TBC Fresh 58's Only

[Toby451]

because people who didn't put any time into classic want to be even keel with people who did. Its the epitome of retail mentality and exactly why blizzard should not do it.

Please give one logical explanation why a classic WoW character should have an advantage on a TBC server over players who dont want to play vanilla classic. Why stop there? Why cant I transfer my level 70 from retail to TBC classic with gold cap? I put my time in earning that gold, who cares if it was on a different "server" Right?


Keep all servers separated. Nothing on retail went to classic. Nothing on classic should move to TBC.

[Mosha]

Please give one logical explanation why a classic WoW character should have an advantage on a TBC server over players who dont want to play vanilla classic. Why stop there? Why cant I transfer my level 70 from retail to TBC classic with gold cap? I put my time in earning that gold, who cares if it was on a different "server" Right?


Keep all servers separated. Nothing on retail went to classic. Nothing on classic should move to TBC.

They will only answer this with “BECAUSE THATS HOW VANILLA HAPPENED”. Which is ironic considering ‘how vanilla happened’ meant they were forced into tbc and vanilla was dead. But they also don’t want that so...

Like you mentioned. There are great benefits to making classic vanilla and tbc completely separate and starting a new

[ZazuuPriest]

Please give one logical explanation why a classic WoW character should have an advantage on a TBC server over players who dont want to play vanilla classic. Why stop there? Why cant I transfer my level 70 from retail to TBC classic with gold cap? I put my time in earning that gold, who cares if it was on a different "server" Right?


Keep all servers separated. Nothing on retail went to classic. Nothing on classic should move to TBC.

Your example is asinine. Don't sit here and try to ask me to use logic when you are clearly incapable of using it yourself.

It was always the natural progression for Classic Vanilla servers to go on to other expansions, anyone who pretends this isn't the way things will go is fooling themselves. A Classic wow player should have the advantage over someone who starts on classic servers in TBC because they PUT IN THE TIME. It sucks to suck i guess and when this happens i hope people like you, entitled and lazy, stay off the TBC servers.

[Mosha]

Your example is asinine. Don't sit here and try to ask me to use logic when you are clearly incapable of using it yourself.

It was always the natural progression for Classic Vanilla servers to go on to other expansions, anyone who pretends this isn't the way things will go is fooling themselves. A Classic wow player should have the advantage over someone who starts on classic servers in TBC because they PUT IN THE TIME. It sucks to suck i guess and when this happens i hope people like you, entitled and lazy, stay off the TBC servers.

If authenticity is what your goal is, then I’m sure you would be fine with them deleting classic after tbc launches then right? Also, if you truly want it then you would keep gold at a similar amount to keep it really authentic.

Can we just drop the authentic argument already? Or “what happened back in...” argument? You know that’s not what you guys want. You just want your stuff to get a head start and that’s alright if that’s what you want but knock it off with this nonsense

[Ragedaug]

Your example is asinine. Don't sit here and try to ask me to use logic when you are clearly incapable of using it yourself.

It was always the natural progression for Classic Vanilla servers to go on to other expansions, anyone who pretends this isn't the way things will go is fooling themselves. A Classic wow player should have the advantage over someone who starts on classic servers in TBC because they PUT IN THE TIME. It sucks to suck i guess and when this happens i hope people like you, entitled and lazy, stay off the TBC servers.

The difference is that Classic servers aren't about expansion progression. We aren't trying to redo all of WoW. If you want progression servers, you can still play retail. Classic servers are about capturing a moment in time and freezing it. Whenever you feel like recapturing that moment again, you go back and log into your Classic Vanilla characters. Classic TBC should be about TBC and disconnected from Classic Vanilla servers.

For me personally, I think I would prefer a one-time character copy from Classic to TBC, so you don't have to redo any character levels unless you want to. The copy would keep your character with the same look and name (unless already taken). The copied character would have a preset amount of gold based on character level and would have a few bags & greens waiting in the mail. The only thing I would consider transfering over with your character copy is achievements & reputation, because they are all tied to Vanilla, they won't impact your Outland experience.

The thing I'm on the fence is riding & mounts. I think I would be OK with folks who copy at 40+ starting with a 40% mount, and folks copying at 60 starting with an epic mount.

Most folks have a 40 mount shortly after 40 regardless, though I can see some folks upset that L60 copies start with an Epic mount if they didn't buy it in Classic.

*by "one time copy", I mean once per character, or maybe just a set number of total copies, like you can only copy 3 or 5 total characters, but still each character can only be copied once. I'm not OK with everyone starting whatever new characters they want at 58, because leveling was still part of TBC, and you still need to learn to play your character. But I also don't think you need to make everyone start at level 1, when they leveled on Classic servers.

[Sinyc]

Many of us who enjoy Vanilla would like to have Vanilla servers active and full. By not allowing character copy/move and TBC must be played with a fresh level 58, many good things happen with no 'real' downside at all. First, Vanilla character will remain with all its mounts/achievements, waiting for you whenever you want. Next, TBC started on an equal footing for all -no AH cornering.

TBC can now be enjoyed by all players old and young, new and those who loved it in the past equally.

Achievement/title from Vanilla character could be carried over?

SO you essentially just want to play on legal private servers? Vanilla WoW 1.x ends at some point, and the servers would eventually come down.. Just play the game how it was intended and progress your character through the expansions...

[Mosha]

SO you essentially just want to play on legal private servers? Vanilla WoW 1.x ends at some point, and the servers would eventually come down.. Just play the game how it was intended and progress your character through the expansions...

This isn’t how classic is intended. Progression is intended when it was current. Like the guy said above me, classic is suppose to be a capsule in time. If you want to play it how it was “intended” then you should be fine with classic closing when tbc comes out

[Bootynuzzler]

That’s a pretty big statement considering blizzard had a survey showing us that what you think is going to happen could possibly not.

Let’s just get one thing straight out of your argument. The ‘Authentic’ experience you mention and the fear of ‘speed runners’ dominating the market is asinine. First off the Authentic experience is ruined no matter what choice they make. A lot of people, and I mean a LOT of people are walking in with over 20k-30k gold and will have epic flyers from the time they hit 70, a lot will have full nax gear, we know layering will happen again so tbc launch isn’t going to be as disastrous as it was back then. So the authentic experience you mentioned is already dead.

If anything, having people start at 58 will be a more authentic experience than just letting people walk in with everything they have now.

As for the speed runners running the market, please dude.... if you truly think that people who hit end level first making the most money is an issue then how on earth do you think it’s going to be having your ‘authentic’ experience? That they will just hit end level and wait for everyone before they start making money? So your speed runners argument is null.

If you don’t see the positives as well as the negatives for ALL options, then you’re not going to get anywhere with discussions with people.

Cool story bro, except you're basing my usage of the phrase "authentic experience" on your own opinion of what it means. My idea of an authentic experience is a smooth transition from one version of the game to another; the final phase > the pre-patch > expansion launch > doing those first few quests in Hellfire Peninsula and replacing a raid epic with a green. What is truly asinine is, over 8 months later, you thinking you need to tell anyone that Classic is different from Vanilla. Everybody already knows that.

That said, it looks like your latter argument is moot. Besides, my bringing up speed-runners was simply to counter another argument made in a previous comment in this thread, which implied that starting everyone off with a fresh level 58 would - I believe he implied - "save" the economy. Obviously, it wouldn't. Just as with Classic, people will know the most optimal routes for leveling as quickly as possible. People will 70 Mages within days of launch. They will know what items are important to sell and if not instanced, they will farm them so heavily that people will have no choice but to buy them. Too bad they wouldn't have the gold they worked hard for in Classic to help them out. In the end, the economy doesn't change. Why? Because people already know the game, they already know the most efficient methods for doing just about anything they want to in the game. Does it really matter that much to you whether somebody has epic flying the day they hit 70 if they will have it within the same week regardless? Keep in mind, the people you are using as examples are not casual players.

And finally...

If you don’t see the positives as well as the negatives for ALL options, then you’re not going to get anywhere with discussions with people.

Perhaps take your own advice, lest you come across as pretentious.

[Hinastorm]

IMO the best, the most drama-free way is to make exact copies of all Classic realms, upgrade said copies to TBC, and keep the originals exactly as they are. Might add a fresh server or two to both Classic and TBC if anyone wants to start from scratch.

No forced updates to current Classic realms, no opt-ins or opt-outs, no gold cap, no item cap, no "one char only" nonsense. Just plain 1:1 copies. Don't punish paying customers or they'll go straight to private servers.

The result is the smallest number of pissed off players.
Someone wants to play Vanilla? Fantastic. Don't even have to go anywhere. And here's a new, fresh start server if that's what you want.
Prefer TBC? No problem, your Classic characters are ready to go if you want to continue on them. Or here are these fresh start servers. Have fun.
Play both Classic and TBC? Oh honey, do we have good news for you.

Yea sure, you'll still end up with some pissed off players. That's life for you. But this is as drama-free as possible.

As long as they commit to server merges for the realms that will need it, I hard agree.

Just seems to be no winning formula here. I'm super surprised by the amount of people who think they want to sit in classic forever. I still think that is the true "you think you do but you don't". We'll see I guess.

[Sardoc]

As long as they commit to server merges for the realms that will need it, I hard agree.

Just seems to be no winning formula here. I'm super surprised by the amount of people who think they want to sit in classic forever. I still think that is the true "you think you do but you don't". We'll see I guess.

I'd go straight to TBC and stay there, even after a (very probable) WOTLK release. In a way, I understand why someone might want to stick to Classic, because well, I'd like to do the exact same for TBC.

You might be right about merges, but I think there will always be some demand for Classic. It's definitely a much better alternative than the non-stop F R E S H™ start fetish mess called private servers.

[Dartz1979]

This is what i think is going to happen theyw ill go straight to the burning crusade classic and players will journey onwards as their characters no copy transferred will be required also any new players will get access to the draenei race and orc race all of this will likely be simply done via half the day maintenace then when it's up players will be able to resume as they were only leveling to 70.. if you thinka bout things it's not that hard of a thing for them to do all thatw as in bc was more dungeons raids and some qualities of life i honestly dont know why they justd idnt do a trilogy of classic bc and wrath all in one but maybe theyhave something else planned we do mot know of wither ways it's gonna be fun regardless of how they do it.

[iosdeveloper]

I'm going Belf Paladin, so doesn't matter to me

[zoddzero]

This is what i think is going to happen theyw ill go straight to the burning crusade classic and players will journey onwards as their characters no copy transferred will be required

That would infuriate those who are only interested in Vanilla. Not gonna happen.

[Cempa]

SO you essentially just want to play on legal private servers? Vanilla WoW 1.x ends at some point, and the servers would eventually come down.. Just play the game how it was intended and progress your character through the expansions...

This is how it was originally, this is NOT a progress version of the game .. It is meant for you to experience the original WoW ..

TBC will be the same, a stand alone server for you to experience ..

[Koward]

That would infuriate those who are only interested in Vanilla. Not gonna happen.

I don't think they would care that much about infuriating Vanilla-only people.

[Mosha]

That would infuriate those who are only interested in Vanilla. Not gonna happen.

I agree, we should just make them completely separate then. They can't ask for it to play out 'just like it did back then' while also asking for them to keep the vanilla version of the game. These two thoughts are completely contradictory.

[Hansol357]

No, just no. The name of the game is World of warcraft, not TBC, you dont get to skip parts you don't like.
What if a person B doesn't like leveling in TBC and just wants to skip to heroics.
And person C doesn't like heroics and wants to skip to raids.
And person D doesnt want earlier raids and wants to go straight to Sunwell.
While person E hates it all and just wants full BIS so he can unsub.

Should they all get special ruleset servers to match their needs? Nah, just level from level 1 like everybody else has done in the original game and will (hopefully) do this time around as well. One of the main charms of both vanilla and TBC is that you actually work for stuff rather than getting handouts, shortcuts and catchups left right and center like in wow retail.

Oh and if you absolutely cant handle vanilla leveling, can always buy gold from a gold seller and buy a boost.

-well I could skip parts I didnt like (leveling 1-58) because I suffered all the way in Vanilla. Sure if I never played WOW before or wanted a horde paladin then I had to level 1-60 in TBC.
-by the way it is not only the leveling but also professions and so on. So leveling to 70 and get professions to 300 takes A LOT OF TIME.
-I had to do leveling from 60-70, I had to do normal instances, heroic instances and early raids and guess what, I enjoyed them all. Sure there were some instances or quests I disliked but TBC >> Vanilla.

-buy a boost? As far as I remember there was no options to buy a boost or something in TBC.

[Sinyc]

This is how it was originally, this is NOT a progress version of the game .. It is meant for you to experience the original WoW ..

TBC will be the same, a stand alone server for you to experience ..

Has Blizzard stated that is the idea for Classic servers? I can see both sides, but eventually the Classic Vanilla content is done, at that point why still have the servers running?

[Mosha]

Has Blizzard stated that is the idea for Classic servers? I can see both sides, but eventually the Classic Vanilla content is done, at that point why still have the servers running?

Well they did say they didn’t care how many people were on the server, that they would keep it up so I guess you can imply whatever you want there.

[Hinastorm]

I'd go straight to TBC and stay there, even after a (very probable) WOTLK release. In a way, I understand why someone might want to stick to Classic, because well, I'd like to do the exact same for TBC.

You might be right about merges, but I think there will always be some demand for Classic. It's definitely a much better alternative than the non-stop F R E S H™ start fetish mess called private servers.

Look into everquests official progression servers if you're interested in a likely timeline that we'll see.

The fact is, fresh starts have been really good for business for everquest. They drum up sales and hype, despite it probably not being very healthy how often they offer new servers. There is a large amount of players who just keep hopping to the new server every year, leaving the year old servers stuck with losing a huge chunk of their population.

They release expansions every 3 months on these servers, and they've worked out the timeline where when they get to the most popular expansion (planes of power) they release a new one. And so the cycle continues.

And I can't really blame them tbh. Having new servers and new content is alot of fun. Having 5 months or so between major patches in wow classic just leaves these massive voids where most people are mostly raidlogging for months and months, unless they do alts. Not everyone, there are a few people in my guild who somehow still play constantly, but it's mostly because of alts.

I'm actually going to be raiding in both games here soon, just cause there is so little to do in classic (for me).