OK Boomer! (looking for info)

[shadowmouse]

Let's keep it light, OK? You guys already know that @Ghostpanther and I are probably the most regular posters here in 60+ bracket (there are others, but they hide better). There isn't much point in venting about a generation when you have an audience of two, so try to give constructive feedback. Hey, at least I'm asking (or rather, about to ask), right?

Yep, Shadowmouse is 60 now and ... dang it, it feels like each semester the students get younger. Twenty years ago, that was less of a problem. Since I'd gone back to college after military service, I didn't feel the age gap quite as strongly (at least, no more so than I did going back to college with a crowd of 18 year olds). These days, even my daughters and many of my former students are in their 30s.

So, what's the question geezer? OK, I'm asking you guys -- most you being at least younger than I am and more likely to know people even younger than you -- to tell me about the interests and concerns (aside from cussing Boomers) of the 25 and younger crowd and its sub groups. I know some of you are young parents, but let's set the floor for age at Grade 10. Children and parents the world over can probably rejoice, I prefer to afflict college students with my classes.

Play well with each other, OK? But recall that Shadowmouse has been in China for the last 20 years. That's an extra level of disconnect, so you may need to connect some dots for me to get a better understanding of your replies.

Thanks!

EDIT: If it helps, think of your answer in term of "OK, Boomer, this is who we (and those younger) are!" For those who don't remember why I'd ask this, in the alternate reality where I'm not shitposting on Gen-OT, I'm Professor Shadowmouse and I teach abstract concepts to undergraduates. In particular, remote classes during COVID-19 mean that I need to make an effort to stay on top of things in order to help the poor bastards trying to learn something useful from me to make connections. I need to be able to ask questions and make points that have relevance to them in their own terms and perceptions, and living in China right now the Great Firewall is turned up from SNAFU to FUBAR. I cannot, for example, just go watch streamers and Youtube.

[Ashleyxoxo]

I'm 31 but retreated from society 8-9 years ago, so I know even less than you do.

[Forgettable]

FYI I'm 29. Most of the people I spend time with are in the 25-35 range. My parents are both almost 60.

Interests and concerns? Well I could rant about how both my parents to a degree, but mostly my dad, think that global warming/climate change is a hoax. And this is systematic, it's not just my parents, it's so many people. It's annoying that they think this way, but what's most frustrating is that they either aren't willing to look at the data that proves climate change, or they don't trust the people providing the data for... whatever the reason of the day is.

I live in a condo building full of mostly old people. We have 2 huge garbage dumpsters, 4 blue recycling bins, and 1 green compost bin. Every week they all get almost full up. Meanwhile every week I have a big bin full of recycling, a small compost bag, and half a bag of garbage. These people are so wasteful and I don't understand how or why.

Almost every "old person" I know has picked a political stance, and refuses to ever change because obviously they're right. Conservative, progressive, it doesn't matter the side. The problem is they're stuck in this tribalism and they spend more time fighting "the other side" than trying to work on solutions to make things better.

So many people, my parents included, are stuck in the past when it comes to technology. They don't know how to properly use phones/computers/whatever else. They don't believe self driving cars will ever be feasible. They don't adopt new technology to make their lives more efficient. They don't use the internet to research... Anything, when they could be using it to research... Everything.

I guess ultimately it comes down to a mentality of being resistant to change, being stuck in the past, and not looking forward to what the future will look like. And it's selfish.

[shadowmouse]

@Forgettable That's pretty much exactly the post I was asking people to avoid. You told me what you think about Boomers -- thanks, I am one, I hear that plenty -- I'm a Boomer asking what the heck you younger types are interested in/concerned about when you aren't talking about Boomers.

[Egomaniac]

@Forgettable That's pretty much exactly the post I was asking people to avoid. You told me what you think about Boomers -- thanks, I am one, I hear that plenty -- I'm a Boomer asking what the heck you younger types are interested in/concerned about when you aren't talking about Boomers.

What kind of answer do you expect to hear? If I asked you..."What are Boomers interested in?" ..do you think you could speak for your entire generation? Or, in this case, several different generations...since you just want to hear from "younger people". That's Gen X, Millennials, and Post Millenials all wrapped up in "Younger People"

[Endus]

@Forgettable That's pretty much exactly the post I was asking people to avoid. You told me what you think about Boomers -- thanks, I am one, I hear that plenty -- I'm a Boomer asking what the heck you younger types are interested in/concerned about when you aren't talking about Boomers.

I just want to underscore something with this.
@Forgettable gave you a list of their concerns, implicitly. Climate change, sustainability, critical thinking (or more specifically, the lack thereof), technological advancement, education (and specifically, the phenomenon of willful ignorance and its impacts, as the obverse). That they want change.

And you dismissed all that, because it wasn't framed in exactly the way you demanded it, and you're not willing to accept the information you were given unless it was given to you with the "proper" amount of obsequiousness that you feel you are somehow deserved for . . . what? Being older?

That earns you nothing.

That's what "OK, Boomer" is about. And why so many Boomers find it so offensive. It isn't an insult; "Boomer" is a common label for your generation. It's a dismissal. It's a communication that they don't even give enough of a shit about what you're saying to correct you when you're wrong. Okay, believe whatever you want, we don't give a fuck any more because it's a waste of our precious time and breath and effort, since too often it just gets dismissed or ignored.

And your response here demonstrates that. You were given a response, giving you exactly what you asked for, and you didn't listen. You just dismissed it out of hand.

And that's what earns you the "OK, Boomer." We're tired of repeating ourselves, only to have you continue to ignore what we're saying. So fuck it; go and do whatever you're gonna do anyway. We're moving on, bye.

That's what the younger folk want. Basic respect. And by dismissing what they're saying and not bothering to pay attention to it, you're disrespecting them. So don't feign shock when they have little respect for you in return.

And seriously; we don't talk about Boomers a lot. Unless Boomers are demanding we do so. If you're hearing that a lot, that says a lot, dude.

Technically GenX, but only missing Millenial by a couple years.

Also, by no means "all Boomers". There's plenty who don't fit into this. But I'm willing to bet they've also never had anyone say "OK, Boomer" to them.

[Forgettable]

I just want to underscore something with this.
@Forgettable gave you a list of their concerns, implicitly. Climate change, sustainability, critical thinking (or more specifically, the lack thereof), technological advancement, education (and specifically, the phenomenon of willful ignorance and its impacts, as the obverse). That they want change.

And you dismissed all that, because it wasn't framed in exactly the way you demanded it, and you're not willing to accept the information you were given unless it was given to you with the "proper" amount of obsequiousness that you feel you are somehow deserved for . . . what? Being older?

That earns you nothing.

That's what "OK, Boomer" is about. And why so many Boomers find it so offensive. It isn't an insult; "Boomer" is a common label for your generation. It's a dismissal. It's a communication that they don't even give enough of a shit about what you're saying to correct you when you're wrong. Okay, believe whatever you want, we don't give a fuck any more because it's a waste of our precious time and breath and effort, since too often it just gets dismissed or ignored.

And your response here demonstrates that. You were given a response, giving you exactly what you asked for, and you didn't listen. You just dismissed it out of hand.

And that's what earns you the "OK, Boomer." We're tired of repeating ourselves, only to have you continue to ignore what we're saying. So fuck it; go and do whatever you're gonna do anyway. We're moving on, bye.

That's what the younger folk want. Basic respect. And by dismissing what they're saying and not bothering to pay attention to it, you're disrespecting them. So don't feign shock when they have little respect for you in return.

And seriously; we don't talk about Boomers a lot. Unless Boomers are demanding we do so. If you're hearing that a lot, that says a lot, dude.

Technically GenX, but only missing Millenial by a couple years.

Also, by no means "all Boomers". There's plenty who don't fit into this. But I'm willing to bet they've also never had anyone say "OK, Boomer" to them.

Thank you for explaining so eloquently what I couldn't figure out how to say.

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@Forgettable That's pretty much exactly the post I was asking people to avoid. You told me what you think about Boomers -- thanks, I am one, I hear that plenty -- I'm a Boomer asking what the heck you younger types are interested in/concerned about when you aren't talking about Boomers.

Perhaps I've framed it in exactly the way you were not asking for, but if you flip everything I've said and don't consider it a personal attack on you/your age group, I think you'll find the answer you were looking for. It's not intended to be an insult, but you must realize it's just very difficult to discuss the things I care about without also showcasing the people causing those problems - They're bound to be intertwined in the explanation.

[PC2]

tell me about the interests and concerns

Interests; All forms of art, sci/tech/engineering, philosophy, adventures in nature.

Concerns? I don't have any except to find the answer to all questions! Obviously the most pressing question right now is to figure out the fastest way to beat the virus so that society can resume operations. It's quite complicated with no clear answer that doesn't involve some form of sacrifice.

[Acidbaron]

It also the notion that "science will fix it all, i don't need to change anything about my behaviour, not my problem what the next generations inherit"

On top of that there is also the constant claim they had things worse, when they ended up in a period of unseen growth and prosperity where their wage could easily buy them a home and a whole family could live of the wage of a single working parent. Good luck getting that done now.
Getting jobs for them was also easier, you could get a way with a whole lot more back in the day.

So it is rather a dismissive tone, you don't care about us or our future, why should we waste time and energy on someone one leg in the grave anyway.

That's not to say all of them are like that, i have met plenty that considerate of what they are leaving behind and don't seek praise while trying to put younger generations down.

[ErrandRunner]

There is a reason Mother Nature struck so many boomers severely with covid-19. Think of it as a type of planet ideological cleanse.
[Infraction]

[breadisfunny]

interests:alleria,elves,history,really spicy food, video games,early 20th century naval warfare,roman history,etc. i have a lot different interests than others in my age range.
most of them all they talk about is sports.
concerns:dying alone,climate change,

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Interests; All forms of art, sci/tech/engineering, philosophy, adventures in nature.

Concerns? I don't have any except to find the answer to all questions! Obviously the most pressing question right now is to figure out the fastest way to beat the virus so that society can resume operations. It's quite complicated with no clear answer that doesn't involve some form of sacrifice.

bullshit everytime you get presented with an answer. you claim it's impossible to predict the future or some other nonsense and ignore every post that proves you wrong. we all know why your here and its not to get answers.

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There is a reason Mother Nature struck so many boomers severely with covid-19. Think of it as a type of planet ideological cleanse.

now that's what i call edgy volume 19.

[ErrandRunner]

Interests; All forms of art, sci/tech/engineering, philosophy, adventures in nature.

Concerns? I don't have any except to find the answer to all questions! Obviously the most pressing question right now is to figure out the fastest way to beat the virus so that society can resume operations. It's quite complicated with no clear answer that doesn't involve some form of sacrifice.

Young people of today know nothing about sacrifice, though. So how can the concept be explained unless through example?

[PC2]

bullshit everytime you get presented with an answer. you claim it's impossible to predict the future or some other nonsense and ignore every post that proves you wrong. we all know why your here and its not to get answers.

You're going off-topic but a prediction isn't an answer to a question. To solve problems you need explanations regarding either the 'how' or 'why' questions. The future of human society is unpredictable in principle and anyone telling you they know the future is a snake-oil salesmen or charlatan.

Back on topic: Let's avoid inter-generational hatred and the blame game. I'm a Millenial but I don't see the point in complaining about Boomers, we should only be focusing on solutions.

[shadowmouse]

And you dismissed all that, because it wasn't framed in exactly the way you demanded it, and you're not willing to accept the information you were given unless it was given to you with the "proper" amount of obsequiousness that you feel you are somehow deserved for . . . what? Being older?

That earns you nothing.

Nice projection you have going there.

You have to reframe @Forgettables response quite a bit to reach that conclusion. You translate that as: "Climate change, sustainability, critical thinking (or more specifically, the lack thereof), technological advancement, education (and specifically, the phenomenon of willful ignorance and its impacts, as the obverse)." Nope, not what he wrote. Let's take climate change, one of your pet peeves. Are you going to accept "well, Boomers ..." as an adequate response? Not that I've noticed. You're translating, so let's take his answer: "Well I could rant about how both my parents to a degree, but mostly my dad, think that global warming/climate change is a hoax. And this is systematic, it's not just my parents, it's so many people. It's annoying that they think this way, but what's most frustrating is that they either aren't willing to look at the data that proves climate change, or they don't trust the people providing the data for... whatever the reason of the day is." At the end of that, can you tell me what the hell *he* thinks about climate change? Is he worried about crops? Is he with the Waffle guy and worried that a giant block of ice is going to break off and cause a splash that will inundate the coasts?

Go look at my edit for why I've asked the question at all. I've used the "OK, Boomer" meme to highlight a disconnect. You guys aren't a perfect sample group, but you are closer in age than I am and more likely to talk to people closer to the age of my students. Telling me what you think about Boomers (in our day called Baby Boomers) is valid expression, but won't help me help my students connect patterns. Since that was the point of the question, that's the point I'm sticking to ... old guy, out of touch, looking for patterns that *might* help the nickle drop for students even younger than most posters here.

but if you flip everything I've said

Look, we're speaking English here, don't try to go Chinese on me. Say what you mean. "If you flip everything I've said" Why would I, and why would you want me to guess what your actual intent is? If I ask if you like orange juice, telling me that there is an environmental cost to producing orange juice, and that a lot of orange juice labeled as fresh isn't actually freshly squeezed tells me something ... but it still doesn't tell me if you like orange juice.

So it is rather a dismissive tone, you don't care about us or our future, why should we waste time and energy on someone one leg in the grave anyway.

Again, please look at the edit and see if that helps you understand the intended question here. Actually, I was supposed to kick the bucket at least a decade ago, I'm sitting on the side of the grave, with both feet dangling in it, while I have a beer. Your point isn't invalid, it simply misses the point of my question, which -- oddly enough -- is an attempt to help students generally 16-22 make sense of abstractions being taught by some elderly guy who is looking for points of information that might be more relevant to them.

What kind of answer do you expect to hear? If I asked you..."What are Boomers interested in?" ..do you think you could speak for your entire generation?

Fair enough, although with this crowd here, when have such concerns ever stopped people from expressing their opinions before.

Could I speak for all Boomers, of course I could -- and we know I'd be dead wrong on most of my opinions. That's how data works though, gather opinions, look for patterns, if you're doing it even half assed right look for patterns you may have missed too. The experiences of our European posters isn't going to be a carbon copy of our American posters, and every now and then we may have someone ring in from outside NA/EU.

I expect a variety (the wider the better) of our usual Gen-OT posters to tell me what they can, to the degree they can, in a format that will help me bring some degree of relevance to classes that generally range from grade 10 through their undergraduate studies. You'll notice I haven't replied to @PC2, I often disagree with him, but he tossed out some opinions. With 10 more posts, I'll possibly start to have a feeling for some of the emotional currents for those issues. If the discussion went on for a few more pages, I'd have a better shot at filling out a picture.

I'm a guy posting on a forum with a variety of people. They vary in age, education, ethnicity, and geographic location, just to hit the basics. With a survey, one gets the answers to the questions that are asked, but where one doesn't understand the topic it is probable that one won't ask the questions in a useful format -- as witnessed by even an attempt to make my question open ended. I'm trying to find ways to make classes contain points and discussion that will help younger students see patterns or ask questions, but I'm 40 years older than they are and for the past 20 of those years I've been in China -- meaning that there are things that I've witnessed through news, email, forum discussions and even talks with other people, BUT I wasn't there in the middle of them. That's why I made a specific point that for some things, I may need y'all to go into greater depth to connect some of the dots for me.

This is an idle thread while many of us are sitting at home (YMMV) during various degrees of lockdown, phrased in a way that might help me get a somewhat better picture of some things in my own mind, especially since just surfing social media isn't an option for me give the Great Firewall. While few of you are actually in the same age group I'm teaching, you're a hell of a lot closer to the picture than I am.

[Farndrape]

Your question cannot be answered in the way you want it. Young people are people, much as boomers are. They want economic security. They don't want to die.

The main difference is that economic and physical security mean different things for young people entirely because of the actions of previous generations. You can't really avoid the fact boomers polluted the planet and stole the wealth of future generations if you are going to discuss those things beyond an incredibly superficial level.

[PC2]

@shadowmouse don't teach your students to value "patterns" as you mentioned because that just leads to probability and stereotypes. Instead teach them to look for causal principles that are either true 100% of the time or are falsifiable by one single counter-example.

[TheCrown]

I'm 31 but retreated from society 8-9 years ago, so I know even less than you do.

What do you mean you retired from society?
How do you get by?

Do you work online? How does one acquire income that way?

I'm generally curios because I think about this lifestyle more an more
but don't know how to start yet :S

[shadowmouse]

@Farndrape Erm, why do you assume I'm going to discuss them at all? How do the points you've mentioned help young students understand most classes?

Let me imagine this: "Hey guys! Good morning, or evening, whatever timezone this is for you. Today's class is about emerging ethical issues in the work place, but some guy using a burner account on a forum thinks it will be useful for me to tell you that Boomers polluted the planet and stole the wealth of future generations. You guys, the ones in Africa, stop laughing so hard and don't make fun of colonialism again!"

Instead teach them to look for causal principles that are either true 100% of the time or are falsifiable by one single counter-example.

That doesn't work in my field and setting. One has to start with looking for patterns, then learn how to question them. Among the outlandish and abstract things I am expected to help students get a handle on is creativity. Even something that seems more cut and dried comes with catches --trying to teach critical thinking across 100+ cultures, most of them coming from different educational backgrounds, some at different educational levels (hey, Shadowmouse, we threw an MD and a practicing lawyer in with the freshmen, no problem, right?), and trying to get them skill sets that they will then be able to use across even more cultures, doesn't really have a one size fits all answer.
***********************

Dang, guys! Come on, I'm looking for the stuff that for the most part isn't generating clicks on the main pages of Yahoo and CNN (which, thankfully, usually aren't blocked). I'm looking for the stuff like whatever the current version of Gamergate is, or there was a time when a big worry among some of my students was whether they should get plastic surgery (and where should it stop) to get a job in a competitive market. Those are things that might be relevant to younger posters, and I might well be unaware of (or unaware of the nuances). I realize some of these things you will, at best, be able to mention only obliquely because of banned topics. That's just one of the forum quirks that I'll have to live with, so please stick to forum rules on such things.

[Acidbaron]

Dang, guys! Come on, I'm looking for the stuff that for the most part isn't generating clicks on the main pages of Yahoo and CNN (which, thankfully, usually aren't blocked). I'm looking for the stuff like whatever the current version of Gamergate is, or there was a time when a big worry among some of my students was whether they should get plastic surgery (and where should it stop) to get a job in a competitive market. Those are things that might be relevant to younger posters, and I might well be unaware of (or unaware of the nuances). I realize some of these things you will, at best, be able to mention only obliquely because of banned topics. That's just one of the forum quirks that I'll have to live with, so please stick to forum rules on such things.

If you are interested in good articles i suggest subscribing to https://getpocket.com/

It always provides something news worthy to read that isn't tabloid or conspiracy material, it does touch on mainstream subjects.

If you are interested in articles that provoke critical thinking, that in my opinion would a good place to start.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

...what did you really expect OP? Are you really that shocked with your responses?


Must be a boomer thing. /s