Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Remilia]

It sounds odd because it's odd to give so much credit to a study which IIRC had a sampling pool of 24 patients (lol), against older but wider observations - which is also the reason why the CDC, WHO, ECDC all agree that, and I quote from the ECDC FAQs, "Allergies, including mild allergic asthma, have not been identified as a major risk factor for SARS-CoV-2 infection or for a more unfavourable outcome in the studies available so far. Moderate to severe asthma on the other hand, where patients need treatment daily, is included in the chronic lung conditions that predispose to severe disease."

Likewise, as to the absurdity according to which people with already ravaged lungs (read: smokers) might be protected just because nicotine is a cholinergic agonist and might play some role in preventing the cytokine storm from happening,

"It is obviously inappropriate to suggest that anyone should initiate smoking or to continue to smoke due to the well-established smoking-related morbidities and the large number of potentially toxic chemicals in cigarette smoke. Furthermore, it is unlikely that any other compound in tobacco cigarette smoke, besides nicotine, would be implicated to the potential benefits observed in smokers. Moreover, due to the adverse effects of smoking and the fact that many smokers would suffer from co-morbidities (such as cardiovascular disease, COPD etc.), it is expected that the potential benefits of nicotine would be blunted when observed in smokers." [source]

By the way you could just look at what I linked which has nothing to do with what you're talking about. Two article/preprint are looking at the causation and one is looking at the correlation (using NY and China's data). One of them is a very simple preliminary look. The other involves 330 participants, 79 control to look at ACE2 expression. The other for correlation looks at the low amount of people with asthma cases for mortality, not even making a mark for top 10 in NY's case. If asthma is a risk factor then there should be more people with asthma comorbidity in the mortality numbers. You could just you know, read the article/preprints. Instead of assume I use some study that I have no idea wtf you're talking about.

And someone else already linked a new study for smoking.

New study out today seems to negate the preliminary nicotine investigation.

Smoking Nearly Doubles the Rate of COVID-19 Progression

[Coolthulhu]

By the way you could just look at what I linked which has nothing to do with what you're talking about. Two article/preprint are looking at the causation and one is looking at the correlation (using NY and China's data). One of them is a very simple preliminary look. The other involves 330 participants, 79 control to look at ACE2 expression. The other for correlation looks at the low amount of people with asthma cases for mortality, not even making a mark for top 10 in NY's case. If asthma is a risk factor then there should be more people with asthma comorbidity in the mortality numbers. You could just you know, read the article/preprints. Instead of assume I use some study that I have no idea wtf you're talking about.

And someone else already linked a new study for smoking.

So what are you trying to say here, that you know more than the WHO, CDC and ECDC put together, that my adding additional studies and data about SARS-CoV-2 in a thread about SARS-CoV-2 was inappropriate , or are you simply irritated by the fact that what you said is simply wrong and misleading, thus potentially dangerous for readers?

[Remilia]

So what are you trying to say here, that you know more than the WHO, CDC and ECDC put together, that my adding additional studies and data about SARS-CoV-2 in a thread about SARS-CoV-2 was inappropriate , or are you simply irritated by the fact that what you said is simply wrong and misleading, thus potentially dangerous for readers?

Umm... wat? I'm linking studies and data. If you've got some studies, preprints, what not, then do go ahead and link them. The only thing you've listed is a 2 month old data of admission and comorbidity. Not anything to do with mortality.
Fun fact, all of the organization you listed has been wrong one time or another during this entire thing. Why? Cause we keep learning more and more about this. ECDC's FAQ still holds that masks make infections worse for example.

We've been operating on what we should be expecting from a respiratory disease for a while but a lot has not been adding up to be like that. "Happy hypoxia" isn't something you typically see for example.

[Corvus]

For those advocating that the elderly (basically anyone over about 50) take one for the team and just die so y'all can go back to enjoying your nail polishes and lattes, why don't we just take that to its logical conclusion, take all the elderly out the back and put a bullet in their heads. It'd be cheaper, faster and less painful for all involved, rather than dying lingering deaths and clogging up the hospital systems. Or we could just reopen the gas chambers.

Because, seriously, that is pretty much what you are asking for. The complete lack of anything approaching empathy is staggering.

[Felya]

For those advocating that the elderly (basically anyone over about 50) take one for the team and just die so y'all can go back to enjoying your nail polishes and lattes, why don't we just take that to its logical conclusion, take all the elderly out the back and put a bullet in their heads. It'd be cheaper, faster and less painful for all involved, rather than dying lingering deaths and clogging up the hospital systems. Or we could just reopen the gas chambers.

Because, seriously, that is pretty much what you are asking for. The complete lack of anything approaching empathy is staggering.

Harsh... I’d say you must name at least one family member you are willing to let die, when one claims that it’s worth it. Like that dumb ass kid on Facebook that had his aunt reply asking if she should say bye now.

[breadisfunny]

For those advocating that the elderly (basically anyone over about 50) take one for the team and just die so y'all can go back to enjoying your nail polishes and lattes, why don't we just take that to its logical conclusion, take all the elderly out the back and put a bullet in their heads. It'd be cheaper, faster and less painful for all involved, rather than dying lingering deaths and clogging up the hospital systems. Or we could just reopen the gas chambers.

Because, seriously, that is pretty much what you are asking for. The complete lack of anything approaching empathy is staggering.

it's pretty much an argument for nazi style eugenics.

[Stelio Kontos]

it's pretty much an argument for nazi style eugenics.

It is, but they'll use all sorts of pedantry and sophistry to try to dodge being labeled as such.

[shadowmouse]

We've been operating on what we should be expecting from a respiratory disease for a while but a lot has not been adding up to be like that. "Happy hypoxia" isn't something you typically see for example.

That's one I'll agree with you on. This started out billed as the latest version of SARS -- not literally, it is a different virus, but it was expected to be similar and approached with the same toolkit. Perhaps it is because of the heightened scrutiny COVID-19 is getting, but as the story has emerged it has taken a whole lot of twists and looks set to continue to do so.

[Puupi]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN22P2RP

Spanish study points to 5% of population being affected by coronavirus.

Not good news for those advocating for herd immunity, at all.

[Yunru]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN22P2RP

Spanish study points to 5% of population being affected by coronavirus.

Not good news for those advocating for herd immunity, at all.

Doesnt say how many in numbers tho. Spain does have 46,94 milion people. In worse case scenario of 2,35 milion of infected 0.235 milion will die.
This is if it stays on 5% (for a whole population of country -- but we dont know real numbers).

235.000 (47 milion pop) dead vs 103 (2 milion pop) dead in my country to get the idea.

[PrimiOne]

Doesnt say how many in numbers tho. Spain does have 46,94 milion people. In worse case scenario of 2,35 milion of infected 0.235 milion will die.
This is if it stays on 5% (for a whole population of country -- but we dont know real numbers).

235.000 (47 milion pop) dead vs 103 (2 milion pop) dead in my country to get the idea.

More detailed ( use google translate or ask me):

https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020-05-...evalencia.html

It's correct the number you gave 2.35 millions.

These are just preliminary results: 25% of the 70.000 random tests scheduled for the study.

97.3 % test reliability
33.7% asymptomatics ( don't remember having any symptons)
1.1% mortality so far.

[Skulltaker]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN22P2RP

Spanish study points to 5% of population being affected by coronavirus.

Not good news for those advocating for herd immunity, at all.

That was a pretty bad idea to begin with. For herd immunity to become a thing you first have to make sure that you can actually achieve immunity.

[shadowmouse]

An anecdotal report: I think I'm the last of the posters in this thread still in mainland China.

Today was the weekly shopping trip. I went outside and the first thing I noticed was that the foot gate for people entering the complex was not closed the way it usually has been.

The next big change hit me when I entered the shopping mall. I went in, flipped up my cuff, and extended my wrist as usual. I got a wave off, and the security guy appeared to point me outside. We went back and forth until I happened to look at the right part of the security screening gate -- it wasn't the usual check for shoplifting kind of thing, it was a similarly styled gate for temperature checks. I'm betting that it wasn't cheap compared to putting a guy outside with one of the handheld devices. It looks like even a small mall is putting the money into a long term screening process, I take that as a sign that business may start returning to normal but their prepared for a long haul on checking.

Once I got inside, I saw that two restaurants are at least open for walk in business. I'm guessing that they allow at least limited sit down dining because the Northwestern hotpot place had been selling snacks from their doorway and no longer had that set up.

Going back to my apartment, they did check my temperature, but I think it was mainly to humor me since I had offered my wrist. I was waved right through. It was very much the kind of bored "I'm busy drinking my tea" security that was normal for our complex before the virus.

My general impression? Things will relax, but it looks like normal is still a ways off.

Some may recall that I had expected the US to fare better than it has, and the one I expected to be a goat rope was India. I'm very skeptical about India and their lathi, but credit where credit is due: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/12/a...hnk/index.html

Stay safe, y'all! Good luck!

[Omega10]

An anecdotal report: I think I'm the last of the posters in this thread still in mainland China.

Today was the weekly shopping trip. I went outside and the first thing I noticed was that the foot gate for people entering the complex was not closed the way it usually has been.

The next big change hit me when I entered the shopping mall. I went in, flipped up my cuff, and extended my wrist as usual. I got a wave off, and the security guy appeared to point me outside. We went back and forth until I happened to look at the right part of the security screening gate -- it wasn't the usual check for shoplifting kind of thing, it was a similarly styled gate for temperature checks. I'm betting that it wasn't cheap compared to putting a guy outside with one of the handheld devices. It looks like even a small mall is putting the money into a long term screening process, I take that as a sign that business may start returning to normal but their prepared for a long haul on checking.

Once I got inside, I saw that two restaurants are at least open for walk in business. I'm guessing that they allow at least limited sit down dining because the Northwestern hotpot place had been selling snacks from their doorway and no longer had that set up.

Going back to my apartment, they did check my temperature, but I think it was mainly to humor me since I had offered my wrist. I was waved right through. It was very much the kind of bored "I'm busy drinking my tea" security that was normal for our complex before the virus.

My general impression? Things will relax, but it looks like normal is still a ways off.

Some may recall that I had expected the US to fare better than it has, and the one I expected to be a goat rope was India. I'm very skeptical about India and their lathi, but credit where credit is due: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/12/a...hnk/index.html

Stay safe, y'all! Good luck!

Thanks for the update. It is what we'll have in the US ... one day. The old normal is out, the new normal is in. I suppose this is what progress looks like sometimes???

Oh, and bored security won't be so bored the third time an outbreak of the virus pops up and it is related back to people who were at mall X on day Y. Giving your customers a half a month of intense sickness is not a good selling point.

[Pann]

Some potential good news https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52656808

[shadowmouse]

Oh, and bored security won't be so bored the third time an outbreak of the virus pops up and it is related back to people who were at mall X on day Y.

Nah, it's a good sign. The bored security were the guys on the apartment complex gate. Apartment complexes in Beijing are gated and staffed with something on the order of US mall cops. As long as they are bored, chatting, and drinking their tea, it means things are routine. When they're alert, it means something is going on and tensions are elevated. When the lockdown was in high gear, we had to show a chit to verify that we were part of the community, there were actual police and med techs on hand, and we'd get tossed questions about where we had been and what we had been out for. Sometimes that even happened as we were going out.

The mall had one door open, that had a real mall cop manning it, and the security gate gave an audible signal as we passed through it. The only things open were the small supermarket, the bakery, and now the two restaurants. Staff aside, I doubt there were more than about 20 people in the whole mall. People here have gone through SARS, H1N1 and the rest. For the most part, they go out, do their thing and go home. Masks are pretty routine, even during ordinary flu seasons or allergy seasons.

[Orange Joe]

It's 21st century, there are prompt violence/terrorist attacks reports, there should also be reports of COVID causing problems.
Yet there are none.

So... That data you wanted a few days ago. You never replied after giving it to you. How come?

[Trunksee]

For those advocating that the elderly (basically anyone over about 50) take one for the team and just die so y'all can go back to enjoying your nail polishes and lattes, why don't we just take that to its logical conclusion, take all the elderly out the back and put a bullet in their heads. It'd be cheaper, faster and less painful for all involved, rather than dying lingering deaths and clogging up the hospital systems. Or we could just reopen the gas chambers.

Because, seriously, that is pretty much what you are asking for. The complete lack of anything approaching empathy is staggering.

Not true. And so obtuse. We are advocating they take 1 for the team and stay home. Order delivery dont go out. Stay away from family for a while so we can put the economy on our backs and return to work. Facts are facts. This is no more deadly than the flu to people under 60. It doesnt fit the narrative for them to say it. They dont want to see others able to live their lives so we are allowing the elderly in government to dictate if its not safe for them to do it noone can.

[Omega10]

Nah, it's a good sign. The bored security were the guys on the apartment complex gate. Apartment complexes in Beijing are gated and staffed with something on the order of US mall cops. As long as they are bored, chatting, and drinking their tea, it means things are routine. When they're alert, it means something is going on and tensions are elevated. When the lockdown was in high gear, we had to show a chit to verify that we were part of the community, there were actual police and med techs on hand, and we'd get tossed questions about where we had been and what we had been out for. Sometimes that even happened as we were going out.

The mall had one door open, that had a real mall cop manning it, and the security gate gave an audible signal as we passed through it. The only things open were the small supermarket, the bakery, and now the two restaurants. Staff aside, I doubt there were more than about 20 people in the whole mall. People here have gone through SARS, H1N1 and the rest. For the most part, they go out, do their thing and go home. Masks are pretty routine, even during ordinary flu seasons or allergy seasons.

Oh I misunderstood. And I'm glad I did, thank you for your clarification. Masks are not routine here, but I suspect over time this will change.

[shadowmouse]

Oh I misunderstood. And I'm glad I did, thank you for your clarification. Masks are not routine here, but I suspect over time this will change.

De nada. Really, I'd like to see the habit of wearing a surgical mask if you don't feel well get more accepted. If COVID-19 were to just magically disappear tomorrow, I would rather people still not cough their <whatever> on everyone else.