Park Ranger in Texas pushed into lake after telling crowd to social distance

[Saltysquidoon]

Well, it's a good thing you are being clear that you are not giving legal advice.

You can joke all you want.
I'm a solicitor, when I started quoting and interpreting codes of a jurisdiction I work outside of I made the decision I had crossed into a territory where needed to state that to meet regulatory requirements of my practising certificate (not to mention indemnify myself).

I'd rather be the butt of a joke and covered then have a post I made on a videogame forum bite me in the arse.

[NoiseTank13]

That's a deep rabbit hole to go down. Is the consequence for pushing around a private citizen not a deterrent? Are government authorities so vulnerable they should be some protected class? Seems antithetical to the concept of authority.

It's less vulnerability and more getting the job done. They are supposed to be enforcing the law, rules, whatever. You may argue that the rule is bad or dumb or whatever, but that's for your represenatives to decide, not the park rangers or police officers.

If no one respects (fears) the enforcer, then it's just mob rule, which I think even you have to admit is worse.

[Saltysquidoon]

It's less vulnerability and more getting the job done. They are supposed to be enforcing the law, rules, whatever. You may argue that the rule is bad or dumb or whatever, but that's for your represenatives to decide, not the park rangers or police officers.

If no one respects (fears) the enforcer, then it's just mob rule, which I think even you have to admit is worse.

I just find it interesting that so many people posting take it as a given that there must be harsher penalties for assaults on authorities. When in reality these extra laws or harsher penalties protecting police or civil servants are relatively new (in legal time).

I mean an assault is an assault right? It just seems odd that as a starting position society (more specifically texas in this case) accepts that its less serious the shove a 90 year old woman into a brick wall (if by some miracle she's not injured) then it is shoving a healthy athletic 25 year old man into a wall by virtue of the fact he's got a shiny badge.

[NoiseTank13]

We are telling you the reason for these harsher penalties and it doesn't seem to register or you are unable to comprehend it, so that's really on you.

[Themius]

Yes. That's how authority works. If I can go around pushing police officers around without much fear of consequence, then they wouldn't be very effective police officers, would they?

Going around pushing people can be a crime though... so... why should it be “extra” criminal if it happens to a cop?

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We are telling you the reason for these harsher penalties and it doesn't seem to register or you are unable to comprehend it, so that's really on you.

The reason is you feel authority is above people. As if becoming a cop makes you a special people.

Police already get away with a lot so you want harsh penalties for officers who break laws? Or are harsh penalties only for the plebs??

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This country is essentially founded and built on the concept that one can protest and raise against authority.

[NoiseTank13]

The reason is you feel authority is above people. As if becoming a cop makes you a special people.

Yes. That is the point of a position of power. To have additional responsibilities and powers to do things not all people should do or are qualified to do. Which leads to this part-

Police already get away with a lot so you want harsh penalties for officers who break laws? Or are harsh penalties only for the plebs?

Hell to the motherfucking yes. If authority figures abuse/misuse/are incompetent to a criminal degree they should get far worse punishments than the plebs. Is this concern trolling?

[Themius]

Yes. That is the point of a position of power. To have additional responsibilities and powers to do things not all people should do or are qualified to do. Which leads to this part-



Hell to the motherfucking yes. If authority figures abuse/misuse/are incompetent to a criminal degree they should get far worse punishments than the plebs. Is this concern trolling?

Um... police officers require you to be young and able to do some basic training for a few weeks... that is it do you think crimes against lawyers should also garner special "extra" punishments??? They actually have to train for years and fully understand THE LAW where as officers are often entirely ignorant about it.. because they don't study the law and they only have a few months at best to learn...

Frankly to be an officer I feel it should be 3 years and heavy on law.

and I do not live in a country where authority figures who abuse their position are actually punished for it...

Literally a prosector was found to have been falsifying and hiding information, and ultimately a man was killed for it. End result? Nothing, he actually says he was still right, never apologised, and... well nothing happened.

A lab was found to have lied about blood data hundreds of times which has put people on death row (since released) with who knows how many more who should be. When this was discovered the man fired sued because he said it was out of norm with normal punishment which was demotion not to be fired.

So the normal punishment for falsifying and lying that puts someone wrongly to DEATH was demotion and a pay cut for a year or two.

[NoiseTank13]

Okey dokey red rider, keep up the crusade.

[Themius]

Okey dokey red rider, keep up the crusade.

Oh so you've run out of actual arguments as the idea of having "special" extra punishments of officers in a system where officers get away with literal murder and prosecutors and pathologist can be caught openly lying are almost never punished, makes no sense.

I mean one would have to pretend officers are above reproach and extremely professional and such to even argue what you have logically, yet they are not that. Officers often break the law, it is why so many departments get investigated for civil right violations, it is why the entirety of Albq NM department has been investigated several times.

Tell me do you think assaulting an officer is so bad when you then learn later that the entire department was falsifying confessions sending innocent people to jail? Because, get this, the prosecutor of the state decided to give AN OFFICER FOUND TO BE FALSIFYING REPORTS the option of either staying and being tried to leaving to go to another department and face no charges.

Yeah your idea of "extra punishments" for people who commit crimes against police, when the USA is a country with a serious corruption problem of the police seems rather bonkers in this situation.

Officers are just people, if you punch a cop you should be charged with...the appropriate assault as though you had punched a random stranger.

[Deus Mortis]

Going around pushing people can be a crime though... so... why should it be “extra” criminal if it happens to a cop?

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The reason is you feel authority is above people. As if becoming a cop makes you a special people.

Police already get away with a lot so you want harsh penalties for officers who break laws? Or are harsh penalties only for the plebs??

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This country is essentially founded and built on the concept that one can protest and raise against authority.

I want harsher penalties for officers who break the law and I want harsher penalties for crimes committed against law enforcement. Why do you always want criminals to just get a tiny slap on the wrist for crimes? The Park Ranger was shoved off his feet into water, the dip shit being drunk is not a fucking excuse. Give the dumb ass a year in jail and after that give him 100 hours of community service cleaning up state parks. Maybe after that he will learn that his actions have consequences.

[Themius]

I want harsher penalties for officers who break the law and I want harsher penalties for crimes committed against law enforcement. Why do you always want criminals to just get a tiny slap on the wrist for crimes? The Park Ranger was shoved off his feet into water, the dip shit being drunk is not a fucking excuse. Give the dumb ass a year in jail and after that give him 100 hours of community service cleaning up state parks. Maybe after that he will learn that his actions have consequences.

Actually voluntary intoxication is an excuse... it can change how intent is handled. In fact in some cases if you are so drunk you can't have any intent as you couldn't form it or you can simply be so drunk that your culpability is lowered.

Why not just community service for a year? Why not that over... 3 weeks of community service and.... a year in jail for what? Generally jail makes criminals more criminal especially in this country, so it seems stupid to send people to jail for minor crimes like this.

Tiny slaps on wrist for crimes... huh... I want decent outcomes, not silly ones for punishment sake.

Jail for a year for pushing some guy off a pier of some kind 1 foot above a metre of water. A man who btw... isn't injured. It isn't as though his motive was to cause harm, at least that's not what it seems like, and you'd have a difficult time trying to prove he meant harm.

Motive is important when it comes to punishment, or do you think it isn't?

I want normal penalties for those who break the law for all.

[announced]

I like how the op labelled some random adult being stupid as deplorable. Real classy.

Jailing is a bit extreme for pushing someone into a lake. Law officer or not. Give him community service for a month or two.

[Endus]

Going around pushing people can be a crime though... so... why should it be “extra” criminal if it happens to a cop?

As much as I crapped on you earlier, I agree on this point.

That he was an officer clearly just executing his duties and obligations as an officer, and that's why he was assaulted, that's a pretty slam-dunk argument for why it's clearly criminal. There's no justifiable argument to be made for the assault. That he's an officer makes it easier to draw that conclusion, which should make conviction for the crime a bit easier.

But that's all the special consideration it really warrants. Like I said earlier; I wasn't in favor of just community service, but 2+ years is ridiculous. A month or two seems fair.

[Egomaniac]

You can joke all you want.
I'm a solicitor, when I started quoting and interpreting codes of a jurisdiction I work outside of I made the decision I had crossed into a territory where needed to state that to meet regulatory requirements of my practising certificate (not to mention indemnify myself).

I'd rather be the butt of a joke and covered then have a post I made on a videogame forum bite me in the arse.

That's a long way to go just to say "I don't know what I'm talking about"

Let me ask you one thing, and let me be clear, I'm only asking your opinion as a layperson...not for you to speak in any legal capacity (just to make sure you don't indemnify yourself). Your position is that physical harm must be present in order for something to qualify as being violent. If person A hits Person B with a baseball bat....but Person B does not sustain any physical harm....Has Person A, again only speaking your personal view and not as a solicitor, committed a violent act?

[NoiseTank13]

Oh so you've run out of actual arguments as the idea of having "special" extra punishments of officers in a system where officers get away with literal murder and prosecutors and pathologist can be caught openly lying are almost never punished, makes no sense.

No, because you don't read my posts, your own arguments are dogshit, and quite frankly there is nothing to discuss when you have nothing intellectually of value to offer in your own wall of nonsense text.

[Volatilis]

Going around pushing people can be a crime though... so... why should it be “extra” criminal if it happens to a cop?

Its pretty obvious why law enforcement get special privledges around their protection.

Because their job actually actively puts them in danger where they have to tell idiots to break up parties.

It is unlikely you or I are doing that from home so we are less likely to be harmed in the same way.

If your job always puts you in danger they gonna do all they can to protect you more, basic.

[Themius]

Its pretty obvious why law enforcement get special privledges around their protection.

Because their job actually actively puts them in danger where they have to tell idiots to break up parties.

It is unlikely you or I are doing that from home so we are less likely to be harmed in the same way.

If your job always puts you in danger they gonna do all they can to protect you more, basic.

Meanwhile we have a thread about a modern day lynching with video where a man hasn’t been arrested and just so happens to have worked in law for 37 years.

Also officer isn’t a very dangerous job and IT IS A JOB THEY CHOSE.

[Volatilis]

Also officer isn’t a very dangerous job and IT IS A JOB THEY CHOSE.

And scientists dealing with dangerous chemicals are gonna wear protective gear. Same thing.

[Saltysquidoon]

That's a long way to go just to say "I don't know what I'm talking about"

Let me ask you one thing, and let me be clear, I'm only asking your opinion as a layperson...not for you to speak in any legal capacity (just to make sure you don't indemnify yourself). Your position is that physical harm must be present in order for something to qualify as being violent. If person A hits Person B with a baseball bat....but Person B does not sustain any physical harm....Has Person A, again only speaking your personal view and not as a solicitor, committed a violent act?

First of all, that's not what I said but that's neither here nor there. Also, it wasn't directed solely at you, it was more if someone saw it and decided to go around shoving people because the internet lawyer said so (it's happened).

Luckily for me attacking someone with a weapon is pretty much universally a circumstance of aggravation so that makes is a violent act by default. In practical terms, unless it was a whiffle bat the circumstances you're describing is pretty much impossible but assuming it happened and this person took a swing at superman. I guess the eggshell skull rule applies (you have to take the victim as you find them) and the aggressor got incredibly lucky (assuming this ubermensch doesn't turn them into a pretzel).

And scientists dealing with dangerous chemicals are gonna wear protective gear. Same thing.

Yes but police already have protective gear and if a scientist gets cancer from ethidium bromide we don't punish it extra hard.

I'd just like to point out that several courts (outside America) have stated that police work is inherently dangerous and individuals that choose to carry it out accept the assumption of risk and therefore can't argue things like suffering special psychological harm or they were exposed to undue physical risk as a consequence of their normal duties.

[Endus]

Its pretty obvious why law enforcement get special privledges around their protection.

Because their job actually actively puts them in danger where they have to tell idiots to break up parties.

It is unlikely you or I are doing that from home so we are less likely to be harmed in the same way.

If your job always puts you in danger they gonna do all they can to protect you more, basic.

That just means that there should me more cases of assault against officers. Not that the punishment should be more strict.

And frankly, the USA's got a bigger overall problem with officers assaulting and even murdering citizens, rather than the other way around.