbase doesn't know what it wants and just creates issues just for the sake of complaining, because god forbids Blizzard kami sama was ever met with anything but adoration. It's nothing more than a silencing tactic. And it's not even remotely the first thread in which @Mirishka spread that nonsense and in others she worded it in a way that made it even more clear that's what she meant. And the fact that she most likely knows she's actually addressing different people makes it even more disingenuous instead of being the vindicating revelation you thought it to be.

[sam86]

The ones that are complaining are literally bottom of the barrel, like It's okay sir you'll be able to world quest and LFR just fine.

exactly
in fact half of those buttons are either cds that can be macroed (or gcd still there in SL?) or situational that will see 1 in life use in pve
give me more options not less

[Accendor]

Are they out of their minds?!

I have mained a hunter since MoP. First as MM, then Survival and ended up as BM in BFA.
Now between the PVE abilities and active talents, PVP active talents, pet abilities and azerite power, my comfortable keybind setup is FULL. 100% full right now in BFA.

SL will bring 5 (FIVE) more buttons to BM: Hunter's Mark, Killshot, Bloodshed, 2 covenant abilities.
I will replace the azerite power with Hunter's Mark, and I can fit Killshot somewhere. AND THAT'S IT. I have no more room for the other 3 things. Not one free slot.

And no, I can't click on shit. As someone who does raids and pvp, clicking on shit is out of the question.

I have no choice but to look to reroll to something else that either has fewer buttons in BFA, and so can fit in all the new stuff, or just doesn't have a lot of stuff coming in SL. Like for example ret paladin or outlaw rogue, because these guys, to say the least, won't have a problem with button bloat in SL.

Seriously, this is retarded. How exactly does Blizzard expect people to play specs that already have a stupid amount of buttons right now in BFA, like WW monk and feral druid, and which will have even more buttons coming in SL?

Does the dev team realize there is a threshold beyond which controlling the character becomes very uncomfortable and annoying for anyone with only two hands, OR do they think we're all epic clickers?

you need like 5-6 keybinds for high end mythic raiding and high end m+, so no idea what you are talking about.

[The Butt Witch]

exactly
in fact half of those buttons are either cds that can be macroed (or gcd still there in SL?) or situational that will see 1 in life use in pve
give me more options not less

Oh, we got a PVE hero here.
Also no, you can't macro shit as hunter. Absolutely everything is on GCD.

- - - Updated - - -

you need like 5-6 keybinds for high end mythic raiding and high end m+, so no idea what you are talking about.

Another PVE hero.

[Saltysquidoon]

You explicitly mention that you raid in your OP, why would you deride people for addressing your pve concerns in the following thread?

[Flantini]

To play optimally you will have to be good with keybinds and use lots of active abilities. If you don't want that many active abilities, select passive options in the talents/covenants. They may not sim the 100% best, but then again, you aren't a 100% best player so who cares.

Also consider this, as its basically the same as your argument; You: WTH Blizz?! I can't deal with more keybinds! my keyboard is filled to the brim!!! People: Really that's odd, while looking at your keybinds we see a lot of empty potential why don't you use the other binds you have available? You: LOL no! I use a ultra slim keyboard with half the keys broken on it, I shouldn't have to learn how to type and use multiple keybinds just to play a game!! they should cater to me specifically!!

So basically you are the peak of player performance. They should never add any more keybinds than you currently use because that is the max anyone can handle. I think you're looking for a MOBA style game or a console game. Otherwise you'll have to adapt and adjust. P.S. BM has one of the simplest rotations in the game right now so, id say pick an easier class/spec but that might be challenging...maybe DH?

[Knight Meta]

How the heck do people in 2020 struggle with having "too many buttons to press" - I have had 36 action bar clicks available with only my my two thumbs and left hand pinky since MoP. Logitech G13 + Razer Naga solves any and all of whatever imaginary problems you have.

[Velerios]

Are they out of their minds?!

Nope, it's the first time it seems that they finally realised that listening to the 5% who can't use keybinds and people who doesn't know that you are not supposed to put all spells in your bar is not the best solution for the game: finally we can have full bars and spells where we can decide if we use them or not. Having a choice again is the best thing that could happen to wow.

Thanks to people who thinks like you, WoW is in the worst state it ever was: pruning ruined wow more than anything else. WoD was bad, but at least the pruning wasn't so extremely bad as it is now. Classes were playable, and warrior had gladiator stance. So yes, MoP/WoD was better than BfA simply because classes were at least playable. There was nothing to do, but it was at least not the classes fault that the game was this bad. Compared to BfA where classes are so bad that it doesn't matter if the content is good or bad, the game is bad and this will not change. And now they revert the crap we have now: it's still not in an MoP-State of the game, but it's definitively a step in the exactly right direction.

Button bloat is a GOOD thing. People want more, i rather have a spellbook full of spells that i only use sparesly rather than one who is as bare as it is now. Simply don't use them, make keybinds and you have no need to be bothered with them. I personally am happy to put all these new spells back into my bar and hopefully one day don't have even space to put them on the screen. Then the game is finally in a state where it is playable again.

But hey: if you want a buttonless brainless class where you can play with 3-4 buttons, demon hunter is there for you. It even has hunter in it's name!

[The Butt Witch]

You explicitly mention that you raid in your OP, why would you deride people for addressing your pve concerns in the following thread?

Because I don't do only PVE, and it's in PVP that the bloat is most glaring.

[Airlick]

One might almost think the thing called skill exists, and it's also expressed in the ability to handle more than 5 buttons