TBC Fresh 58's Only

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

Additionally, which might not be true for all comps but certain PVE items have strong set bonuses which will translate over to 2s/3s comps for S1. Thunderfury was also an extremely strong item (can't comment on Atiesh) and yes while people had it back then, it wasn't as widespread as it is now, all impacting gameplay. People have more time to prepare and god knows when TBC launches.

This is not an evolution of WoW from Vanilla to TBC, merely another version of the same game, there is no progression but it's very own entity.

If you knew TBC was something you would of preferred, why put all the effort in Classic, for the chances of your progress not being carried over?

Thunderfury was nerfed in less than 2 months after TBC release, Atiesh will be useless and even if people want to use some gimmick old PvE items (silence sword for example) in PvP they'll just farm it again at lvl 70 in no time.

I have many characters on Classic and I don't want to level every single character or professions again.
Also I don't want to farm 1-300 JC materials again, anyone who wanted to level JC in TBC just Googled "jewelcrafting guide" before release back then and there was full list of materials needed.

[Mosha]

Thunderfury was nerfed in less than 2 months after TBC release, Atiesh will be useless and even if people want to use some gimmick old PvE items (silence sword for example) in PvP they'll just farm it again at lvl 70 in no time.

I have many characters on Classic and I don't want to level every single character or professions again.
Also I don't want to farm 1-300 JC materials again, anyone who wanted to level JC in TBC just Googled "jewelcrafting guide" before release back then and there was full list of materials needed.

Whats funny is your comments can also work on the side of just having the level 58 copy lol. If you want those things that bad, even though they won't help you, you can farm it up in no time!

Also with the 58 option I can't see what the problem is with giving us a max professions as well (well up to the level 58 range anyway).

Regardless of what people want to spout off about "Back then it worked like..." this isn't back then... If it was just like 'back then' then what we see as 'classic' right now would be forced into tbc and no-one would be able to play the classic version again. Among a million other things this isn't the case...

In my opinion classic vanilla should be classic vanilla and stay that way. And classic tbc should just be classic tbc and stay that way. I would prefer the tbc version to just have a fresh start, roll whatever you want, start off at the point where tbc 'started' and just play along from there. There are a ton of positive things that come from that.

If they do have the transfer option it wouldn't bother me too much, unless they just allowed gold to come over, that's where it needs to be addressed with a gold cap of some sort. Only allowing you to bring over a couple hundred gold or something. There is literally NO good in my opinion to let someone bring over 50k gold they farmed out in classic into tbc and cause a whole bunch of issues just because people want their cake and to eat it too.

[Heathy]

what can you do with 50k gold?

buy boe's
buy mounts on your alts
buy crafted gear or mats
buy boosts

can you take over a server and stop ppl progressing with gold?

can you stop ppl running dungeons? heroics? karazhan? with 50k gold?

what exactly does the effect of 50k gold in your bags, have on my progression and gameplay? precisely. what is the actual effect of having ppl with a lot of gold in their bags do to other ppl on that server?

does someone having 50k gold stop me from farming the mats I need to make anything I want to make?

does someone buying flying skills on their alts affect my rate of progression or my gameplay in general?

i'm sure there are many ppl right now with 3, 4, 5 times as much gold as me but it isn't stopping me from clearing bwl week after week, with (currently) the fastest clear time on the server. will these ppl stop me from progressing in aq40 or naxx?

does someone having 50k gold stop me right now from farming my own arcane crystals? there are a lot of ppl farming herbs and mining nodes at the moment. servers have higher populations than they did the first time around, but I can get thorium veins in dire maul east, or zg. so even if there are too many ppl running around the burning steppes or the eastern plagues, I can just go farm instanced nodes. where only I can get those nodes.


you only need to buy crafted gear once. its a one time thing, you only need 1 set of crafted gear, you don't need multiple sets of the same crafted gear. so you need to buy it once. 1 time. per character that wants that gear. or just farm the mats yourself. which isn't difficult to achieve.


what are these 'whole bunch of issues' that you do not explain?

the fact remains there are a limited amount of gold sinks, and at a certain point the only place you can sink your fortune is into your alts. that is it. your alts do not stop me from progressing through the game, you having more gold than me, does not stop me progressing through the game. how much gold anyone has in their bags, does not change the gameplay at all.

the average amount of gold players need to get their flying skill is by default higher than it is in classic, you needed 1000g in classic, you need over 5000g in tbc, the average amount of gold you need to farm is higher, by default, because the gold sinks are larger by default. the fact remains though that no one has 50,000g and if they do I'd like to see a screenshot of this rather than this number being pulled out of someone asshole. even if someone does have this much gold, they would be one of few ppl that do. not everyone has this much gold. not even close.

there are 15 dungeons in tbc 16 with magister terrace. heroics reset daily. you can get saved to each an every heroic once per day, you can farm an insane amount of mats and badges by getting saved to these dungeons once per day, for multiple weeks or months in a row. the normal versions of these dungeons work the same way they do in classic, you can run a dungeon 5 times every 1hr. it will not take long at all before the amount of gold you had at the end of classic means nothing. whether that is 1k or 10k at some point the only thing you can do with it is spend it on your alts. as there are only so many things you can buy for gold that will further your progression on one character. a single character doesn't have an infinite gold sink there is a hard limit on how much you can improve a single character, with gold.

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

Whats funny is your comments can also work on the side of just having the level 58 copy lol. If you want those things that bad, even though they won't help you, you can farm it up in no time!
There is literally NO good in my opinion to let someone bring over 50k gold they farmed out in classic into tbc and cause a whole bunch of issues just because people want their cake and to eat it too.

I didn't say you can farm JC materials fast. But I'm fine with fresh start if they let us choose professions with 300 skill and with all recipes + materials to level JC up to 300.

Well, considering that ppl did transfer with tens of thousand of gold into TBC without any issue, how would it be an issue now? I don't get it why everyone assumes every average Joe has 50k gold sitting on their bags. If that would be the case herbs and other materials would cost way more now than they did during vanilla. But the truth is herbs, ores, etc. cost nearly the same they did in 2006.

[Mosha]

I didn't say you can farm JC materials fast. But I'm fine with fresh start if they let us choose professions with 300 skill and with all recipes + materials to level JC up to 300.

Well, considering that ppl did transfer with tens of thousand of gold into TBC without any issue, how would it be an issue now? I don't get it why everyone assumes every average Joe has 50k gold sitting on their bags. If that would be the case herbs and other materials would cost way more now than they did during vanilla. But the truth is herbs, ores, etc. cost nearly the same they did in 2006.

I'm talking about the other things you said you could get fast if you wanted them.

Well, considering that ppl did transfer with tens of thousand of gold into TBC without any issue, how would it be an issue now?

No dude... don't even start with this nonsense I will not even give this argument the time of day. If you are acting like it is in any way shape or form the same I'm not going to waste my time discussing reality with you.

I don't get it why everyone assumes every average Joe has 50k gold sitting on their bags.

It's not the everyone has it, it's that a TON of people have this amount of gold, and you know it. In my guild alone there are at least 20 people that I know of that have over 30k or somewhere in that area. In vanilla this was unheard of. Having 6k gold in vanilla was like a 'holy fuck this guy here look at him'. Christ a majority of players didn't even have epic riding. Even more so, the majority of players weren't even 60 yet. If you hit 60 in vanilla you were already in the minority.

If that would be the case herbs and other materials would cost way more now than they did during vanilla. But the truth is herbs, ores, etc. cost nearly the same they did in 2006.

No they do not. Things are mega inflated right now.

Look at things like black lotus or if you want to get super crazy look at something like edgemasters. Edgemasters sells for something like 4k gold? That would have literally NEVER sold in vanilla. Even if they knew the min/max potential of it.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070114...om/?item=13468

Look at the average AH price for black lotus on this wayback machine here. 10g on average and if you go to the comments some people even talk about the prices. Right now they are closer to 200g.

[Mosha]

I would actually not play and cancel my sub if any of this happened, I have now for months put effort into a paladin I want to have in TBC. I can say this now and I'm sure there are many in the same boat, I only play classic for TBC now that's its coming out I am going to ensure my paladin is Naxx geared going in. If I was forced to start a new toon with none of the things I earned in classic, blizzard would lose my sub for both classic and tbc.

No you wouldn't if you are only playing for tbc you would be right back on your horse if they made the 58 level option lets not kid ourselves.

Let's be real here shall we

[Heathy]

the items just aren't hard to farm in tbc, you have way more ways of getting primals than singular farm spots, and flasks were handed out like candy from aldor or scryer. you barely needed to make any. and you have transmute masters and elixir masters anyway. they significantly toned down the effort involved in getting raid consumables. I was an elixir master, it was much much much easier to find fel lotus compared to black lotus, you got them in any herb and they had their own spawn spots, and getting multiple flasks from a single craft wasn't uncommon. and those marks of the illidari dropped quite often. i mostly passed on them.

[justandulas]

If someone starts 60 and with naxx gear, who cares? They earned it. You did not (the fresh 58’s)

Why strip them of their hard work just because you didn’t wanna put the grind in?

[Mosha]

If someone starts 60 and with naxx gear, who cares? They earned it. You did not (the fresh 58’s)

Why strip them of their hard work just because you didn’t wanna put the grind in?

I personally don't care about that, I just care about the gold. It needs a reset.

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

Look at the average AH price for black lotus on this wayback machine here. 10g on average and if you go to the comments some people even talk about the prices. Right now they are closer to 200g.

Look at Firebloom prices from 2006 https://classic.wowhead.com/item=462...nts:id=2654568 40g stack.



The point is you can't just pick a random comment and think it's how vanilla was. You are missing the fact that servers were smaller and not every server even had raiders who did past BWL so they never used flasks/consumables that much.

For instance, my very first server (Alonsus EU) didn't have AQ opened even in patch 1.12
I moved to PvP server and prices were high because there were many raiding guilds.

[Kralljin]

the items just aren't hard to farm in tbc, you have way more ways of getting primals than singular farm spots

Do tell, curious about that one.

and flasks we're handed out like candy from aldor or scryer.

1.Those were not implemented until 2.1 (BT Patch)
2.Those didn't work in Karazhan / Gruul's Lair / Magtheridon

The chances of those being available right off the bat is close to nil.
So even if they use the same release schedule for TBC (similiar to how they're handling Classic), you're not getting those until ~5 months into TBC.

Small trivia: Casters still had to use Supreme Power, not with updated reagents but Vanilla ones before 2.1.

Inflation will always be a bad thing in TBC it is in retail and in Classic, the thing is people have learned how to farm for gold like its a joke, I myself can put 3 to 4 hours aside a week and make 1000g in classic like it is nothing

People that abused Layering to gather Black Lotus smirk at this.

Back to the AH do I think TBC wi be fucked? Yes I do, myself I already have a ton with everything to get to 300 JC day 1 on my main town for when I go through the portal to start leveling my JC to take advantage off early gems.

Honestly? I expected more, this idea is one of the more tame (and obvious) ones.

If someone starts 60 and with naxx gear, who cares? They earned it. You did not (the fresh 58’s)

My personal preference would be to wipe the slate clean economy wise, gear and other vanity items can stay however.

[Mosha]

Look at Firebloom prices from 2006 https://classic.wowhead.com/item=462...nts:id=2654568 40g stack.

The point is you can't just pick random comment and think it's how vanilla was. You are missing the fact that servers were smaller and not every server even had raiders who did past BWL so they never used flasks/consumables that much.

For instance, my very first server (Alonsus EU) didn't have AQ opened even in patch 1.12
I moved to PvP server and prices were high because there were many raiding guilds.

Ok just looked up firebloom and it seems on average that price has increased by more than double, so what exactly were you getting at?

The point is you can't just pick random comment and think it's how vanilla was. You are missing the fact that servers were smaller and not every server even had raiders who did past BWL so they never used flasks/consumables that much.

Wait, so your point is that now you understand it's inflated but you just dismiss it as people are raiding more? So is there inflation or not because you have now said both things. And yeah, it has increased more, and yeah people are raiding more. But the price didn't just magically increase because people are raiding more, that is silly, if people don't have the money to buy it then they can't buy it regardless of how much they are raiding. The prices are going up because more people have more gold which increases the prices server wide.

The average gold today is astronomically higher than it was back then, so suggesting it's the 'same thing' allowing this gold to transfer over into tbc is nothing short of asinine.

For instance, my very first server (Alonsus EU) didn't have AQ opened even in patch 1.12

You mean to tell me that a server that was opened up 6 months after the AQ patch and 2 months before 1.12 didn't have the gates opened in 1.12? You don't say LOL. I'm not even sure what point you were trying to prove here, but you didn't do it.

[Heathy]

motes drop from their respective elemental, or herbs, they can drop in dungeons.

I didn't always use flasks it seems as a priest, looking over my screenshots I always had foodbuffs because I did fishing and cooking, I always had mana potions. but on my earlier screenshots I used healing power + draenic wisdom combos. I wondered why in some shots I didn't have a flask buff icon but I guess i must have died and lost the elixirs instead.

I always had mana oils aswell, they didn't seem to be too expensive, from my earliest screen shot to my latest tbc screenshot my gold only went up. up up up up. in terms of enchanting mats i'm pretty sure tbc was when you could greed for DE.

lets face it t4 wasn't that difficult, vashj and kael thas were difficult, t4 not so much. trash in t5 was harder than t4.

https://imgur.com/a/gKOmi8B


I picked out some screenshots of my progression the important part is my gold ofc, my earliest screenshot from that time, I had 800g ish, i had t5, before I had the epic flying skill. I recovered from that 5k gold sink quite quickly by the time i was doing t6. first time at archimonde and i'm pretty much back up to 5k again with only alts to spend significant amount of gold on.

[Kralljin]

motes drop from their respective elemental

...Which mostly spawn in the outdoor world?
You said

the items just aren't hard to farm in tbc, you have way more ways of getting primals than singular farm spots

Go, name them.

or herbs, they can drop in dungeons.

TBC dungeons aren't as open as Classic ones, There won't be a DM: East where you can collect up to four herb nodes without aggroing a single mob on every class.

lets face it t4 wasn't that difficult, vashj and kael thas were difficult, t4 not so much. trash in t5 was harder than t4.

It was so easy, that Blizzard nerfed it multiple times.

If T4 comes out with its original tuning (ignoring any bugs), Magtheridon will be a reasonable challenge for your average guild.

[Heathy]

which primals do you want my dude because you farm elementals, then https://www.wowhead.com/search?q=transmute+primal < transmute whatever the fuck primal you want into any other primal. ez gg no re. a lot of motes do drop from elementals in INSTANCES/DUNGEONS that the name you are looking for, run dungeons, farm motes, make primals. not difficult, read a guide.

they didn't release classic with any of its original bugs and i'm guessing tbc is going to be without bugs too at least not any specific ones required to recreate any diffculty, I would like release heroic difficulty, because ill have t3 most likely, or at least some of it assuming we keep playing and progressing right now. classic is on 1.12 ofc so i'm guessing we're getting 2.4 maybe. if thats what they wanted the game to ultimately be, in the same way 1,12 is what they, ultimately wanted classic to be. in their overall vision.

are we getting tbc without spell power and then having a patch come along and give us spellpower, probably no. it'll be spellpower from the beginning I think.

[Kralljin]

which primals do you want my dude because you farm elementals, then https://www.wowhead.com/search?q=transmute+primal < transmute whatever the fuck primal you want into any other primal. ez gg no re.

Transmutes share a 20hour CD.

Not sure if those shared a CD with Transmute Primal Might, which kills your idea right off the bat, because no one will use their transmute CD just to create an Element, while Transmute is the sole source of Primal Might.

And if they don't, you're still just transmuting a single Element per day and you can't even choose the element you want.
Depending on the Element you have / want, you have to jump through up to four seperate transmutes.

[Heathy]

so what you're saying is that playing an mmo takes time, no way, i'm blown away by this revelation.

[Mosha]

Transmutes share a 20hour CD.

Not sure if those shared a CD with Transmute Primal Might, which kills your idea right off the bat, because no one will use their transmute CD just to create an Element, while Transmute is the sole source of Primal Might.

And if they don't, you're still just transmuting a single Element per day and you can't even choose the element you want.
Depending on the Element you have / want, you have to jump through up to four seperate transmutes.

Heaty talks as if he has no idea what he is talking about when it comes to tbc. I'm not sure if he is trolling or not tbh

[Kralljin]

so what you're saying is that playing an mmo takes time, no way, i'm blown away by this revelation.

Just undermines your point that transmutes are a solution to this problem.

For example, Primal Fire (presumably the most valueable one) can only be transmuted from Air and Mana, neither of those are that easy to farm by comparison.
The only transmute really worth going for is the Earth => Water one, that one however involves Sporeggar rep farm.

They're not really a huge factor, that's the point, especially if you want a large amount of those primals.

[Heathy]

the point is really that its gunna take you longer than 20 hrs to get your BiS crafted set whichever way you cut it, and if you have to farm gold instead of motes, i mean, its a one time thing right, you only need to do it once and you're done. whether you're the first or last person in your guild doesn't really matter you alone aren't going to bottleneck your guilds progression because its taken you the longest to get your BiS crafted pieces.

it matters not if you have to buy primals from others because there will always be someone willing to sell their primal for the minimal amount of effort required to get that primal, even if that means some alchemist that isn't using their transmute uses their transmute. or just any random joe really playing the game and selling their crap they don't need for things they do need. you can save up over time and pick motes from the auction house, I'm pretty sure I didn't have issues personally with primals, shadow I think dropped in dungeons you could also do shadow to water. I think the price of mights dropped off at some point iirc, there may have been a saturation that kept them at a certain price. its pretty vague to me now, the specifics of my servers economy from that time, but I really don't think there will be any significant issues in farming the items you need, even partially.

it could be that you have to farm dungeons for a while if the amount of players makes questing difficult. I know I will if i can't get quest mobs ill just farm instances. but that was one of the best parts of tbc anyway you did farm a lot of instances. many times.

Heaty talks as if he has no idea what he is talking about when it comes to tbc. I'm not sure if he is trolling or not tbh

except I did, play through it, without a gold reset or character reset or everyone starting at 58.