9.0 General Discussion

[tristannarutofan]

Zandalari are one of the few good Allied Races, but stuff like Lightforged Draenei, Highmountain Tauren and Dark Iron Dwarves are blatantly race customizations played off as new races in order to get money from race changes. If they waited until Shadowlands they would have simply been customization, proven by the fact Wildhammers and different troll variants are playable in the default races despite not originating from their respective starting zones (mostly thanks to Exiles Reach, which could be seen as a blessing and a curse for allied races/customizations).

You are going to hurt yourself bending over backwards like that.

Your premise hinges on multiple things that prove your edgelord theory wrong
-its a business, and providing more products for your customers isnt a scam. Its what a business is for.
-there is zero incentive to race change. And multiple incentives to level them manually. Not only does ot create more of an identity for your character, but u get exclusive transmog for that race
-the new options prove u wrong. So many ppl are talking about making new characters...or race changing specific ones...because of new customization. So even if some options were just new customization, people would still be rerolling.
-boosts are expensive to get ppl to do it rarely, and each year they have sales for race changes
- it would be awkward to add some customization to a few races and thrn have other allied races ne seperate races. This is a nice clean system that allows them to add a dozen offshoot races rather than just 1 or 2.
- allied..races arent the same? U have different racials and options. Voice work and even for some dances and forms. I value my kt punch alot more than Emfhs
-just adding options to the base races is a terrible idea. Bronzebeards cant have flaming beards, humans can't be druids and if they could their forms wouldnt be drust. Darkspear trolls wouldnt have zandalari tattoos. Allowing races to mix and match options they couldnt have completely screws any semblance of lore

[Atticon]

Ehhh not sure what to think about these soft timers. I prefer slow, steady and methodical and don't like being rushed, I hated Visions for that reason. Time should be an option as a price to pay rather than risk.
Maybe make these an optional hard mode for greater rewards?

[FlubberPuddy]

Thanks, bud. I’ll raise a glass to you

Good stuff!

[therumblings]

You are going to hurt yourself bending over backwards like that.

Your premise hinges on multiple things that prove your edgelord theory wrong

Not worshiping blizzard is edgy now?

-its a business, and providing more products for your customers isnt a scam. Its what a business is for.

This argument is fruitless. Their goal is to make money, that doesn't give them the freedom to make a bad system. A system that gives them more race change money, and less character customization. Just look at Nightborne and compare there 3 skin colors to the new customization.

- allied..races arent the same? U have different racials and options. Voice work and even for some dances and forms. I value my kt punch alot more than Emfhs
-just adding options to the base races is a terrible idea. Bronzebeards cant have flaming beards, humans can't be druids and if they could their forms wouldnt be drust. Darkspear trolls wouldnt have zandalari tattoos.

Dark Irons, Lightforged, Mag'har and Highmountain literally have no differences to their base race no more than the new customization options have additional clans and tattoos. Making these customizations into an entirely new race is blatantly a cash grab. Please refrain from calling me "edgy" for not supporting this tactic of adding "new" races, then in the next expansion, adding what the allied races should have been from the start, after they already race changed.

Allowing races to mix and match options they couldnt have completely screws any semblance of lore

Explain why you can be a Wildhammer Dwarf on a Bronzebeard Dwarf then? It makes total sense for a Draenei to become Lightforged, Gnome to Mechagnome, Tauren with the blessing of Cenarius, unlocking the customization.

I don't understand Blizzard Apologists when Blizzard does things that blatantly are negative and counterproductive. Why would you want allied races when you could have had actual meaningful races like Zandalari, in every allied race slot, and add Lightforged and co to increased customization.

[FlubberPuddy]

Ehhh not sure what to think about these soft timers. I prefer slow, steady and methodical and don't like being rushed, I hated Visions for that reason. Time should be an option as a price to pay rather than risk.
Maybe make these an optional hard mode for greater rewards?

I'm not excited for the soft timers either because Torghast was meant to feel untimed. Wonder if they should maybe include a 'after 15 mins spent on a floor this occurs' instead of it happening every 30 secs to a minute once you leave the safe zone area.

[Hitei]

I'm not excited for the soft timers either because Torghast was meant to feel untimed. Wonder if they should maybe include a 'after 15 mins spent on a floor this occurs' instead of it happening every 30 secs to a minute once you leave the safe zone area.

That would be even worse. Because then you have an actual timer instead of just a steadily ramping difficulty.

[TheLucky1]

charged up - covenant - mirror images - rune of power - ap - totm.

I just found out that this is the burst sequence of arcane mages.
6 gcd's in a row that deal no direct damage.

Just... the memes...

[TriHard]

"The XQC"

That's a jew nose right there

[Plehnard]

charged up - covenant - mirror images - rune of power - ap - totm.

I just found out that this is the burst sequence of arcane mages.
6 gcd's in a row that deal no direct damage.

Just... the memes...

So arcane mages are Dragonball characters now?

[FlubberPuddy]

That would be even worse. Because then you have an actual timer instead of just a steadily ramping difficulty.

Maybe, but who would spend 15 mins one one floor? Either super gaming it or it's clearly too hard to progress imo, I just threw out a random time as an example but it should be whatever time that 99% of people wouldn't need to get through a floor basically.

Although admittedly I haven't seen it in action so I'm going to see how it plays out in the alpha before declaring it's not good.

But there's a difference between ramping difficulty and ramping difficulty with soft timers. "Timers" of any kind should not exist in Torghast imo. I just don't like the principle of it atm.

- - - Updated - - -

charged up - covenant - mirror images - rune of power - ap - totm.

I just found out that this is the burst sequence of arcane mages.
6 gcd's in a row that deal no direct damage.

Just... the memes...

Honestly I like that Morgan suggested maybe mirror images should be used as a defensive cooldown only and not a dps cooldown, since traditionally that's what 'mirror images' in RPGs are used for, and I think Morgan was referencing that niche for it.

Also some of the changes like Blade Flurry doing AoE at the beginning are better. I think that's where cds need to head toward. Having a bunch of "passive power up buttons" doesn't feel good if they're being locked by a gcd.

- - - Updated - - -

"The XQC"

Any BIG JUICERS?

But honestly that Goblin looks pretty badass.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Maybe, but who would spend 15 mins one one floor? Either super gaming it or it's clearly too hard to progress imo, I just threw out a random time as an example but it should be whatever time that 99% of people wouldn't need to get through a floor basically.

Although admittedly I haven't seen it in action so I'm going to see how it plays out in the alpha before declaring it's not good.

But there's a difference between ramping difficulty and ramping difficulty with soft timers. "Timers" of any kind should not exist in Torghast imo. I just don't like the principle of it atm.

Spending 15 minutes on a floor was until yesterday part of the most strategic, tense and interesting gameplay I have seen in WoW in a decade. While this was obviously in a non-applicable "getting things rolling" phase for the final intent, it also encourages hunting of certain mobs in a flooor, like taking out sentinels before going for the harder elites and such tactics. It would have perfectly fit at the end of the scaling curve before you inadvertedly get fucked by the death counter. Not to mention these soft caps aren't really that soft at all, they are pretty hard cut off points.

[TheLucky1]

So arcane mages are Dragonball characters now?

Yes.
And with the new customization options i know exactly what i have to do for the memes.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly I like that Morgan suggested maybe mirror images should be used as a defensive cooldown only and not a dps cooldown, since traditionally that's what 'mirror images' in RPGs are used for, and I think Morgan was referencing that niche for it.

Also some of the changes like Blade Flurry doing AoE at the beginning are better. I think that's where cds need to head toward. Having a bunch of "passive power up buttons" doesn't feel good if they're being locked by a gcd.

The thing is that mirror images aren't a problem for fire/frost (at least not as much).
However mirror images could literally be a passive bound to your major cooldowns and nothing would change(you press icy veins/AP/combust and you get mirror images for a few seconds because why not), as mirror images are a constant low dps cooldown they also just could be off the gcd and it wouldn't matter.

[Lahis]

"There will be no timer in Torghast."

*Implements a timer in Torghast*

[Lidenbok]

"There will be no timer in Torghast."

*Implements a timer in Torghast*

You must be new to Alpha testing.

[Zorish]

"There will be no timer in Torghast."

*Implements a timer in Torghast*

it's not direct timer. it's way to make people not wait untill all cooldowns avaliable before each pack. Blizzard said about it, they done about it. Nobody limiting you in time how much you want spend in torghast, you can even afk between floors in resting zone for how much you want.

[Lahis]

it's not direct timer. it's way to make people not wait untill all cooldowns avaliable before each pack. Blizzard said about it, they done about it. Nobody limiting you in time how much you want spend in torghast, you can even afk between floors in resting zone for how much you want.

Sure it doesn't tick down like in M+ but instead makes your debuff tick up.

End result is the same: to limit your time in the dungeon.

[Divada]

When Blizz said there'd be no timer in Torghast I knew it sounded too good to be true. If you're not in an allocated rest zone you will have to rush to clear the floor. That's sad. Ah well, still early days. See how it goes.

[Zorish]

Sure it doesn't tick down like in M+ but instead makes your debuff tick up.

End result is the same: to limit your time in the dungeon.

it limit your time on FLOOR, not DUNGEON.

[huth]

it's not direct timer. it's way to make people not wait untill all cooldowns avaliable before each pack. Blizzard said about it, they done about it. Nobody limiting you in time how much you want spend in torghast, you can even afk between floors in resting zone for how much you want.

It's still a timer, and i don't think punishing people for being slow is the right way to go about it. They should either encourage speed, or limit benefits from stalling.

it limit your time on FLOOR, not DUNGEON.

Same thing. The Dungeon is composed of floors, so limiting time on a floor limits time in the Dungeon.

U have to put a limit somewhere

There's an inherent limit in the floors getting progressively harder.

[Zorish]

Same thing. The Dungeon is composed of floors, so limiting time on a floor limits time in the Dungeon.

well yes, but actually not. You can't rest between bosses in myth+, but you can rest between floors in torghast.