Ouch! There's a new bug going around.

[Themius]

themius has an irrational hatred of bees.

I do not...and the facts are just the facts.

Honey bees used for farming (and those now in the wild in America) are european honey bees

They lack varying tongue lengths they CANNOT POLLINATE MANY PLANTS DUE TO THIS they frequently leave an area before fully visiting every plant and they are extremely good as clinging onto pollen to bring back to the hive WHICH MEANS less pollen spreads between plants.

Because they are so numerous they starve native bee populations to death, which is a problem as European honey bees cannot reach nectar as efficiently, hold onto pollen too well, and move on too quickly

This is just fact... if you have a problem with it, take it up with nature?

The native bee population needs protecting from the invasive species for the reasons listed above, what is hard to understand?

I am talking about honey bees, those wild honey bee hives, the European one sneed to be culled. If they aren't, many species of flowers European honey bees cannot pollinate and native bees don't exist to pollinate after being starved to death will dwindle and die, and risk major ecological problems for other animals.

I do not have an irrational hatred of bees... I have a sensible predisposition for native bee populations over invasive honey bees.

The trend of hobby beekeeping has led to plummeting native bee populations in some areas that already have issues without hobbyist getting involved.

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The massive death rate of nees must be reassuring; Last year, 40% of honey-bee colonies in the US died

You realise that invasive honey bees directly lead to potential extinction of native bee populations that are integral for the ecosystem of North America right?

neither of you are actually addressing the facts I am laying out here

Please address these points:

1) European Honey bees are an invasive non-native species of bees that are not equipped to handle pollinating plants in North America. Due to slow adaptation, and almost no variation they cannot reach nectar in many plants.

2) European Honey bees have a tendency to not visit every plant in a field unlike native bees here.

3) European honey bees are extraordinary at holding onto pollen which leads to LESS POLLEN SPREADING FROM PLANT TO PLANT

4) European Honey bees are so numerous that when introduced they ultimately starve native bee populations to death.

So we have a bee, that lacks variation, is slow to adapt, straight up can't pollinate some plants, doesn't visit every plant in a field, doesn't spread pollen as well, and is leading to the collapse of native bee populations.

IT IS A QUANTIFIABLE INVASIVE SPECIES.

My wanting to keep that invasive species in check is not irrational...

Unless you think driving native bee populations into extinction, for a bee that doesn't pollinate well in North America, which will lead to many plants not getting pollinated at all as European honey bees lack variation to do the workwhich ultimately leads to those plants becoming less or going extinct, which ultimately leads to issues further down the line with other animals that eat those plants that can't grow, because the bees we have are an invasive species that can't adapt and has no variation and lacks the ability to spread its pollen.

It is a major major issue that people do not know shit about, and every time people bring it up, some people like you are like "what how can you hate bees dude, bees are like pollinators man"

Yeah they are but I am very specifically talking about a particular bee used in farming which are non-native and invasive and so numerous.

[Logwyn]

... or, you could just burn their nests.

When you go do it. Can you please videotape it and put it on youtube?

[breadisfunny]

the only invasive species of bees is african killer bees. yes those need to be terminated. they aren't even natural. they were the result of a crossbreeding attempt that got out of control in brazil.

[Tuor]

When you go do it. Can you please videotape it and put it on youtube?

Well, there are other ways to do it, authorities are using a feromone to atract the wasps and then they use a poison, not mine, but found these videos on youtube, but they in portuguese sadly.


This nest was found in a school, the removal of it was done after classes ended that day.

Just like in the first video they used poison.

[Amerissis]

...

I have a question. Why do European bees work fine in Europe and not in America? All due to different kind of plants, or?

[Themius]

I have a question. Why do European bees work fine in Europe and not in America? All due to different kind of plants, or?

Different plants are one issue, but Europe has other native bees that do a great job of pollinating. There are lot of different bees in Europe, but the specific one I am speaking about is the European honey bee, Apis mellifera which is a problem.

There are some 25k types of bees, but humans have taken the Apis mellifera, farmed them, and then hobbyist do the same, and so many get released into the wild that we have created a serious imbalance of bees leading to starvation.

The other types of bees at least in the case of the US (and likely the rest of the world) are very numerous and tend to change quickly.

Another problem to consider is that other species of bees aren't exactly so massive. Bumblebees live in colonies less than 400 usually while European honey bees can be as huge as 50,000. They need so much pollen, and they hold on to too much pollen starving other bees and then hurting chances of what pollen they can get from spreading to other plants.

We need diversity of bee types in a proper balance so things don't go out of control, European Honey bees are more or less fine, just not when we unnaturally make them the gold standard bee. People think of bees and honey, but that's only about 10 species of bees, the vast vast majority of bees do not produce honey.

Now you have companies trying to boost the numbers of bumblebees and solitary bees specifically for pollination.

Different plants
Far too numerous
European bees are fine, only the European honey bee is the problem

The different plant issue, is a problem for European honey bees in general no matter where they are, unless I guess all plants have easily accessible nectar that works perfectly for their particular tongue length.

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the only invasive species of bees is african killer bees. yes those need to be terminated. they aren't even natural. they were the result of a crossbreeding attempt that got out of control in brazil.

An invasive species is an organism that causes ecological or economic harm in a new environment where it is not native.

that is literally the definition of an invasive species

European honey bees are not native
European honey bees Cause ecological, and economic harm
European honey bees starve native bees to death, which are better pollinators

What is up with the love affair for one species of 25k species of bees? This love of this one type of bee is why all the other bees are suffering.

You have companies now trying to use and boost bumblebee and solitary bee numbers and use them for commercial POLLINATION BECAUSE honey bees are not great pollinators.

They move on before they finish, their tongues do not vary , and THEY HOLD ONTO POLLEN TOO WELL WHICH MEANS LESS TRAVELS BETWEEN PLANTS

Why is it simple logic is being ignored here?

Like being a contrarian for contrarian sake is foolish. These are the facts...

But as this crisis has unfolded, public attention has consistently fixated on the honeybee — leaving other more vulnerable species to suffer in the dark.

The issue may be a lack of familiarity with bee diversity — or, better put, an over-familiarity with a certain species. When we say “honeybee,” rest assured we’re all picturing the same thing — the black- and yellow-striped insect on the cereal box. This is Apis mellifera, or the European honeybee and they are but one of a legion of species.

The multiplicity of bees is astounding. There are more than 20,000 different species displaying a range of colors: everything from metallic blue-green to red-and-blackbeauties resembling wasps. Most are solitary, not hive-dwellers, occupying dirt or wood and some bees line their nests with a plastic-like excretion. Only seven species of bees make honey.

Honeybees may be insects, but when domesticated, they function as livestock. The European honeybee was first introduced to North America by settlers of the continent in the early 1600s. Native Americans existed for centuries without honeybees, relying on other pollinators to rear their crops. Today, honeybees can even be considered an invasive species in some places.

All the focus on honeybees overlooks other important pollinators, such as bumblebees, many of which are experiencing severe die-offs, some as much as 96 percent of their population. At least one North American species is presumed extinct, while another, the rusty patched bumblebee, Bombus affinis, has been added to theU.S. Fish and Wildlife Service’s endangered species list. It’s the first bee in the continental U.S. to be given protections, although the IUCN lists several bees ascritically endangered, and more may need help in the near future.

Bumblebees are especially important pollinators due to their size and extra fuzziness, and some have evolved special relationships with flowering plants. Tomatoes, for example, rely on buzz pollination, a behavior done only by certain bees. This is when a bumblebee bites a flower, then vibrates to shake out the pollen.

[Trunksee]

Different plants are one issue, but Europe has other native bees that do a great job of pollinating. There are lot of different bees in Europe, but the specific one I am speaking about is the European honey bee, Apis mellifera which is a problem.

There are some 25k types of bees, but humans have taken the Apis mellifera, farmed them, and then hobbyist do the same, and so many get released into the wild that we have created a serious imbalance of bees leading to starvation.

The other types of bees at least in the case of the US (and likely the rest of the world) are very numerous and tend to change quickly.

Another problem to consider is that other species of bees aren't exactly so massive. Bumblebees live in colonies less than 400 usually while European honey bees can be as huge as 50,000. They need so much pollen, and they hold on to too much pollen starving other bees and then hurting chances of what pollen they can get from spreading to other plants.

We need diversity of bee types in a proper balance so things don't go out of control, European Honey bees are more or less fine, just not when we unnaturally make them the gold standard bee. People think of bees and honey, but that's only about 10 species of bees, the vast vast majority of bees do not produce honey.

Now you have companies trying to boost the numbers of bumblebees and solitary bees specifically for pollination.

Different plants
Far too numerous
European bees are fine, only the European honey bee is the problem

The different plant issue, is a problem for European honey bees in general no matter where they are, unless I guess all plants have easily accessible nectar that works perfectly for their particular tongue length.

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that is literally the definition of an invasive species

European honey bees are not native
European honey bees Cause ecological, and economic harm
European honey bees starve native bees to death, which are better pollinators

What is up with the love affair for one species of 25k species of bees? This love of this one type of bee is why all the other bees are suffering.

You have companies now trying to use and boost bumblebee and solitary bee numbers and use them for commercial POLLINATION BECAUSE honey bees are not great pollinators.

They move on before they finish, their tongues do not vary , and THEY HOLD ONTO POLLEN TOO WELL WHICH MEANS LESS TRAVELS BETWEEN PLANTS

Why is it simple logic is being ignored here?

Like being a contrarian for contrarian sake is foolish. These are the facts...

I completely get you point here and its 100% valid as i raise bees and yes there is an issue with european bees. The problem is is that asian giant hornets are not pick with which kind of bees they attack. Its not good in any way shape or forum to have another predator to pollinators with the current situation with the bee population.

[Themius]

I completely get you point here and its 100% valid as i raise bees and yes there is an issue with european bees. The problem is is that asian giant hornets are not pick with which kind of bees they attack. Its not good in any way shape or forum to have another predator to pollinators with the current situation with the bee population.

Well it is a good thing I said giant hornets create a new problem.

[Trunksee]

Well it is a good thing I said giant hornets create a new problem.

Yes but this is exactly how Australia ended up with all of its problems. Assuming one invasive species can control another. All it does is further intensify the original problem.

[Amerissis]

...

Damn, never thought I’d learn something on these forums. Very interesting! Thanks for answering.

[Fencers]

Nature continues to get me fucked up.

[Shadowferal]

I recall my bro sun bathing surrounded by honey-suckle...bumblebees all around him..

I also recall the alarm my neighbor had when he spotted a beehive on a nearby tree. Upon seeing a couple bees alight near me, I pointed out to him the light brown color that was indicative of the non-aggressive honeybee and it was nothing to worry about. ("It's good for the flowers..")

[Themius]

I recall my bro sun bathing surrounded by honey-suckle...bumblebees all around him..

I also recall the alarm my neighbor had when he spotted a beehive on a nearby tree. Upon seeing a couple bees alight near me, I pointed out to him the light brown color that was indicative of the non-aggressive honeybee and it was nothing to worry about. ("It's good for the flowers..")

There're some 20000 types of bees, that are only 7-10 honeybee varieties, so if it was indeed a honey bee, that is indicative of the problem.

If they were indeed honeybees they're "okay" for the flowers, but not all flowers, and as I keep mentioning due to the way they capture nectar they are not great at spread pollen.

[draynay]

I'm a day late, have people already pointed out how ridiculous and sensationalist this article is?

From what I know, hearing from an expert who was consulted on the incident last year, eradication of the wasps was apparently successful as no further sightings have occurred in the past six months.

[zEmini]

Kill them all. Every last one of them. Then go after other hornets and yellow jackets.

[freezion]

Damn, never thought I’d learn something on these forums. Very interesting! Thanks for answering.

Domesticated Honey bees and domesticated bumblebees is even an issue for wild bees in europe.

We have wild honeybees (and plenty of bumblebees) in europe, but the domesticated strains thats used for beekeeping/horticulture outcompete the local and wild geno/phenotypes of the same bees due to their highly generalist behaviour. They are subject to parasites as well, due to the unnaturally large hive-sizes, which are spread to the wild counterparts.

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Kill them all. Every last one of them. Then go after other hornets and yellow jackets.

Aside from invasive species, then hornets and wasps are important pest controllers in nature (as well as mild pollinators).

[Logwyn]

Yes but this is exactly how Australia ended up with all of its problems. Assuming one invasive species can control another. All it does is further intensify the original problem.

Always reminds me of this Simpson episode...

[Doctor Amadeus]

Now if we had built a wall...

[PACOX]

I have a question. Why do European bees work fine in Europe and not in America? All due to different kind of plants, or?

The answer to your question is in the question itself.

European honey bees are adapted to European flora. They can thrive in the America's but not as beneficial to the American flora while pushing out native bee species that evolved along side American plant life.

Wild European honey bees are definitely considered an invasive species in the America's where can and do drive out native
pollinators without making up for the absence of the native species. Natives nectar eaters (bees, birds) die, native flora die, consequently invasive flora thrive, you still get your wild honey though...

[Shadowferal]

pfft...as long as they pollinate.