1. #41121
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    Oh good grief, just withering.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/...is-a-travesty/

    If that article is talking about you, I don't know how you don't just shrivel up into a corn cob.
    Haha, what kind of mindless drone slurps up that propaganda. Just look at their most read stories, it reads like a communist puff piece on Jum Jung Un or something.

  2. #41122
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Until that number starts coming down regularly I don't expect the daily death toll to drop off much.
    Trump disagrees.

    Trump moved the goalposts to "between 75,000 and 100,000" and also blamed China for why his original prediction of 60,000 -- which would have been bigly and yuge -- is no longer possible.

    We’re going to lose anywhere from 75-, 80- to 100,000 people. That’s a horrible thing. We shouldn’t lose one person over this. This should’ve been stopped in China

    I really think the public has been incredible.. that’s one of the reasons we're successful. If you call losing 80- or 90,000 people successful. But it’s one of the reasons that we’re not at the high end of the plane, as opposed to the low end of the plane.

    It’s going up. I used to say 65,000. Now I’m saying 80 [thousand] or 90 [thousand], and it goes up and it goes up rapidly. But it’s still going to be, no matter how you look at it, at the lower end of the plane if we did the shutdown
    Actually, I'll throw this question open to the floor.

    When did Trump say 65,000?

    When did he say 80,000 or 90,000?

    This April 30th article says Trump said 65,000 once, April 29th. I can't find 80,000 at all. Can anyone find it? Can anyone find evidence that what Trump is saying is the truth? It shouldn't be this hard, April 29th to now is four days.

    The question isn't if Trump moved the goalposts. We already know he was forced to. Question is, where did he hide them? He's making claims about what he says, based on...what? Anyone?

  3. #41123
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I saw that and he's full of shit. Also, "as many as" 100k is no longer likely. It will more likely be OVER 100k. At an average of 1k per day (and we are way above that average right now) we will be within a couple thousand of 100k by the end of May. Highly unlikely that this is over by then. The first wave, maybe.

  4. #41124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    I saw that and he's full of shit. Also, "as many as" 100k is no longer likely. It will more likely be OVER 100k. At an average of 1k per day (and we are way above that average right now) we will be within a couple thousand of 100k by the end of May. Highly unlikely that this is over by then. The first wave, maybe.
    Yeah...even if those new daily numbers have shown us the inflection point, we're looking at 130,000. And nobody's willing to take a stab at that second wave that the Flu Klux Klan (best name since Y'all Qaeda) forces by their actions.

  5. #41125
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    I saw that and he's full of shit. Also, "as many as" 100k is no longer likely. It will more likely be OVER 100k. At an average of 1k per day (and we are way above that average right now) we will be within a couple thousand of 100k by the end of May. Highly unlikely that this is over by then. The first wave, maybe.
    According to the MSN virus tracker, over the last week we are closer to 2k a day:

    4/26 (1 week ago): 55,383
    5/3 (today): 68,276

    7 day new deaths: 12,893

    12,893 / 7 = 1,841 a day.

    100,000 - 68,276 = 31,724
    31,734 / 1,841 is about 18 days till 100k deaths at this rate.

    This would be May 21.


    From an anecdotal standpoint, I've talked with a few people in the SE US. Basically people did NOT go to mass on Easter. It seems like a very few high profile people held public services, and that's about it. And as much as things are "open for business" in Georgia, not many people are going out.

    From a business standpoint, it means the opening up of things won't change much - kind of like how the *BIG NEWS* oil deals got crude oil up to the current price of almost $19 a barrel. So for the oil industry, basically the only question left is: how many billions of dollars of grants and loans will the US government spend and which companies will be propped up. Their losses could last quite a while. But with enough government money they could be kept afloat.

    From a virus standpoint: growth of the virus throughout the south is steady but not spiking. I guess this is what compromise looks like. Not enough help to really help the business community much, and not enough safeguards to keep the virus in check. But at least there is SOME business activity, and at least there is a reduction in the virus growth.

    Anecdotally: The pictures of the armed protesters in the Michigan state capital horrified people. They did more to increase support for gun restrictions than anything that is happened in a long time.

    Anecdotally: People think that priests that hold public mass these days are morally equivalent to the priests that had sex with underage altar boys. They are definitely responsible for more deaths.

    The main stream media paints a picture of America that is just plain false. It also is highly anti-America. There are stupid people everywhere. Must we give these people such a huge percentage of our media coverage?

  6. #41126
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    I do think it's telling that Trump, who seems to time and time again hold Biden personally responsible for 17k deaths during the H1N1 pandemic (despite there being only 12.5k in the US), has now just attempted to handwave the "official" US project going from 60k to 90k under his "leadership", a jump of close to double the fake amount he has used against Biden.


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  7. #41127
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I do think it's telling that Trump, who seems to time and time again hold Biden personally responsible for 17k deaths during the H1N1 pandemic (despite there being only 12.5k in the US), has now just attempted to handwave the "official" US project going from 60k to 90k under his "leadership", a jump of close to double the fake amount he has used against Biden.
    He did tell us pretty early on "I don't take responsibility for anything".

  8. #41128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    He did tell us pretty early on "I don't take responsibility for anything".
    Has any cartoonist done Trump dressed like a doctor, on a pile of dead bodies, with a “Mission accomplished” banner over his head?

    I am on a Bush kick tonight... lol
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  9. #41129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Has any cartoonist done Trump dressed like a doctor, on a pile of dead bodies, with a “Mission accomplished” banner over his head?
    I mean...there's this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, of course this one, and my personal favorite this one, but not exactly what you asked for.

  10. #41130
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    According to the MSN virus tracker, over the last week we are closer to 2k a day
    I know. Contrary to the tone of my posts on this matter, I DO try to err on the optimistic side. You'll find posts in my history from a week or two ago saying that 100k will likely be the upper limit, for example. I'm also hopeful that over the course of the next two weeks we WILL see a decline in the number of deaths per day--at least to the point where we're not pinging over 2k for most of the week.

    I think most people here are also aware that the fucking imbeciles we see on the news are the vocal--and sociopathic--minority. Squeaky wheel and all that. But it only takes a handful of people like that in this type of situation to cause a lot of problems. I don't for a moment feel they accurately represent America and I think I can speak for most of the people here when I say they don't think that either. They are, however, the root of a lot of the problems facing America, particularly with respect to this pandemic.

  11. #41131
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    I know. Contrary to the tone of my posts on this matter, I DO try to err on the optimistic side. You'll find posts in my history from a week or two ago saying that 100k will likely be the upper limit, for example. I'm also hopeful that over the course of the next two weeks we WILL see a decline in the number of deaths per day--at least to the point where we're not pinging over 2k for most of the week.
    I try to be optimistic about things for the most part as well. On the other hand, the mainstream media's "Everything is fine, let's get back to work" lies are grating to me. Everything is NOT fine. Yes there is SOME improvement in SOME areas (Louisiana for example). On other hand there are areas where it is getting worse. And we are still averaging over 1800 deaths a day over the course of a week.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    I think most people here are also aware that the fucking imbeciles we see on the news are the vocal--and sociopathic--minority. Squeaky wheel and all that. But it only takes a handful of people like that in this type of situation to cause a lot of problems. I don't for a moment feel they accurately represent America and I think I can speak for most of the people here when I say they don't think that either. They are, however, the root of a lot of the problems facing America, particularly with respect to this pandemic.
    Thank you for this. The mainstream media constantly portraying them as heros and decent Americans is also grating to me. They are neither.

    One of the takeaways from all of this is to remind myself that the mainstream media is so very dishonest. It's not just FOX, it's the whole lot of them. Saying that CNN is better - not as bad as - FOX is not much of an endorsement. I am working hard to not be swayed by what our mainstream media spews out.

  12. #41132
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Apparently Trump sort of pushed Fauci under the bus in his Fox interview? Something to do with him supposedly not getting a warning until the end of January(lol) I believe is what I read.
    I'm sure Fauci will set the record straight when he's testifying before the House.

    Oh. Right. Trump blocked that.

    Okay fine, he'll say something at the next coronavirus briefing. Um...has he been to the last two?

  13. #41133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    From a virus standpoint: growth of the virus throughout the south is steady but not spiking. I guess this is what compromise looks like. Not enough help to really help the business community much, and not enough safeguards to keep the virus in check. But at least there is SOME business activity, and at least there is a reduction in the virus growth.
    This is basically what Sweden is and has been like since the outbreak started. While everything is "life as usual" at face value, real life is far fron usual. People do stay at home a lot more, the service industry has still taken a major toll and we're having high unemployment spikes and closed businesses. The upside is that growth has been stayed linear and the possibility of going out and being social/shopping has made it more bearable for the general populace, as well as easing the burden for some businesses and slowly working towards a herd immunity which will eventually be what's required for this to pass.

    While the hive mind effect still isn't as strong as in e.g. Japan, it's still fairly strong and if the new socially acceptable norm is to be cautious and careful when around other people, a vast majority of us will follow it. Some to a lesser degree, but those are also the ones that will slowly cause the virus to ebb out.

    It's a complex system that seems to work for us, and hopefully it will work out for you as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rugz
    Holes means you have less of a food to plate ratio, you can get more net weight of pancakes into the same volume and area as you could with waffles. Therefore pancakes win.

  14. #41134
    Quote Originally Posted by Kheirn View Post
    It's a complex system that seems to work for us, and hopefully it will work out for you as well.
    Yikes sorry the only people who want to be Sweden is Sweden, we're not doing good but at least we're not Sweden. It's really scary watching a country use see no evil, speak no evil model for a virus.

  15. #41135
    Quote Originally Posted by Kheirn View Post
    This is basically what Sweden is and has been like since the outbreak started. While everything is "life as usual" at face value, real life is far fron usual. People do stay at home a lot more, the service industry has still taken a major toll and we're having high unemployment spikes and closed businesses. The upside is that growth has been stayed linear and the possibility of going out and being social/shopping has made it more bearable for the general populace, as well as easing the burden for some businesses and slowly working towards a herd immunity which will eventually be what's required for this to pass.

    While the hive mind effect still isn't as strong as in e.g. Japan, it's still fairly strong and if the new socially acceptable norm is to be cautious and careful when around other people, a vast majority of us will follow it. Some to a lesser degree, but those are also the ones that will slowly cause the virus to ebb out.

    It's a complex system that seems to work for us, and hopefully it will work out for you as well.
    We won't know for at least a month. Note that there is one HUGE difference between the US and Sweden. The US is MUCH larger than Sweden, so it might work in Sweden and not the US, or the other way around. We won't know for quite a while. For better or for worse, this is the plan we are following.

    From my standpoint, we've chosen our path. We have decided. Now it's time to execute our plans to the best of our ability. The virus moves at its own clip. Looking back, it looks like Mardi Gras caused a HUGE spike, while Easter did not. So based on these data points, it seems like the Lesson of New Orleans has been learned. On the other hand, some of the beach shots show beaches that are QUITE crowded

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Yikes sorry the only people who want to be Sweden is Sweden, we're not doing good but at least we're not Sweden. It's really scary watching a country use see no evil, speak no evil model for a virus.
    We are at least partially following that model.

  16. #41136
    Quote Originally Posted by Kheirn View Post
    This is basically what Sweden is and has been like since the outbreak started. While everything is "life as usual" at face value, real life is far fron usual. People do stay at home a lot more, the service industry has still taken a major toll and we're having high unemployment spikes and closed businesses. The upside is that growth has been stayed linear and the possibility of going out and being social/shopping has made it more bearable for the general populace, as well as easing the burden for some businesses and slowly working towards a herd immunity which will eventually be what's required for this to pass.

    While the hive mind effect still isn't as strong as in e.g. Japan, it's still fairly strong and if the new socially acceptable norm is to be cautious and careful when around other people, a vast majority of us will follow it. Some to a lesser degree, but those are also the ones that will slowly cause the virus to ebb out.

    It's a complex system that seems to work for us, and hopefully it will work out for you as well.
    Issues being that we're still not sure if herd immunity is possible and the idea that a majority of any people will follow that as the new norm is just being naive.
    Last edited by Dontrike; 2020-05-04 at 10:56 AM.

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  17. #41137
    Quote Originally Posted by Kheirn View Post
    This is basically what Sweden is and has been like since the outbreak started. While everything is "life as usual" at face value, real life is far fron usual. People do stay at home a lot more, the service industry has still taken a major toll and we're having high unemployment spikes and closed businesses. The upside is that growth has been stayed linear and the possibility of going out and being social/shopping has made it more bearable for the general populace, as well as easing the burden for some businesses and slowly working towards a herd immunity which will eventually be what's required for this to pass.

    While the hive mind effect still isn't as strong as in e.g. Japan, it's still fairly strong and if the new socially acceptable norm is to be cautious and careful when around other people, a vast majority of us will follow it. Some to a lesser degree, but those are also the ones that will slowly cause the virus to ebb out.

    It's a complex system that seems to work for us, and hopefully it will work out for you as well.
    You do know that herd immunity means hundreds of thousands of people will die right if you don't have a vaccine. You infect everybody (90+%) in in this situation you hope for the best.
    Swedens tactic can only works because it's a large country with a small population (10M) in other words it isn't that densely populated. You aren't getting sick because you aren't being in contact with thousands of people a day (directly and indirectly) which is why the Swedish numbers are relatively low but that also means you aren't building any kind of herd immunity.
    Last edited by ati87; 2020-05-04 at 10:57 AM.

  18. #41138
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    We are at least partially following that model.
    True but thankfully we have some competent governors in blue states with testing and sensible policies going on however limited.

  19. #41139
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    We won't know for at least a month. Note that there is one HUGE difference between the US and Sweden. The US is MUCH larger than Sweden, so it might work in Sweden and not the US, or the other way around. We won't know for quite a while. For better or for worse, this is the plan we are following.

    From my standpoint, we've chosen our path. We have decided. Now it's time to execute our plans to the best of our ability. The virus moves at its own clip. Looking back, it looks like Mardi Gras caused a HUGE spike, while Easter did not. So based on these data points, it seems like the Lesson of New Orleans has been learned. On the other hand, some of the beach shots show beaches that are QUITE crowded

    - - - Updated - - -



    We are at least partially following that model.
    I would love to see some research done on the spring break beach goers. Have not heard much about huge spikes from them being there. Maybe in open air spaces with high amounts of UV it doesnt transmit that well.

  20. #41140
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    Various news sources, including Axios, have pointed to the biggest obstacle to the next coronavirus relief bill.

    McConnell has said that no such bill will exist, unless it includes provisions that protect businesses from lawsuits when their workers or customers get sick.

    Pelosi objects to this, saying

    Especially now, we have every reason to protect our workers and our patients in all of this. So we would not be inclined to be supporting any immunity from liability.
    McConnell wants businesses open, even if they're not safe, and rather than see to it they become safe, simply says "you can't sue if it's not safe". I believe he, and the Party of Trump he's chosen to become, will defend this with "the cure is worse than the disease" and other deflections, but leave out the part that unsafe companies will make people sick and possibly die. Perhaps McConnell and Pelosi will find a middle ground, such as "a company that demonstrably takes steps to make itself safe, having done a certain amount of work to make itself safe, can't be sued when some dumbass customer breaks the rules". In particular, I don't like the implications for unemployment if McConnell's idea goes forth. Specifically, if a business that's not safe opens and tells its workers to return to the unsafe location, forcing the worker to choose between quitting and losing unemployment, or going to an unsafe location for work and risking their health and the health of their family.

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