Resilience will fix it.

[BeepBoo]

No. You're playing a bonus feature of the game that was added in after the fact to extend play time. WoW is a PvE game that allows you to PvP.

Same could be said for people that just want to do world quests and have endless power increases. Wow's entire endgame has always been group-based content, with the pinnacle being raids. Overworld solo players are extras utilizing a bonus feature. Wow was always a raid sim.

Disagree? then you're a hypocrite with an arbitrary line in the sand and OP has a point. (Hint: op definitely has a point)

Add tier set bonuses back onto gear so I don't have to bother with m+, world quests, etc. All "bonus features" added to the game way late that I don't want anything to do with. I just want to raidlog and be a superstar if I have the skills to be.

[Stormspellz]

I feel like they should just bring back stat templates.



PvP to me should never be about gear outside of a <= 10% difference between good and average geared players. It should be almost entirely skill based.



A freshly maxed good player will get absolutely crushed by a meh player with good gear, which shouldn't happen imo.

the idea of templates was good, the execution of them was horrible, they shouldn't scale for rated pvp and honor talents should be how your stat customization, for example one row of talents is a chunk of mastery, haste, or crit; along with honor talents should only alter talents for pvp not give you completely new skills, if a skill is needed to make their pvp kit "complete" then it should be part of the base kit.

[Azerate]

No. Resilience would be the ultimate death of PvP because it basically shuts out everyone who wants to casually participate in it while acquiring gear from pve sources. I remember the times where you needed to farm separate gear for pvp and that was not a fun time. In an interconnected world, such as one in an mmorpg, you should be able to get good gear in another source and roflstomp people in pvp.

And duh, PvP in a mmorpg should be based on your stats. If you get good gear, dominating your opponents with it is half the fun. If you want stat templates just go play Call of Duty or something

Same could be said for people that just want to do world quests and have endless power increases. Wow's entire endgame has always been group-based content, with the pinnacle being raids. Overworld solo players are extras utilizing a bonus feature. Wow was always a raid sim.

World quests are just a lower level of PvE content and a transformation of the old school open world gameplay.

[Wheeler]

Nah, game is infinitely better without resilience. Many of the issues with PvP right now are almost all tied to rental powers, anyways.

Stopping rental powers like Corruption and Azerite Traits are a net positive for everyone (Even non-PVP players).

[Amarys]

No! PvP needs to be fast. You lose nothing on death so 1-10 sec kills please. Currently you can't even play as a sniper or a real assassin as in sneak up and backstab someone. Besides resilience is a flawed design. It reduces damage but it doesn't reduce healing so as time goes on, classes with self heals and healers get more and more powerful while pure damage classes get weaker.

[wraysbury]

Resilience has a bunch of downsides, but it's not the only way to separate pve and pvp gear. The thing they did in WoD where the ilevel of pvp gear was bumped in pvp fights and BGs was pretty great.

No. Resilience would be the ultimate death of PvP because it basically shuts out everyone who wants to casually participate in it while acquiring gear from pve sources. I remember the times where you needed to farm separate gear for pvp and that was not a fun time.

Getting a full set of honor pvp gear never took more than three evenings of solo queuing BGs regardless of expansion pack (except legion and bfa obviously) and season. If that's not casual I don't know what is.

Also a hearthy lol at the idea that it would mean "the death of pvp" when it worked like this for nine consecutive years.

[Enclave]

Entire game was made on war between horde and alliance

PvE was just a bonus feature to get gear so you can use it to get stronger for PvP

[Greengrim]

No. You're playing a bonus feature of the game that was added in after the fact to extend play time. WoW is a PvE game that allows you to PvP.

And you're a complete knucklehead. WoW that was, seized to exist many years ago. The current itteration actually includes a somewhat balanced PvP system (I mainly refer to arena). And I fully agree with OP - there must be PvP gear for PvP.

[Recovery]

*Opens up interface on character who did one Conquest reward.* Oh look, there's a 445 as my next reward. *Opens up cache* Nice, a 460. Hmmm... not sure what this guy is talking about.

Well, I healed RBGs for a day or so for my friends and got to 450. Not sure what to tell you. That's the fastest I geared someone while doing the least amount of content.

"Gear actually didn't matter in TBC:
• Your gear wasn't why you sucked
• For example, I'll outline a situation where gear is exactly why someone would suck"
I PvPd quite successfully in TBC thank you very much. When I'd want to switch to a different class, it was absolutely mandatory that I farm res gear first. I know it goes hand in hand with your talking down to me narrative, but I'm making the case based not just on my personal experience, but on the words of the developers and the state of the game from the resilience era as a whole.

Also, you seem to think I'm making the case that gear shouldn't matter. I'm not. I'm saying that there shouldn't be an arbitrary divide between two pieces of the game that reset the treadmill based on what part of it you play. Resilience is 100% that. Good gear should be good gear everywhere, and bad gear should be bad gear everywhere. Let loot be loot as they say.

Again, we're changing the purpose of what I said to fit your narrative. I'll say this... that sounds like a pretty cool RPG game where the people willing to put in the most effort have the strongest results. This has been the case for basically the life of the entire game that some weird weapons and trinkets would smash in PvP. That's pretty cool. They should make some wacky PvP items and powers that are kinda good for PvE too... Oh wait! They already do that. That may inspire me to do an activity I normally wouldn't do, but I certainly wouldn't consider myself "forced" to do it.

Everything you say literally just points in the direction that you have no actual idea what youre talking about.. Especially when you try to talk about the game in the past..

Season 3 BC - i achieved gladiator in 2s playing disc priest in full greens. FULL GREENS.
I again achieved gladiator in season 5 WOTLK 3s playing disc priest which was awful due to death knights... in greens and welfare epics.
YET AGAIN in season 10 of cata, i achieved 2400 in 2s playing DISC priest / RET pal and we WERE BOTH fresh 85s with leveling greens.

I can provide clips that were recorded during all of the times for proof if you think you need it. The point is, if you think you needed full BIS pvp gear with resilience in the past to be competitive, youre flat WRONG.

Today in BFA, of you step into a 2s game with anything less that 460ilvl (which still isnt really competitive) you will literally be 1 shot by 10 pve item effects all coming at you like a kamehameha thats meant to destroy the planet. Current gear literally takes skill away from pvp.

"Oh man, i just mopped the floor with this guy after my raden weapon proc, gushing wounds proc, tantacle proc, and remote guidance device crit and all i did was press my keybind for the trinket and auto attack" - that takes alot of skill bro.

I dont agree with "let loot be loot" when youre speaking about a competitive aspect of the game. Arena is strictly competitive. There is no other point and should be no other point. There is no world where you should feel good about winning a competitive match because you got an RNG Proc crit from a static effect.

I mean, youre also contradicting yourself. Youre talking about spending time in the game to be successful.. I spent time farming the pvp gear that you condemn because you DIDNT spend the time farming it and then stepped into my world expecting to be successful, but got styled on.

Why is it so hard for you to just farm both sets? Put in the time (effort) that you like talking about.. if you want to play in both areas.. Let those of us who do not want to spend 15 hours a day farming gear have a separate set that is intended to be effective in the area of the game that we enjoy playing..

People like you seem to think the letter RPG entail some kind of specific way that you HAVE to play a game labeled as such. Wow is far from an RPG and always has been.. WHy should you be able to tell me how i should play the game? WHy should you tell me what the most effective way to play is?

- - - Updated - - -

No! PvP needs to be fast. You lose nothing on death so 1-10 sec kills please. Currently you can't even play as a sniper or a real assassin as in sneak up and backstab someone. Besides resilience is a flawed design. It reduces damage but it doesn't reduce healing so as time goes on, classes with self heals and healers get more and more powerful while pure damage classes get weaker.

Hey bruh.. Dampening has been in the game for ages now... You dont need resilience to effect healing. As a matter of fact.. I could make that argument that arena is unbalanced due to a mechanic that reduces healing but no mechanic to reduce damage to compensate.

But let me take a wild guess and assume that youre strictly talking about casual pvp aka BGS which dont include a dampen mechanic............

- - - Updated - - -

No. Resilience would be the ultimate death of PvP because it basically shuts out everyone who wants to casually participate in it while acquiring gear from pve sources. I remember the times where you needed to farm separate gear for pvp and that was not a fun time. In an interconnected world, such as one in an mmorpg, you should be able to get good gear in another source and roflstomp people in pvp.

And duh, PvP in a mmorpg should be based on your stats. If you get good gear, dominating your opponents with it is half the fun. If you want stat templates just go play Call of Duty or something



World quests are just a lower level of PvE content and a transformation of the old school open world gameplay.

Resilience wouldnt be the death of COMPETITIVE pvp. Competitive PVP isnt going to die because 5 people who Q bgs for 2 hours in the evening stop qing bgs.. lol

[Amarys]

Hey bruh.. Dampening has been in the game for ages now... You dont need resilience to effect healing. As a matter of fact.. I could make that argument that arena is unbalanced due to a mechanic that reduces healing but no mechanic to reduce damage to compensate.

But let me take a wild guess and assume that youre strictly talking about casual pvp aka BGS which dont include a dampen mechanic............

Yep.. casual BGs and world PvP. I only have a problem with resilience and "PvP balancing" cause they usually affect those in negative ways. Besides who does arenas anyway? Maybe up to 10% of players? If even that. They could have separate balancing and servers for them and just give them the gear.

[Azerate]

Resilience wouldnt be the death of COMPETITIVE pvp. Competitive PVP isnt going to die because 5 people who Q bgs for 2 hours in the evening stop qing bgs.. lol

You got it the wrong way man. Barely anyone cares about competitive pvp in wow. It's those casuals that "Q bgs for 2 hours in the evening" is what matters, and that's the pvp environment an average player experiences. I can assure that if that dies, your arena tournaments that are usually watched by like 2000 people worldwide will disappear too.

[Austilias]

No. Resilience would be the ultimate death of PvP because it basically shuts out everyone who wants to casually participate in it while acquiring gear from pve sources. I remember the times where you needed to farm separate gear for pvp and that was not a fun time. In an interconnected world, such as one in an mmorpg, you should be able to get good gear in another source and roflstomp people in pvp.

Your memory fails you. When resilience was a thing, PvP went as follows:

1) Enter BG/Arena/etc in your PvE gear. You're not totally useless, but you often (rightly) get stomped by people in actual PvP gear.
2) Gradually acquire PvP gear from your time in BGs/Arenas.
3) Congrats, you're now geared for PvP and your PvP gear isn't totally useless in PvE either (but still obviously/rightly inferior to actual PvE gear).#

It was a good system.

[Recovery]

Yep.. casual BGs and world PvP. I only have a problem with resilience and "PvP balancing" cause they usually affect those in negative ways. Besides who does arenas anyway? Maybe up to 10% of players? If even that. They could have separate balancing and servers for them and just give them the gear.

Believe me, we have begged for this for 15 years. lol. Blizzard doesnt want to split the player base because sole pve players wouldnt be able to fill the groups of people who do both, but would quit pve for good to focus on competitive pvp.

[wraysbury]

You got it the wrong way man. Barely anyone cares about competitive pvp in wow. It's those casuals that "Q bgs for 2 hours in the evening" is what matters, and that's the pvp environment an average player experiences. I can assure that if that dies, your arena tournaments that are usually watched by like 2000 people worldwide will disappear too.

Again, the casual "Q bgs for 2 hours in the evening" pvp didn't die during the nine years that encompassed TBC through WoD, where pvp specific gear existed.

We are not discussing an hypothetical solution to pvp gearing here but one that was in the game for a long time and didn't bring about the doomsday scenario for pvp that you claim it would.

In fact, it was better for casual BG players because they could pretty quickly get ok pvp gear this way.

[Cyanu]

Can we please put resilience back on gear so that im not forced to do pve if i dont want to. I dont care for mythic+. I dont care for raiding. I just want to pvp and i dont want to be at a disadvantage in my preferred area of the game just because i dont want to participate in the part of the game that i detest.

GRRRR

are you THE Recovery? absolutely sir, anything for you and we're terribly sorry if you have ever felt compelled to PvE

you can expect the fix by next reset

[Segus1992]

GRRRR

Never was a fan of a secondary stat that was almost only exclusive (or just exclusively used/particularly good) to one aspect of the game and not the game as a whole.

OP just find out what secondary stats are good for your spec and also start stacking up that Versatility, lol. Probably won't help as much but /shrug

They should make Versatility's damage reduction be double in PvP, and smack a whole lot more of it on PvP gear, and nerfing it slightly so that it isn't the strongest stat for anyone in PvE (so that PvP gear isn't BiS for PvE).

Boom, fixed.

Alternatively make this the 2p bonus for the PvP sets if they're ever introduced again, that way nobody who does PvP will be unclear about it either.

[Stormdash]

No. You're playing a bonus feature of the game that was added in after the fact to extend play time. WoW is a PvE game that allows you to PvP.

Thank you!

PVP is an albatross around the neck of MMORPGs.

[wraysbury]

Thank you!

PVP is an albatross around the neck of MMORPGs.

Thanks for your contribution to the PvP forum. Don't you have some log parses to jerk off about somewhere?

[Recovery]

are you THE Recovery? absolutely sir, anything for you and we're terribly sorry if you have ever felt compelled to PvE

you can expect the fix by next reset

You act as though im the only one that wants this. lol.

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you!

PVP is an albatross around the neck of MMORPGs.

Noone FORCES you to PVP. I wish we could say the same about pve. =/

Whatever example you CAN give me of being forced to pvp is very small in comparison. You needed conflict? You never had to q another pvp game after you got it. You wanted blood of the enemy? Same thing, once you got it, you were done. Need On use pvp trinket (only required for fire mage if im not mistaken) well you were done once you got it.

Pvpers have been forced to pve for this entire expansion.. for every item.

You can make the argument that we werent "forced", but its simply not true. Were forced by competition and the unbalancing of gear inside instanced competitive pvp. Its like saying youre not forced to grind Mythic+ for your set of 470+ gear to go kill mythic nzoth.

You are not the dictator of how i play the game and enjoy it. Neither i for you. I dont want you to have to pvp to pve. I dont want myself to have to pve to pvp.

[Stormdash]

Noone FORCES you to PVP. I wish we could say the same about pve. =/

*laughs in essences and MOP legendary*