Awakened and mythic +10 dungeons as a tank

[Zantera]

Like others have said the idea that its better to leave a failed run than to stick it out because it will show a failed key on your r.io history is beyond stupid. Nobody looks at your history. All people are interested in is what your score is and how many +15s or +20s you have timed and that's about it. If for some reason you get that 1 guy out of 1000 players who wants to micro study all your keys, if anything I'd say having some failed keys shows that you've at least tried to push keys but shit happens and there's 5 people in every group so a depletion could boil down to anything.

I'd rather take a pug who has a few depleted keys than someone who has 100% successful runs because that's pretty sketchy and that's the type of guy who will probably leave after a wipe.

[srathgar]

I pugged more than 100 dungeons as a tank so I know what healers and dps do. Of course they need to know mobs, bosses and how to play but they have not to learn any route. I joined some Mecha m+ with an alt dps I have, never seen them, didn’t even know what mobs and bosses did, we finished with a +2 always and I topped the charts. I’m not cool in the slightest, just to say that at least knowing the route is completely redundant if you’re not a tank. You’ll just pew pew what the tank pulls trying to stay safe and gg.

I don’t think I’ll start tanking 10+ and also in SL if the 4th affix forces me to relearn routes.

I really hate timers but I don’t think they are going away anytime soon.

If your DPS have any desire to do their job 100% and not just 50-70% then they need to know the route to know when to use their cooldowns efficiently. This may not matter in +9, but it is definently a thing when you get higher.

[ClassicPeon]

Hey again guys. So i'm back after having done like 5 m10+ runs as a tank.

Obviously its less daunting now but i honestly still think its too complicated and now i have some experience to back it up.

So far 70% of the people i have pugged with simply do not know how the different awakened monsters are handled. I'm not comparing this to previous 10+ affixes but just in general, it could do with something where people who dont really give a shit dont need to be so accountable. My experience so far have mostly been that dps people even with decent gear and above 1200 raider IO score really just dont care much about the actual basic strategies of bossfights or how you deal with different affixes.

The idea about skipping some of the more annoying packs seem interesting to me, but its always the same packs that are being skipped. This leads me to believe that the packs in question is the issue and not the convenience the affix gives you. In some cases doing a 10+ is easier then doing a 9+ because some specific packs are just really annoying to deal with.

So i get the appeal of skipping some of the trash but i still dont think its a great addition as an affix. Imo it would be better to hotfix the pulls that people deem so nessesary to skip that rogues are mandatory and then maybe come up with some other kiss/curse affix that doesnt have to be so daunting for new tank players.

Edit:

Would also like to add one thing here. Waycrest Manor sucks imo. We got an unlucky door openings and even though we knew the routes that would open up we had to clear so much extra trash because of that. The dps in the group where all around 25-30k and some died on bosses so we ended up +1'ing it with like 1 min to spare. We could probably have +2 or 3'd it with a more generous route. That kinda sucked.

[Hellobolis]

two ways:
2. your dungeon history has a failed run listed on it.

but they still get loot if you finish the dungeon anyways, which in the 15 range is often doable. kinda curious to see if the run will still show up then. might have to try it sometime.

- - - Updated - - -

So far 70% of the people i have pugged with simply do not know how the different awakened monsters are handled.

yeah sometimes you have to say "just run" or something to your group. but hey at least now you know that a lot of people just yolo it without worrying overly much. it'll get better once you start playing with 2k io people and at higher keys.

The idea about skipping some of the more annoying packs seem interesting to me, but its always the same packs that are being skipped. This leads me to believe that the packs in question is the issue and not the convenience the affix gives you. In some cases doing a 10+ is easier then doing a 9+ because some specific packs are just really annoying to deal with.

So i get the appeal of skipping some of the trash but i still dont think its a great addition as an affix. Imo it would be better to hotfix the pulls that people deem so nessesary to skip that rogues are mandatory and then maybe come up with some other kiss/curse affix that doesnt have to be so daunting for new tank players.

really depends on the dungeon. a lot of dungeons are very linear so you don't get much choice. but something like atal dazar or waycrest manor gives you quite a lot of options. but as with anything people have figured out the optimal way of doing it.

Would also like to add one thing here. Waycrest Manor sucks imo.

yeah there is a huge difference in that place if the left or right doors open. been that way forever. dungeon designer must think of himself as super clever or something.

[ID811717]

but they still get loot if you finish the dungeon anyways, which in the 15 range is often doable. kinda curious to see if the run will still show up then. might have to try it sometime.

Been there, finished dungeons even 3-man. The leavers do show up everywhere.

[Trend]

two ways:
1. your score is lower for a failed run than for a successful run (assuming you don't already have a higher run for that dungeon)
2. your dungeon history has a failed run listed on it.

if you don't think that there are people who will bail on a dungeon if it won't time in order to prevent a failed timer showing up in their dungeon history, you're completely ignorant of the behavior of people in the community.
if you don't know that failing to make a timer is a different rating to your .io score from making a timer, you don't understand how the .io system works.

people don't ditch out of groups 3 bosses in because of dungeon design, they do it because they don't want a failed timer on their .io history.

What key range are you talking about? Between Legion and BfA I've pugged hundred of keys up to 20's and I've not seen what you're describing.

[Nzx]

Just popping in to remind everyone that Awakened is still the best seasonal affix Blizzard have ever put in the game. All of the complaining I've seen in here seems to boil down to "I'm bad and I don't want to get better in order to do harder content so Blizzard should nerf the content instead". I think the biggest problem here is that people watch MDI and see the pulls people do there and assume that they have to do the same thing to time a +10, when they blatantly don't. You could pull one pack at a time, skip no trash, kill all of the obelisks right where they spawn, probably still wipe once or twice AND make the timer on a +10. Stop getting so hung up on shit that doesn't even apply to the part of the game you're trying to play.

By the way, I've seen people say they don't want to watch videos, refuse to use MDT to plan things in advance, and refuse to actually practice by trial and error. If that's the case, what do you actually want to do? Do you want Blizzard to somehow download the perfect M+ route for every dungeon directly into your brain along with every patch cycle? Have you considered that maybe, if you refuse to read, watch, or do yourself, you shouldn't be as good at something as someone who will do those things?

[badgersmashr]

My only comment for you op is that this is primarily a game of knowledge, compared to most others, it is generous with time and reaction speed. So if you don't want to gain the knowledge beforehand, even though it is freely given and readily available, then you are at the mercy of the consequences of said choice. It isn't ideal but that is where the community has gone. People aren't interested in wasting their time for low reward and teaching someone they will never meet again. There is no incentive for them to not be shitty, but there is a punishment for when things go bad.

[ID811717]

You could pull one pack at a time, skip no trash, kill all of the obelisks right where they spawn, probably still wipe once or twice AND make the timer on a +19.

I fixed that for you. You'll literally see this happen in no-voice +19 key pugs.
Don't forget that in MDI they are doing +19s in 10-15 min each. The 3-chest timer in AD is 18:00 min, and Method EU did it in time trials within 9:44 min.

[Nzx]

I fixed that for you. You'll literally see this happen in no-voice +19 key pugs.
Don't forget that in MDI they are doing +19s in 10-15 min each. The 3-chest timer in AD is 18:00 min, and Method EU did it in time trials within 9:44 min.

You're right of course, but the mere mention of completing a +19 key on this forum makes you a toxic elitist with no idea "what it's like" for people with <800 io and five lifetime +10 completions. It's just a big circlejerk of people who want to be handed success without effort, who get confronted with the answers to their perceived problems and respond by saying those aren't the answers they want so they're going to keep complaining.

[FiveDkp]

I fixed that for you. You'll literally see this happen in no-voice +19 key pugs.
Don't forget that in MDI they are doing +19s in 10-15 min each. The 3-chest timer in AD is 18:00 min, and Method EU did it in time trials within 9:44 min.

I'd say definitely with a lot of the posters complaining about it is that either a) they don't put in the effort or b) they expect pugs to put in the effort. Given that I've done a lot of M+ tanking and dps with and without MDT being used. The serious ones came at about 16-17s. More of the groups that weren't so great were at 13-15.

With some of my runs, I have to call out to said dps to CC a target to interrupt. People don't realise the tools that they have available to them to make the dungeon so much easier. I've had a few DHs who didn't know to imprison the grubs on UR to stop Rotten Bile. However, I had this godly holy paladin who blinding light, hoj'ed them every time which i was impressed with.

Like with my IO - i don't expect to have 3k IO because I know I don't put in that much effort. I've realised that I should use MDT a lot more and looking in this thread - there are actual paths which i can use. Also, I do self-reflect after runs on what I did wrong and what I can do better.

[ClassicPeon]

Just popping in to remind everyone that Awakened is still the best seasonal affix Blizzard have ever put in the game. All of the complaining I've seen in here seems to boil down to "I'm bad and I don't want to get better in order to do harder content so Blizzard should nerf the content instead". I think the biggest problem here is that people watch MDI and see the pulls people do there and assume that they have to do the same thing to time a +10, when they blatantly don't. You could pull one pack at a time, skip no trash, kill all of the obelisks right where they spawn, probably still wipe once or twice AND make the timer on a +10. Stop getting so hung up on shit that doesn't even apply to the part of the game you're trying to play.

By the way, I've seen people say they don't want to watch videos, refuse to use MDT to plan things in advance, and refuse to actually practice by trial and error. If that's the case, what do you actually want to do? Do you want Blizzard to somehow download the perfect M+ route for every dungeon directly into your brain along with every patch cycle? Have you considered that maybe, if you refuse to read, watch, or do yourself, you shouldn't be as good at something as someone who will do those things?

I really dont understand the need to be so toxic. I know there is some on both sides but i really dont feel like i've brought the whine needed for that amount of toxicity. This is basicly the reason i had issues venturing into m+10 at the start, people like you.

"LoL dont voice your concerns, you are just a bad player"

If you actually read the comments i've made it has nothing to do with the difficulty of the content.

[Caerrona]

I really dont understand the need to be so toxic. I know there is some on both sides but i really dont feel like i've brought the whine needed for that amount of toxicity. This is basicly the reason i had issues venturing into m+10 at the start, people like you.

"LoL dont voice your concerns, you are just a bad player"

If you actually read the comments i've made it has nothing to do with the difficulty of the content.

To be fair the person you quoted isn't really being toxic. This is the simple case of not having everyone on the planet agree with the OP and then they play the victim card. "You disagree thats soooo toxic"

Every post in this thread is
"op just do 10s they are easy"

"But but but awakened routes!"

"You don't even need routes for 10s"

"But but but my feelings"

"We have given you everything you need to do 10s"

"YOUR SO TOXIC REEEEEEEEEE"

Kinda understandable people are over your shitty attitude.

[ClassicPeon]

To be fair the person you quoted isn't really being toxic. This is the simple case of not having everyone on the planet agree with the OP and then they play the victim card. "You disagree thats soooo toxic"

Every post in this thread is
"op just do 10s they are easy"

"But but but awakened routes!"

"You don't even need routes for 10s"

"But but but my feelings"

"We have given you everything you need to do 10s"

"YOUR SO TOXIC REEEEEEEEEE"

Kinda understandable people are over your shitty attitude.

I am the OP.

And to be fair you are being even more toxic

And to top that off i did crawl out of the cesspit of toxicity that is your very being and do 10's and it was exactly as i thought it would be. People either not knowing what to do, or people complaining about other people not knowing what to do.

I'm not gonna go down to your level but i'm 90% sure i'm a better player then you are. So keep being toxic and keep living in mediocrazy.

[erifwodahs]

yeah there is a huge difference in that place if the left or right doors open. been that way forever. dungeon designer must think of himself as super clever or something.

There is only like 30s difference now actually. You always use the stairs pillar to go to Sisters/wtiches boss. it's just how fast you get there depends on the doors. Tho you just snap the mob and that's it. You can choose to go to the mobs just before witches as us the BL there if it's forty. But you basically do that every time.

[ClassicPeon]

There is only like 30s difference now actually. You always use the stairs pillar to go to Sisters/wtiches boss. it's just how fast you get there depends on the doors. Tho you just snap the mob and that's it. You can choose to go to the mobs just before witches as us the BL there if it's forty. But you basically do that every time.

Is that a permanent thing now? The stairs and outside house stuff?

[Caerrona]

I am the OP.

And to be fair you are being even more toxic

And to top that off i did crawl out of the cesspit of toxicity that is your very being and do 10's and it was exactly as i thought it would be. People either not knowing what to do, or people complaining about other people not knowing what to do.

I'm not gonna go down to your level but i'm 90% sure i'm a better player then you are. So keep being toxic and keep living in mediocrazy.

Cant do 10s

Claims they are better than anyone at all in the game.

Lol

All i hear is reeeeeeeeeeeeee lfr is hard, 10s are hard, blizzard nerf plz

[erifwodahs]

Is that a permanent thing now? The stairs and outside house stuff?

I mean you could always go to 3 witches boss regardless on which doors were open, it's just that the pillar at the start now allows you to go there from the start. It is really nice BL usage: Tyra? Use BL on witches. Forty? Use BL on trash outside the witches. Then clear the trash in the yard kill the boss and do a BL for trash from the kitchen as you can pull them out safely into the yard and kill them there. If it's tyra you then kill the trash from the kitchen and the yard until bl is back up and BL Tree boss. Kill Piggy and then run to Lady Waycrest using pillar. BL is up for the last boss and the spider miniboss. You don't have to go upstairds and kill any mobs there as those are kinda inefficient and tiny corridors are cancer.

[Trend]

i did ... do 10's and it was exactly as i thought it would be. People either not knowing what to do, or people complaining about other people not knowing what to do.

10's do not tend to be representative of the better side of the mythic+ experience. Most people who know what they're doing are not doing 10's. I help friends in 10's from time to time and I have found the same thing as you.

There is more pressure on tanks to have knowledge coming into a dungeon. That is, I am sure, related to why a lot of people do not want to tank. I do not think awakened is a problem, I actually think it's really good, but it is understandable that it would feel like just another thing you have to learn to tank keys.

On the positive side, if you do learn how to tank keys, you can get groups all day long and do whatever keys you want (appropriate to you level and experience) in contrast to dps who tend to get declined due to being in overabundance.

[Autoriot]

Hey guys

I've returned to wow and have been playing for aboyt 1,5 months. I'm a tank and i almost solely run m+.

I like it. I have most of the dungeons down by now. But i only run +7-+9 keys.

I have 461 ilvl and could easily tank 10-12 keys, but i just cant be bothered learning the specific routes for dungeons from a video(the general concensus seems to be that tanks need to know them by heart, and not ask about them). I wouldnt mind learning them while doing it, but there is no low level version you can stroll through and learn this in. This is solely +10 and people have expectations from a tank.

Now, its not really the same problem as learning the other affixes, because i can literally just read on them what they do, and by that know what i need to do. But thats not the case for this one. It brings a LOT of complexity for no real gain outside of MDI(as far as i see it).

Am i completely alone in this? I really hate that affix

This seasonal affix is great, but does create a huge learning curve (more so for tanks) once you hit 10+.

Some suggestions:

- DPS some 10-12 keys and watch another tank do the routing to see it for yourself and/or watch Youtube videos. You don't memorize all the pulls exactly, but you should know which pillars to kite and where. You can always go back and pull a little more trash here or there, but starting a pillar and not taking it across the zone (Motherlode for example) will get your group ticked off at you.

- Tell the group when you join that you're not familiar with that specific key on Awakened and ask for guidance along the way. If they kick you, at least you were honest and you're a tank, you'll find something else just fine. If they're okay with you being new, they'll help you out or at least they can't complain if things don't go their way.

- Clear to pillars, kill them where they stand. Pop back out. This will work fine if you're not trying to time keys and just complete them, but the group may be ticked if you miss the timer due to this method and didn't say anything. I'd announce that beforehand you're doing it this way for simplicity but that you will complete the dungeon either way. If they're okay with that, then good. If not, you'll get kicked or hear about it from them and can work on it from there.

- Join a guild (or request from current guild) and ask for some help in learning it

IF you don't say anything and don't put in any effort or time to research it, then just hope and pray it goes well... when it inevitably doesn't and the group likely gets upset with you, you deal with it however you like but don't be surprised. DPS can't do all the pulling and force your character to go places within the pillars, and often don't want to be typing instructions to you the whole time. So yes, it is added tank stress, so you manage it somehow.