To whom who agreed that accessibility was healthy for WoW

[Beefhammer]

Yes you had to. You actualy had to otherwise you wouldt finish content.

Other than saying yes to joining a group, or begging for others to join yours you didn't. As for raiding, something like 5% saw raid content in Vanilla so it's not like many were completing content.

Yes, it's easier to get into groups and it can be done without "socialization"(again, that is not what has been meant over the last 10+ years of complaining about the lack of it). That still doesn't prevent players form being social once in those settings. Players would rather not. Again, players didn't really do as much as people love to claim.

[Elias01]

Other than saying yes to joining a group, or begging for others to join yours you didn't. As for raiding, something like 5% saw raid content in Vanilla so it's not like many were completing content.

Yes, it's easier to get into groups and it can be done without "socialization"(again, that is not what has been meant over the last 10+ years of complaining about the lack of it). That still doesn't prevent players form being social once in those settings. Players would rather not. Again, players didn't really do as much as people love to claim.

Game desing and enviroment is what shapes community and players behaviour. This is know fact and nothing you will say will change it. Yes classic and vannila was designed to encourage platers interactions no moder game do not encourage players interaction until very end game where majority of players no longer have motivation to play becouse of acessability. Being social in modern game is optional propably same way as flying is optional. It isnt.

[Charge me Doctor]

Also claiming that the game is less social is a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle disingenuous. The game is still plenty social, people are still using comms in raids / M+ / etc and with their guilds. The only way it's less social is if you define social as bugging people in general chat because you want to kill an elite mob to get a sword that's going to be useless in about 20 minutes.

That's mostly because being social now is different than before, now people hang out in guild discords instead of guild chats

[Nerovar]

Wrong. It's a player problem., If once can force themselves in classic, they can force themselves in retail. Thee game doesn't promote anything. Not a game problem at all.

Except that's not how the game works and it's also not how people behave.

Classic: the only option to form a dungeon group is to manually look for people, invite them and then travel to the dungeon.
Retail: you can do the above by simply pressing a button and you get punished if you don't go this route.

Please tell me how those two approaches facilitate the same player behaviour.

[Sansnom]

Group content you talk about are higher difficulty levels which majority of players do not do.

Which goes back to the question that you did not answer. What alternative group contents are there? If you remove LFR, then no easy raiding, remove LFD, no easy grouping for dungeons. So what group content are there to promote social interaction that you so want? What are available in classic and not in retail?

[Mosha]

Accessibility added throughout the until wotlk for sure made the game better for new players which made it so popular. The problem is, is that they went too far with it and ruined the game. If you’re acting like things added like the quest log in wotlk didn’t help people stay playing then you are just clueless.

Whether you want to believe it or not the average player was trash and clueless, anding some features to help them along was healthy for the game. Adding too much just took away from the game itself. Quit acting like everything is so black and white.

[rrayy]

Except that's not how the game works and it's also not how people behave.

Classic: the only option to form a dungeon group is to manually look for people, invite them and then travel to the dungeon.
Retail: you can do the above by simply pressing a button and you get punished if you don't go this route.

Please tell me how those two approaches facilitate the same player behaviour.

Clicking a button in no way prevents you from trying to be social. All it does it get you to the dungeon faster. Everything after that is on the player. Not the games fault you don't talk after you arrive in the dungeon.

[Elias01]

Accessibility added throughout the until wotlk for sure made the game better for new players which made it so popular. The problem is, is that they went too far with it and ruined the game. If you’re acting like things added like the quest log in wotlk didn’t help people stay playing then you are just clueless.

Whether you want to believe it or not the average player was trash and clueless, anding some features to help them along was healthy for the game. Adding too much just took away from the game itself. Quit acting like everything is so black and white.

I doubth it made game better for bew players. Imagine you are new player and you start playing wow. You heard about this massive mmorpg game played by millions then log in play for bit and game feels completly dead even at max level. Such player will propably just quit game.

- - - Updated - - -

Clicking a button in no way prevents you from trying to be social. All it does it get you to the dungeon faster. Everything after that is on the player. Not the games fault you don't talk after you arrive in the dungeon.

Learn something about social dynamics withing game enviroment bevouse what you said is absolute nonsense.

[Nerovar]

Clicking a button in no way prevents you from trying to be social. All it does it get you to the dungeon faster. Everything after that is on the player. Not the games fault you don't talk after you arrive in the dungeon.

Except you also take away all the things that could happen outside the dungeon before the actual run. All the conversations and potential hostile encounters with other players happen on the way to the dungeon or while you're still searching for players. Those were the things that created memorable moments for me. Why would you talk to players when the experience of running a dungeon has been so condensed that you're in combat for pretty much the entire time and therefor talking to your mates would only hamper your performance as a group? Also being able to constantly find new players/groups by simply pressing a button commodifies your fellow players by making them easily replacable and therefor further cheapens the experience.

I guess you simply don't see the game in the same way because you have altogether different expectations when it comes to MMORPGs. But the difference is there and it's pretty glaringly obvious to anyone who cares.

[Big Thanks]

From the awesome interview with WIRED in the front page (im so glad to see Ion agreeing with ME in many things )

“There’s an inverse relationship between friction and the strength of bonds that are formed as a result of that friction or to overcome that friction,” says Hazzikostas

and

"The game is more casual, because both developers and players made it that way, so building player-to-player connections isn’t as vital. Although World of Warcraft included level-syncing and server-hopping to make it easier to play with preexisting friends, online strangers plugged into a party here or there became disposable."

Ion...ma man.......im glad you get it
And im glad we share the same opinion (T_T)

[Mosha]

I doubth it made game better for bew players. Imagine you are new player and you start playing wow. You heard about this massive mmorpg game played by millions then log in play for bit and game feels completly dead even at max level. Such player will propably just quit game.

- - - Updated - - -



Learn something about social dynamics withing game enviroment bevouse what you said is absolute nonsense.

Wait what are you talking about? The game was not even close to dead in wotlk LOL unless you were on a completely dead realm then uh... yeah... no shit.

Idk if they still do this but wow use to have some servers listed as ‘new player servers’. And these servers were in no way dead while leveling.

Odd that you suggest the game was dead literally at the peak of its life

[Shiza]

Except you also take away all the things that could happen outside the dungeon before the actual run. All the conversations and potential hostile encounters with other players happen on the way to the dungeon or while you're still searching for players. Those were the things that created memorable moments for me. Why would you talk to players when the experience of running a dungeon has been so condensed that you're in combat for pretty much the entire time and therefor talking to your mates would only hamper your performance as a group? Also being able to constantly find new players/groups by simply pressing a button commodifies your fellow players by making them easily replacable and therefor further cheapens the experience.

I guess you simply don't see the game in the same way because you have altogether different expectations when it comes to MMORPGs. But the difference is there and it's pretty glaringly obvious to anyone who cares.

This was shit though. It was boring and basically just about killing time because everyone was bored the shit out waiting and just wanted to play the game. People love to complain about timegating, when having to manually look for groups and then run to the dungeon was probably the biggest and most obnoxious timegate of all times.

[Nerovar]

This was shit though. It was boring and basically just about killing time because everyone was bored the shit out waiting and just wanted to play the game. People love to complain about timegating, when having to manually look for groups and then run to the dungeon was probably the biggest and most obnoxious timegate of all times.

I don't think it's shit. Waiting a few minutes before you gather your group is not an issue for me at all and I honestly don't know anyone who ever complained about this.

This is also not what "timegate" means.

[breadisfunny]

You were wrong. Admit it.

The Ex CEO of Blizzard even admits that it killed the social aspects of a social game.

Update

I am not going to reply to all of your comments, but instead check out this video, it’s pretty much spot on, on why accessibility ruined the game.

Oh and to those who say “wotlk had accessibility features and it increased subs” - Not really. Wotlk had badges which made you to play the game for many hours a time to buy one epic. These days you can get an epic doing regular quests. So please go away with your logic. Subs increased by the end of tbc but it flatlined during wotlk launch, with a small bump during uldular and Icecrown, after that it declined. Because “accessibility” easy epics for the noobs

bc had this and i don't see you complaining about bc.

[Shiza]

I don't think it's shit. Waiting a few minutes before you gather your group is not an issue for me at all and I honestly don't know anyone who ever complained about this.

This is also not what "timegate" means.

Depending on whether or not you found a tank or a healer, it could take half an afternoon to even get into one single dungeon. Not to forget what happened if your warrior only leveled as a DPS so far and had to skill up his one handed weapon first and then everyone had to get into the dungeons, which was especially obnoxious when you did Scarlet Monestary and barely anyone had a mount around that level. Being able to just queue in and play the actual game is a much better system and people are easily able to find guilds and communities to play socially. The point is more that most people just don't want to.

[Dormie]

If I want to do a dungeon in Classic, I keep an eye on the chat and usually it will pop up eventually. If I can't find a group instantly or that play session, big deal, there's other things to do.

[Osmeric]

but how does WoW make more money now, than in 2008 with 12 million subs?

It doesn't?

[Laughingjack]

It doesn't?

I think it does but its honestly impossible to tell... A LOT of the revenue moved into the cash shop and additional feature that were not a thing in 2008. It is one of those things people can argue about but no one will really know but a few people at the company.

[Mosha]

It doesn't?

Honestly I’m sure it does. Think about how much money they started making once they added the wow token. It doesn’t take long for those $20 wow tokens to add up especially when you have people spending hundreds of dollars by themselves to buy them. Not to even mention in game purchases like mounts and such. Back then, if you didn’t want to change your race or server every month, your only option was to just spend $15 a month and that’s it.

Games like fortnite and league of legends prove how much money come out of in game purchases. They get $0 for you to play the game. They got filthy filthy fucking rich off stupid shit like skins and such.

[Laughingjack]

Honestly I’m sure it does. Think about how much money they started making once they added the wow token. It doesn’t take long for those $20 wow tokens to add up especially when you have people spending hundreds of dollars by themselves to buy them. Not to even mention in game purchases like mounts and such. Back then, if you didn’t want to change your race or server every month, your only option was to just spend $15 a month and that’s it.

Games like fortnite and league of legends prove how much money come out of in game purchases. They get $0 for you to play the game. They got filthy filthy fucking rich off stupid shit like skins and such.

I will be honest I kinda wish more game companies went down the path riot did. If we must have cash shops they should be in free games and offer the kind of value lol and its brand products.