Every rogue covenant ability is BAD, and I'd rather have none.

[Radazar]

I mean, conceptually those three covenant abilities fit rogues very well, I just think what they actually do is a bit off right now. The Night Fae one might be my favorite, but if I'm totally honest I would rather be a regular move on a cd that costs energy rather than it be another ST dot finisher. The Venthyr one is probably gonna change in some way or another but I don't think it should be limited to stealth only, and if it is, it better be something really badass as you won't use it that much (unless if it works in dance for sub). I really have to see the Maldraxxus ability in action to actually give an opinion on it cause the tooltip currently is a mess.

Even if it's the most "complex" the Kyrian ability might actually be my least favorite. Both for the fact that like you said Kyrian's don't really fit rogues that well, and that I feel it will really break the flow of combat on all three specs in a negative way. I guess if you want to RP as some sort of assassin sent by the Church to do God's will, maybe Kyrian could fit that kind of rogue I guess.

i would hope the venthyr would work with dance would be strange if it didn't, i don't see assassination picking it just because it changes your poison to do shadow damage. im waiting to see the upgrades for the covenant abilities, right now they only have the Kyrian ones which makes it look alot better than its base

All i know is im picking my covenant based on what i feel fits my chosen class/spec, not on which skill is the best.

[Zyky]

Well, numbers are one thing but none of the 4 covenant abilities look exactly "fun." Right now the only one that will change the rotation in anyway is the Kyrian one, and even so, it's just gonna be solved by a weak aura and lead to awkward moments in combat trying to get the right CPs. None of the other abilities are exactly inspired, even if they end up being powerful.

If you don't think Bone Spike doesn't look fun and engaging, I don't know what else to tell you lol.

[Saltysquidoon]

If you don't think Bone Spike doesn't look fun and engaging, I don't know what else to tell you lol.

We'll need to see it in action because the way the tooltip is written right now doesn't really seem to make sense.

[FelPlague]

Kinda creepy but okay.

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They can call it Double-Marked For Death.

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I... have a fanbase?

I sometimes go weeks/months without visiting MMO-C, and yet I have subscribers.

That's cool. That made my day.

I
I think you confuse famous with infamous. You don't have fans, you have people who are sick of seeing you.

[thottstation]

I
I think you confuse famous with infamous. You don't have fans, you have people who are sick of seeing you.

As far as I know, the total count of people here who even recognize my name is: 1

(Unless there's some secret hidden forum for MMO Premium members who talk about ecelebs in this community. I'm honored that you think I qualify.)

"Hating comics is good. Hating them is gold. You cannot have hate without passion. The worst reaction from our audience would be indifference."


When people share their thoughts and feelings, the worst thing is not having them be considered, or even heard. Knowing that there's people here (possibly more than one, anyway) who not only scrutinize what I say, but remember the things I said years ago is... heartwarming. The idea that my meager opinions have been seared on some people's minds is wonderfully flattering. I've spoken, and it's touched people.

And thanks for linking that thread from 2014. It was lovely reading my old posts and comments. I'd long since forgotten them! It's like seeing your old WoW screencaps; Brings out a smile, and a fond sigh. Ah, memories...

[Twdft]

I'm sure some folks will find this one enjoyable, as it does provide some variance to the rotation. However, it does have some rather adverse interactions with several rogue abilities and procs that generate multiple combo points, and can frequently mean you "miss" your anima charged point, and have to wait until next cycle to try again.

Looks like a great way to renew bleeds to me:

You have 2 CP, charge one of them via eching reprimand, get 3 more CP, envenom to 0, garrote now you have 1 and then rupture with that 1 counting as if you did a 7 CP rupture. Sounds really nice.

[shoegazing]

the problem seems to be with most people is the abilities are not flashy, you even said so now, it doesn't matter if the damage is good. to me the abilities fit, well besides the Kyrian, they seem like a stretch but then again they seem to be about holy and good which dose not fit rogues at all.

That is literally the exact opposite of the problem.

I play a sneaky Rogue. My spec is literally called "SUBTLETY".

I do not want this gaudy, hamfisted garbage polluting my elegant, understated Rogue.

I am utterly sick of how every nu-WoW ability is designed like "your character leaps into the air while shredding on a flying-V guitar and explodes in a shadow nova into 50 anima infused shadow clones that each does a double backflip from the shadow realm to blast your enemies with totally radical energy!!!!111"

It's DISGUSTING to me. The design is actually horrid.

[Saltysquidoon]

That is literally the exact opposite of the problem.

I PLAY A SNEAKY ROGUE. MY SPEC IS LITERALLY CALLED "SUBTLETY".

I DO NOT WANT THIS FLASHY, FISHER-PRICE GARBAGE POLLUTING MY BEAUTIFUL ROGUE.

I am utterly sick of how every nu-WoW ability is designed like "your character leaps into the air while shredding on a flying-V guitar and explodes in a shadow nova into 50 anima infused shadow clones that each does a double backflip from the shadow realm to blast your enemies with totally radical energy!!!!111"

It's DISGUSTING to me. The design is actually horrid.

You could always play sub in classic, plenty of non-flashy white hits in that build and you can even take improved gouge.

[shoegazing]

You could always play sub in classic, plenty of non-flashy white hits in that build and you can even take improved gouge.

wow that never occurred to me thanks for the helpful advice!!!11

(I'm an arena player, buddy. I'm already playing classic. It's a nice relief from garbage nu-WoW but I want to queue some 3s with my buddies and get my fix. I miss Cata/MoP/WoD Subtlety that's my ideal of a Rogue.)

[Syce]

I'm not sure why people seem to always come to these final consensus when the expansion is STILL IN ALPHA stage. A LOT will change before the release.

[StillMcfuu]

Or four rogues suddenly de-stealth and start using signature rogue AoE moves (Killing Spree, Fan of Knives, Shuriken Storm) against the target.
Snip

This just sounds like the Monk's Venthyr ability.

If I had to re-do some of these.

Kyrian: Instead of requiring getting to an exact amount, instead if you do a max CP move it adds +2 to the move 7 or 8 CP depending on talents. But if you don't do a full CP move, IE if you are doing a 4CP move, it subtracts 1CP from that move. This way you'll either occasionally burn overcap a CP or you'll need to drop a -1 CP move.

Venthyr: The move should add a short term bleed on use (think Warrior talent) and the poison should be in addition to Instant.

The Necrolord: This one seems pretty alright, although I'd like to see it having an AOE mechanic because none of the other Covenant's cover that aspect. I also think this will get a cooldown and possibly a hard cap on stacking damage (unless it gets a 1 min cool down, then leave the damage stack unlimited.)

Nightfae: It's an execute... DOT. This seems too weak to go live unless it ticks massive damage, but it doesn't seem to. They'll need something else, but there is no official word on the ability so it's likely it will be a reworked sepsis or something else entirely. I have an issue with executes as they really only do anything in specific circumstances, unless they are given multiple procs and other openings. It would feel super shitty to have this as an ability and basically never use it unless in raid/dungeon.

[Segus1992]

Okay, well, we're still in Alpha and it could change. We haven't seen all the abilities yet, so don't pass judgement just yet.

Lastly, if none of them appeal to you once the xpac launches, play another class? There's plenty more to choose from. I don't know what else to tell you?

Saying "I want something cool, fun and amazing for rogues!" Does literally nothing. All of those are subjective, and gives no constructive feedback to anyone.

Why is subjective feedback bad? What the hell? How can you be objective about this? "The abilities technically have few events occurring and should therefore be made more complex"?

Also, the "go play something else" is objectively useless feedback. Your post offers far less than the OP's does. The best feedback that can be given on the Covenant abilities is that they're fun/boring - because that's what Blizzard wants them to be thinking about.

[Radazar]

That is literally the exact opposite of the problem.

I play a sneaky Rogue. My spec is literally called "SUBTLETY".

I do not want this gaudy, hamfisted garbage polluting my elegant, understated Rogue.

I am utterly sick of how every nu-WoW ability is designed like "your character leaps into the air while shredding on a flying-V guitar and explodes in a shadow nova into 50 anima infused shadow clones that each does a double backflip from the shadow realm to blast your enemies with totally radical energy!!!!111"

It's DISGUSTING to me. The design is actually horrid.

if you dont like the design then might i suggest playing another class? Sub will never go back to what it was on classic, and with good reason, it had no class identity besides being an annoying pvp spec with way to much cc.

[Mibzo]

Sometimes you might be fighting more than one enemy tho.

This will be amazing in mythic+

This guy gets it.

[Saltysquidoon]

if you dont like the design then might i suggest playing another class? Sub will never go back to what it was on classic, and with good reason, it had no class identity besides being an annoying pvp spec with way to much cc.

I'm going to assume based on the sig he wants the WoD op bleedy boy back.

[Radazar]

I'm going to assume based on the sig he wants the WoD op bleedy boy back.

i have seen his posts before he wants the spec to only be good for PvP, he wants to be able to spam hemo while stun locking someone for 3min then vanish just to start it all over

[shoegazing]

i have seen his posts before he wants the spec to only be good for PvP, he wants to be able to spam hemo while stun locking someone for 3min then vanish just to start it all over

It's actually hilarious that this is what you think I want rofl

[Radazar]

It's actually hilarious that this is what you think I want rofl

Thread: Subtlety Finishers and Timersby shoegazing

RepliesViews

One of the worst features of the new Subtlety design is that there is no way to spend combo points on any self-buffs between mobs in world content, or while restealthing in PvP.

I couldn’t overstate how much I miss:


Pressing Premeditation --> Slice and Dice as I stealth towards my enemy and prepare to open

Getting fancy with Premed --> Sap --> Cheap Shot w/o breaking Sap --> Restealth with 4 combo points --> wait DRs --> Slice and Dice from Stealth --> Cheap Shot --> Rupture --> Premed (again!) --> now I’m able to do a completely different stunlock/rotation in my opener.... this is called gameplay depth.

Spending combo points on self-buffs/timers when my enemy is on stun DRs / Find Weakness is down and I’m setting up damage for my next big burst window.

this was taken from a post you made about what you missed the most about old sub sub kinda looks like im right in that you miss the op stun locking that was the cancer of PvP.

[VinceVega]

Seriously. all of them sound annoying, useless, and most importantly NOT FUN OR COOL.



Sounds annoying to watch for, and maddenly frustrating when your combo points skip the Magic Number. Instead of feeling happy to get more combo points than you normally would, you feel angry because now you can't use the covenant.




A Dot. Boring.

And I get full combo points AFTER the enemy dies, so when I mount up and ride away, I get to watch them slowly waste away. Lovely. Having unspent combo points after the enemy dies is already frustrating!




A Dot. It stacks.




So... literally nothing changes.




Am I supposed to be excited by any of this?

Nothing fun. Nothing cool. Nothing amazing. Nothing that makes me feel like I can't wait to click the new button I get for the whole expansion.

This sucks. The devs literally sat around a desk, spent hours thinking of what cool, amazing, fun, and imaginative extra super abilities rogues could get this expansion... and they come up with this?!

As we can only have one of these. Thank god they are not that impactful... if they would your game would be fucked in every way other than the one you chose you ability for.

[shoegazing]

Thread: Subtlety Finishers and Timersby shoegazing

RepliesViews

One of the worst features of the new Subtlety design is that there is no way to spend combo points on any self-buffs between mobs in world content, or while restealthing in PvP.

I couldn’t overstate how much I miss:


Pressing Premeditation --> Slice and Dice as I stealth towards my enemy and prepare to open

Getting fancy with Premed --> Sap --> Cheap Shot w/o breaking Sap --> Restealth with 4 combo points --> wait DRs --> Slice and Dice from Stealth --> Cheap Shot --> Rupture --> Premed (again!) --> now I’m able to do a completely different stunlock/rotation in my opener.... this is called gameplay depth.

Spending combo points on self-buffs/timers when my enemy is on stun DRs / Find Weakness is down and I’m setting up damage for my next big burst window.

this was taken from a post you made about what you missed the most about old sub sub kinda looks like im right in that you miss the op stun locking that was the cancer of PvP.

Legion Subtlety had more stuns than any version of the spec that existed before it. You have very clearly missed the point.