How to tell when a Mythic Tank is a Baddie

[potis]

Saying threat is an issue when you are at 40 necrotic stacks and DPS starts pulling extra mobs is ridiculous, because it doesn't at all describe the issue.
I dont know man, your perception seems a bit skewed, everyone's talking about this "shit-dps". I have pugged to +17/18 keys in 7.3.5 as a tank and currently have a tank sitting at +16/+17 keys done and a dps at +18/19 keys. And let me tell you, the tanks are way more often the issue. Regarding your caster comment, if you pull properly, with LoS in mind, you can easily eliminate this issue. So while the dps are not kicking the mob, you are probably also not moving 10yds to LoS the caster mob...

His perception isnt exactly skewed, they are in the cesspool of the game, which is averagely the 95-99% of the players, realistically its more like the 99% of the players but there is a good bunch that plays with guilds/communities only so they are safe, still terrible, but safe from the rest.

He said it himself that he is barely doing +11s, which still for the 95%, its an accomplishment, but still part of the cesspool, things are widely different.

Thats the only thing mmo-champion has taught me the last few years, that what the 1-5% of the playerbase considers irrelevant difficulty content or how they view the game/progression of it/raiding the rest consider it some grand life gaming achievement.

[Azadina]

I am 465+ with alot of BIS stuff. I know how to play my class.

I never know if its me noving up keys too fast, or I changed something I shouldnt have with gear/talent/essense/trait combos

I dont know want to know so I can flame the tank

My oh my the contradictions... Let's start with italics: You far outgear the keys you claim you are doing. So your theory of moving up keys too fast is sketchy at best.

Bolded. This one is funny. You know how to play your class. Fantastic. How then can you NOT know if you have done something wrong with your gear/talents/essence/trait combos?

Underlined; Now we finally got to the heart of the matter. You just want to blame someone else for all the failures you are making.

[Thzz]

^^^^^ ok

[Medsy]

This was a good read. Some great tips on avoiding bad tanks!

[Ichology]

As someone who has pushed on all roles into high keys (20-24), my only initial thought was, you're likely as much if not more of the problem than the bad tanks you are complaining about. There isn't a proper word to describe the difference in skill it takes to push high keys on a tank as opposed to a healer, or especially (and it's my main role), a dps.

I recently pugged a tank through 15's after coming back, and the amount of shit that got thrown against me (doing strats that are commonly used in actual high keys) by overly egotistical, mediocre players was staggering. It's easy to understand why there are so few tanks in the scene between the responsibility (in high keys, you optimizing your dps is AS important as the dps, on top of every other aspect of the role, and setting the pace in general) and the bottom of the barrel scum that have no idea what they are talking about, yet point fingers at you.

At least you do heal, though. I'd half expected you to be a havoc main managing to pull sub-40/50k overall in 10-15's.

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Saying threat is an issue when you are at 40 necrotic stacks and DPS starts pulling extra mobs is ridiculous, because it doesn't at all describe the issue.
I dont know man, your perception seems a bit skewed, everyone's talking about this "shit-dps". I have pugged to +17/18 keys in 7.3.5 as a tank and currently have a tank sitting at +16/+17 keys done and a dps at +18/19 keys. And let me tell you, the tanks are way more often the issue. Regarding your caster comment, if you pull properly, with LoS in mind, you can easily eliminate this issue. So while the dps are not kicking the mob, you are probably also not moving 10yds to LoS the caster mob...

Tanks can carry 15-20's harder than any other role, though, so you're theory of shitty tanking being why your dps has managed higher keys than your tank helps confirm your argument.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

It's really sad that this is the tank's job... Knowing which mobs need to die first is something one would think the DPS should know on their own.

Knowing which mobs to kill first / knowing when it's ok to AoE everything instead / knowing what NEEDS to be interrupted and what can be let through 100% IS the job of the Dps, not the Tank.

And anybody trying to tell you otherwise are shitters who should be ashamed of themselves and rethink their entire life.

[Moonsorrow]

Tanks can carry 15-20's harder than any other role, though, so you're theory of shitty tanking being why your dps has managed higher keys than your tank helps confirm your argument.

That is an interessting opinion, could you elaborate on that?
In my experience in 15+ as a tank, it usually depends on the dps being capable of downing the pulls befor tank and healer can't handle it anymore. And lower dps means smaller pulls and the key might not be in time. I totally agree with you that in lower keys a tank that knows the route can guide a group throug the dungeons as usually the pulls are not that dangerous and the dps is less relevant.

[Thzz]

You are playing the only healer class that should not be pugging.

yeah, purposefully decided to tune out this and other info I heard like that. I instead just forged ahead with Holy.

with my mostly purchased gear, worked my way up to +11s +12s pretty quickly without much trouble hoping to get to at least 15s. Hit a wall at 11s/12s.

I can clear with at least an avg group, but wow SOOOOO much effort . plus with horrid movement skills, im trying desperately to keep group alive too often I either have to ignore a mech till an importance spell finishes or just spazz and blow myself up with some avoidable damage in the mad rush to keep everyone up.

also noticed that I get lot more no invites, up to 10s almost always got instant invite.

Sadly I dont wont to re-roll another class, so kind stuck where I am

maybe Holy's will get paid back in Shadowlands and groups will be begging us to heal. Initial stuff I read says lolz, no holy will still suck. who knows lots can change between PTR and launch.

[melzas]

I was in similar position to you OP, just when lockdown started (about 2 months ago). Decided to solo progress my m+ score, starting at 0, 100% pugging and playing a healer. I'm doing 17-18s now.

There are multiple spot on posts in this thread so I'm not going to repeat them, but I want to point out, that very often it's also DPS not doing their job properly that causes wipes/tank deaths. There is plenty of things DPS should be doing other than just damage, most importantly interrupts (including hard cc to stop most dangerous casts), surviving, dispelling (both purges and defensive dispels that can't be covered by healer, like monks dispelling diseases for shaman healer, or mages decursing for paladin healer etc.).

It all piles up and when 3/5 party members are slacking and "only dpsing" or "only healing" then the whole run is getting sluggish and tank starts to struggle.

The hardest part of solo pugging m+ progres is getting over +15. Once you clear first couple of M15 and it reflects in your Rio, you will notice the quality of your groups to sky rocket.

[tehealadin]

Usually I side with tanks and give them the benefit of the doubt. Only just started tanking in BFA (used to do it in each of the expansions but god fed up of peoples bullshit) with my druid and DK, I know it is the most stressful job, and when I feel I need to say something I try to keep it constructive.

That said, was doing SotS +12 earlier, tank kept making silly mistakes, not pulling groups back and then having other groups aggro, the run fell apart near the end when he stopped the pillar boss at the end in between the non elite tentacles so that when he came out they call aggroed at once. He was loaded with dots and we assumed he would park the boss at a better spot, but just as it was about to die (still loaded with dots) he moved it bang in the middle. The healer and a dpser (whose key it was) just went apeshit and left. Tank didn't grasp why this was a bad idea.

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It all piles up and when 3/5 party members are slacking and "only dpsing" or "only healing" then the whole run is getting sluggish and tank starts to struggle.

Yea this is annoying. When I am dpsing on my druid as boomkin, I always decurse, always use defensives and will off heal at points too, mainly on myself, dps have a responsibility to do that they can to keep themselves alive, insisting that it is only the healers problem is such a pain.

[potis]

yeah, purposefully decided to tune out this and other info I heard like that. I instead just forged ahead with Holy.

with my mostly purchased gear, worked my way up to +11s +12s pretty quickly without much trouble hoping to get to at least 15s. Hit a wall at 11s/12s.

I can clear with at least an avg group, but wow SOOOOO much effort . plus with horrid movement skills, im trying desperately to keep group alive too often I either have to ignore a mech till an importance spell finishes or just spazz and blow myself up with some avoidable damage in the mad rush to keep everyone up.

also noticed that I get lot more no invites, up to 10s almost always got instant invite.

Sadly I dont wont to re-roll another class, so kind stuck where I am

maybe Holy's will get paid back in Shadowlands and groups will be begging us to heal. Initial stuff I read says lolz, no holy will still suck. who knows lots can change between PTR and launch.

Whats with this quote 1 month after? :P

No, you arent stuck, you are stuck at the endless loop of community perception.

Every class, every spec can complete up to +18s easy mode,they all have the tools the way the game is made at the moment, people are just shit at the game, we can start talking about things after +20s etc.

Holy is fine, Discipline is fine.

Holy doesnt require people to not fuck up 24/7, Discipline requires people to not fuck up 24/7, hence its harder.

There is no fix for community perception, other than try to find people at similar situation and progress together.

Which you wont, because every delusional plebeian in this game believes they are awesome for doing a +12 in 470 gear compared to their friends.

[Thzz]

Whats with this quote 1 month after? :P

well 3 weeks ago I had started running mythics for the 1st time ever. my post then was about that.

now Im running 10s-12s . it seem to me Holy shortcomings are starting to come up. so my post now is about that.

Which you wont, because every delusional plebeian in this game believes they are awesome for doing a +12 in 470 gear compared to their friends.

have no idea what point you are trying to make here.

[svetlio]

WHy you even bother doin m+ at this point??? They are wortless 2+ years old content and gear that drops from them is shitt in general cos in 99% dont have infinite starts or twinlight devistation rank 3

[ONCHEhap]

9/10 times the DPS are the ones to blame tbh

[potis]

well 3 weeks ago I had started running mythics for the 1st time ever. my post then was about that.

now Im running 10s-12s . it seem to me Holy shortcomings are starting to come up. so my post now is about that.




have no idea what point you are trying to make here.

There are no Holy shortcomings, there is no class that cant do everything up to +18 without even trying, it is that easy after some gear/group management i guess, and i guess easy/hard weeks come into play but in reality they dont matter, counters comes with experience.

The point i am trying to make is that your experience is basically around the fact that you are playing with bad players that make your life harder, which in turn you believe its a class problem.

It is not, as Discipline i can accept it, the difficulty scaling compared to Holy with bad players is astronomical but even then, its just that, low skilled groups.

Everything is a chain reaction, if bad DPS doesnt interrupt or dodge properly, in combination with tank that cant keep himself up for a long period, in combination with a healer that isnt sure what to do at each situation, aka experience, you get the results you are describing.

Now add community perception and voila, bad players galore, aka sewerage of M+.

[OFiveNine]

Secondly, try and keep in mind that tanking is by far, the hardest role in WoW. If it was easy, everyone would do it

lmao dpsing WELL is the hardest role in a wow good meme though

[hulkgor]

lmao dpsing WELL is the hardest role in a wow good meme though

lol

10 char.

[ClassicPeon]

lmao dpsing WELL is the hardest role in a wow good meme though

A few years ago i'd agree with you. Today? Come on man. Most dps'ers rotations are as simple as the tanks are.

I'm currently maining a havoc dh and a blood dk. Doing 15+ keys on both. I shit my pants every 2nd pack on my dk where as my dh can pull the numbers needed while sit with my kid on my lap and i'm half asleep

[munkeyinorbit]

It's really sad that this is the tank's job... Knowing which mobs need to die first is something one would think the DPS should know on their own.

Wrong. It has always been a tanks role to decide what dies first. Tanks are the defacto leader.

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A few years ago i'd agree with you. Today? Come on man. Most dps'ers rotations are as simple as the tanks are.

I'm currently maining a havoc dh and a blood dk. Doing 15+ keys on both. I shit my pants every 2nd pack on my dk where as my dh can pull the numbers needed while sit with my kid on my lap and i'm half asleep

You say they are as complex as each other but you shit your pants on the tank? That's a l2p issue. If you were correct about complexity then they should be as easy as each other and there should be an equal shit your pants ratio. There isn't so you're doing one of them wrong.

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Knowing which mobs to kill first / knowing when it's ok to AoE everything instead / knowing what NEEDS to be interrupted and what can be let through 100% IS the job of the Dps, not the Tank.

And anybody trying to tell you otherwise are shitters who should be ashamed of themselves and rethink their entire life.

Imagine being wrong and putting so much emphasis on the importance of a game. You should buy a mirror, buddy. Then you need to have a good look at yourself because your priorities are completely out of step with reality. When you realise what a mistake you have been making with your life ask yourself this. Who is the defacto leader of the group? This is why you are wrong.

[OFiveNine]

A few years ago i'd agree with you. Today? Come on man. Most dps'ers rotations are as simple as the tanks are.

I'm currently maining a havoc dh and a blood dk. Doing 15+ keys on both. I shit my pants every 2nd pack on my dk where as my dh can pull the numbers needed while sit with my kid on my lap and i'm half asleep

hmu with your orange parses

If we're talking about how braindead classes are, every role and every class is braindead. It's dealing with the extra mechanics while maintaining your role and honestly tanking is probably the easiest role in the game right now. Some 23-25 pulls are aids on a tank sure but i'd rather a lower skilled tank vs higher skill dps than the opposite