Chronicles doesn't matter.

[DemonHunter18]

Blizz story doesn't matter, it is a jumbled inconsistent mess whether it is the game,the books, the comics. Structure and most importantly consistency is necessary for a good story, but since blizz decided to follow rule of cool all they produce is superficial meaningless drivel.

no kidding.

they can't keep their lore straight.

you know that part where Azshara held tsunami??

1. WotA trilogy - she used one hand and in other wine
2. Legion - she used that scepter which was one of the artifacts for healer
3. Warbringers: Azshara - she used her two hands



or how Tichondrius was fighting during WotA but in the most detailed version of WotA event (trilogy books) he didn't even appear.

[StillMcfuu]

Best thing to do is if Chronicles is the soul source of information, it's best to take it with a grain of salt. If it contradicts another source of lore, I'd disregard chronicles for the time being.

[Combatbutler]

Best thing to do is if Chronicles is the soul source of information, it's best to take it with a grain of salt. If it contradicts another source of lore, I'd disregard chronicles for the time being.

You can literally discard anything, because nothing has any basis and will be rewritten in the spur of the moment. The game is a very bad source for lore, due to its very make up and ties to two factions all pretty much doing the same stuff simultaneously, the books are inconsistent and igbored, same goes for the comics and the one thing that was meant to bring in the necessary structure to deal with the mess they created over the years is being thrown under the bus as well.

With blizz approach, their story is pretty much on par with bad fanfiction

[Aucald]

True but that has only made it more volatile in terms of lore. I mean if we use Before the Storm's canon "lying thoughts" as a comparison it could just as easily turn out all the information in the Chronicle is actually worthless/made up by the Titan's own logic if revealed as such later on.

I've contended that the oft-touted "lying thoughts" isn't really an explicit retcon inasmuch as it is an implicit refactoring of what we thought a particular passage meant in hindsight, factoring in new information we were previously not privy to. Given that Mueh'zala was actually responsible for forcing Vol'jin's hand in promoting Sylvanas to Warchief, it may be that at that time Sylvanas didn't know a third party had acted on her behalf, and that she didn't want the position at the time either (preferring to pursue her ultimate goals from the shadows as she professed).

People jump on the retcon bandwagon a bit too easily, in my view. This is not to say WoW has never endured retcons, it certainly has, but every single revelation or body-swerve in the story isn't tantamount to a retcon, either.

[Darknessvamp]

I've contended that the oft-touted "lying thoughts" isn't really an explicit retcon inasmuch as it is an implicit refactoring of what we thought a particular passage meant in hindsight, factoring in new information we were previously not privy to. Given that Mueh'zala was actually responsible for forcing Vol'jin's hand in promoting Sylvanas to Warchief, it may be that at that time Sylvanas didn't know a third party had acted on her behalf, and that she didn't want the position at the time either (preferring to pursue her ultimate goals from the shadows as she professed).

People jump on the retcon bandwagon a bit too easily, in my view. This is not to say WoW has never endured retcons, it certainly has, but every single revelation or body-swerve in the story isn't tantamount to a retcon, either.

I'll agree with you on that she likely didn't know who it was telling Vol'jin to make her Warchief but her thoughts still remain pretty suspect considering she supposedly had knowledge of, has been in communication with and has apparently been planning with the Jailer since Edge of Night or from some time after it and her being Warchief was somehow one of his whims. Especially when they want people to believe that the Broken Shore's outcome, Vol'jin being mortally wounded, was somehow orchestrated as part of his plan which she supposedly has been privy to from Edge of Night or at least some point after until Legion and not to mention that her actions in Stormheim were also somehow related to that plan. It's just odd that after Legion she would be cursing said plan in her own thoughts that she herself would have known about for some time or at least been explained to how her being Warchief contributed.

I mean they were trying to make out that this plan of the Jailer's and Sylvanas' involvement seem like something that has long been in the making and not something that has just popped up in BfA, even though it is. Heck I mean they can't even conclude properly whether the Burning of Teldrassil was actually something that Sylvanas planned and set out to do as part of the overarching plan or was a spur in the moment action because of one elf. Not to mention:

Vol’jin had been someone she respected, although they had clashed on occasion. He lacked the abrasiveness that so often characterized orc leadership. And she had been genuinely sorry he had fallen—and not just because of the responsibility he had placed on her head.

If she had been planning on killing en masse in order to obtain souls to feed to the Maw why would she be feeling sorry for Vol'jin dying? Especially when his death contributes to the plan as well. It's just a mess as a result of retcons to be frank, even with the possibility of it having a new context/perspective due to new lore.

[DemonHunter18]

@Darksom a very good example.

Books shouldn't be made because they massively contradict the game and make characters act out of character.

I will never accept Chronicles as the main canon because they are vague asf since it was written from PoV that makes no sense.

That's why I brought up Stormrage brothers as an example.

If Eonar thinks they aren't blood brothers but the game literally tells you they are since WC3 days then I will just laugh at it.

But Blizzard writers aren't really that stupid to retcon that... at least I hope so.

I play the game.

Game will always be >>> books

Especially when they are written by newbies who never heard of Warcraft.

Btw I just accidentally saw you quoting me because I was offline.

You are on my ignore list, sorry, since you were very aggressive last time for no reason so I won't see you quoting me so no need to bother.

No hard feelings.

[huth]

If she had been planning on killing en masse in order to obtain souls to feed to the Maw why would she be feeling sorry for Vol'jin dying? Especially when his death contributes to the plan as well. It's just a mess as a result of retcons to be frank, even with the possibility of it having a new context/perspective due to new lore.

She's perfectly happy to dump and kill her loyal champion after BfA. I doubt she'd have any issue with Vol'jin. You can still be sorry about somebody dying even if it fits your plans perfectly.

- - - Updated - - -

People keep saying that "Chronicle" has been retconned many times now - but what exactly was retconned from the "Chronicle" series? It was recently demoted from reference status to perspective-based information (e.g. the Titan's perspective), but that still puts "Chronicle" on the same level as the existing novels, short stories, and comics insofar as canon goes. "Chronicle" is still canon, and still very informative given it's comprehensive nature. Same as the UVG before it, really; which was chock full of lore.

I wouldn't agree that it was demoted from reference status... i consider it more of a limitation in scope of those references. I.e. he Chronicles only contain information that the Titans could have obtained, but still has reference status for this information.

[Nefarious Tea]

They've also said that Chronicles is only from one perspective so there is still a lot going on that isn't illustrated.

You and I both know that's bullshit and that BLizzard straight up never bothered to double check, then gave that garbage "point of view" response when people called them out on on fucking up something THEY NEVER SHOULD HAVE BECAUSE OF THE CHRONICLE

That was the whole point of Chronicle: an incontrovertible source for the truth of lore so that retcons will never need to happen and everyone can keep the lore straight and organized. Well they fucked that real quick after selling three volumes of it, didn't they.

Their argument is LITERALLY the same as Obi-Wan's bullshit and inane Darth Vader killed Anakin Skywalker "from a certain point of view"

No, George Lucas retconned it and there was no valid explanation so he handwaved and hoped people would ignore it.

[DemonHunter18]

Retconning Illidan was necessary if you look at BC and how dumb things were. Chronicles does matter, I get its trendy to hate on it right now but...it still matters "Titans POV" or not.

Just because it's bad that doesn't mean it has to be retconned.

Yeah,TBC was garbage but there was no reason to pull the He was secretly sending Demon Hunters to Legion worlds.

It sounds better than TBC sure but in order to create more consistencieses, they could have just pulled the The blow that Arthas gave to Illidan had its mark on his mind so when he died, his mind was cleared up or something.

Sounds like shit but at least we wouldn't get the I was this close at beating Legion thing.

[kendro1200]

The creator of lore of Warcraft, Chris Metzen, called the Chronicles the Bible of Warcraft. Do not argue with God.

Then after he left they immediately started to retcon it, because the only true story about Blizzard's story telling is that the only thing that is actually happening is what is going on in the present. Anything that has already happened, actually hasn't, and anything that might happen, probably won't. Their repeated retcons means that no lore is cannon, because the cannon is only beholden to whoever has the pen at the moment.
That being said, I liked the possibilities that Chronicles opened up, and I liked the insights into Metzen's world building and intent. What has become plainly obvious over the years is that Metzen was a very passionate person, and his passion was the sole source of his creations. When his passions waned or changed, his creations followed. That is why all of the Blizzard stories moved heavily towards redemption arcs, rebellious angst and anger of youth faded away, hard work was rewarded with wealth, and so the world went from a dark, scary place to a bright one filled with hope and happy endings.
In the end though, the company has set a precedent that their writers do not need to respect past work in efforts for "cinematic moments" and headlines. I do not expect that to change, or for them to even retain the attention span to tell a cohesive narrative beyond a simple questline.

[Varitok]

if the Chronicles contradict the game then I'll take the game any day.

The game contradicts itself too.

[DemonHunter18]

The game contradicts itself too.

Ofc l never denied that and will scrutinize them even then.

[Varitok]

They've also said that Chronicles is only from one perspective so there is still a lot going on that isn't illustrated.

That was said after the third installment so they can discount any inaccuracies in the future lore of the game. It was in no way planned. The titans knowing about things that happened after they were imprisoned/dead is pretty impressive. Considering Eonar and the like didn't know what was going on while trapped.

It's just sad because Chronicle was a chance to retcon and solidify a course for the lore and stick to it. To finally unify the games constant misunderstandings and contradictions but they go on to just throw that in the bin immediately.

[Nnyco]

Obviously they retconned illidan, tbc lore was a shitshow.

[Nuggsy]

The creator of lore of Warcraft, Chris Metzen, called the Chronicles the Bible of Warcraft. Do not argue with God.

Yeah and then Blizzard proceeded to burn the bible by saying it was 'all from the titan's perspective' and thus making it unreliable as a source for the TRUE, unfiltered lore which is what the chronicles should have been. It was going to be nice to have all the lore officially in one place after all the 'well this is cannon but this isn't' and the 'we retconned this because some bs reason' but instead we get this 'well it's from a certain point of view' so it doesn't 'limit them' later on IE: Blizzard is creatively bankrupt and can't be bothered to make new lore or follow what they have so they need the ability to go back and retcon when and where they see fit.

The chronicles were such a let down. Glad I only bought the first volume so I didn't waste -too- much money.

[Mace]

The creator of lore of Warcraft, Chris Metzen, called the Chronicles the Bible of Warcraft. Do not argue with God.

Thou shalt not argue with God

[Musta]

Retconning Illidan was necessary if you look at BC and how dumb things were. Chronicles does matter, I get its trendy to hate on it right now but...it still matters "Titans POV" or not.

I dont think Illidan was retconned, it was more like to expanded and explained to close the plot hole.

[Magical Mudcrab]

People keep saying that "Chronicle" has been retconned many times now - but what exactly was retconned from the "Chronicle" series? It was recently demoted from reference status to perspective-based information (e.g. the Titan's perspective), but that still puts "Chronicle" on the same level as the existing novels, short stories, and comics insofar as canon goes. "Chronicle" is still canon, and still very informative given it's comprehensive nature. Same as the UVG before it, really; which was chock full of lore.

I think that's sort of the problem though. If memory serves, Chronicles was marketed as the definitive guide to WoW lore, but we've seen that it's not always accurate. Especially with what was revealed in the 2019 Blizzcon, that Chronicles is from the Titan's PoV, they've established it's written from an unreliable source so they have an out when they want to disregard what Chronicles says.

[Mehrunes]

Retconning Illidan was necessary if you look at BC and how dumb things were. Chronicles does matter, I get its trendy to hate on it right now but...it still matters "Titans POV" or not.

Retcons are never "necessary". Trying to patch dumb plot elements up with dumb tools like retcons not only doesn't fix the dumb, it compounds it and lampshades it.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Retconning Illidan was necessary if you look at BC and how dumb things were.

I don't disagree that TBC had a lackluster story, and I think if you asked 100 players why we killed Illidan, 100 of them wouldn't rightly know; however, I don't think the retcon really changed much. He was given some expansion on his actions behind-the-scenes and some motivations, but he was still a slave-owning tyrant.