Ion & Co. at it again

[Thirtyrock]

Out of curiosity, what are you hoping for them to do with Arthas? Turn him into a dungeon boss? Make him a raid encounter? Give him a redemption arc? Make him a soulbind? Turn him into a legendary follower for the new mission table? Honestly I feel like Arthas' story had a satisfying conclusion at the end of TFT, and he became a far less interesting character in WotLK where he just randomly showed up as a figurehead for the Scourge, maybe empowered some minion, and then walked away. I recognize your experience may be different from mine and am curious what you're hoping to see.

I agree with this completely.

I don't WANT to see a full redemption arc, I think we got enough hints of that when he died. I certainly don't want to see him as a villain again, we had enough of that across WCIII and WotLK.

The only truly satisfying arc for him, a story line that doesn't invalidate either his evil deeds OR the regret that seems to have been there, in my mind, is the tortured soul regretting its living decisions. That's the only thing I could really accept but that probably doesn't make a very compelling in game story line. What would we do with him? Make him feel better, worse? He's not a villain anymore, but a broken soul.

[DotEleven]

Youre completely wrong.. Resilience was NEVER preferred on ANY class for PVE. Resilience literally did ONE thing.. Reduced damage taken from players.. Actually, if i remember correctly, is SPECIFICALLY reduced the amount of damage that CRITS did.

It was never worthless for any class in pvp.

Why even comment on this if everything in your comment is incorrect? like.. ill never understand that.

Did a bit of looking.

So originally Resilience "reduced the damage taken from critical strikes and spell critical strikes, reduced the chance of suffering a critical strike, and reduced the effect of mana drain spells. Each point of resilience would give a player about 1% less chance to be critically struck. " In Cataclysm Resilience was changed to taking reduced damage from players and their pets/minions. In MoP it was changed to PvP Resilience which was basically the same thing. Then finally removed in WoD.

[Zantera]

I get this, I do, the solution is to provide tier pieces for every slot (including rings/trinkets), but still only use 4 towards the set. Tier items will be more available overall, but you can work towards itemization in more slots.

Personally I think it would be neat with a tier set that had 8 pieces with at most a 4 set bonus where you could add boots/bracers and waist to the normal 5. I think that would be neat and would at least give more options. Legion gearing was a lot worse than BFA gearing because you had 2 bis legos locked in, you had 4 set bonus and it was overall quite hard to get those satisfying upgrades.

[Recovery]

Because you're getting better equipment that you CAN'T USE. That's why it's a bad thing. To get an upgrade, but not be able to use it because a poorer piece of equipment is needed to keep the set bonus alive sucks. The fact that you have 2/4 (if the set bonus is just that good) items that you can't change until you get a full set of the NEXT tier is crazy. That we've got new dungeons and content out to do, but you still can't change that any one of those four because it's part of a set is the problem.

Like, here's the easiest I can put it.
You get your set from say Blackwing Descent in Cataclysm. Firelands patch comes out. You get a chest off one of the bosses. More than that, you get your Set Chest. Too bad, can't use it. Doesn't matter that it's an upgrade. Doesn't matter that it's even the next set. You've only got one piece, so it's garbage to you until you get at least the next, if not 3 others.

I think alot of peoples' arguments stem from the distaste of gearing through Mythic+ tbh. People are reaching for whatever they can reach for to make Mythic+ not be so important. Resilience back on pvp gear, set gear, etc all makes mythic+ gear NOT the best for that particularly activity.

What we should really be focused on is getting ION and blizzard to understand that we as a community dont want Mythic+ to be such a priority and basically sole gearing method.

Mythic+ should be reverted to its challenge mode iteration. Rewards past Mythic 0 should be aesthetic (same as pvp) and offer no power to the character so that we can actually spend our time doing what we enjoy, rahter than mindlessly farming keys so that we can be RELEVANT in doing what we enjoy.

I wish i could interview ION. i would ask the hard questions:

"Ion, did it ever occur to you that players dont want to farm the SAME EXACT dungeons for 2 years in order to be efficient in pvp and raiding?"

"Ion did it ever occur to you that players who like pvp dont always like pve and vice versa?"

"Ion did it ever occur to you that when something isnt broken, you dont have to "fix it"?"

[RoKPaNda]

I really don't understand the hate for Ion, he has a much better understanding of the game than his predecessors and I say that as someone who thinks Shadowlands is shaping up to be a pretty mediocre expansion.

Arthas had the worst story in the history of this game. He went from total pawn in Warcraft 3 to "lol magic mind powers omg" in Wrath to daddy issues right at the end. lol. No matter what they do to him is going to be an improvement.

I think alot of peoples' arguments stem from the distaste of gearing through Mythic+ tbh. People are reaching for whatever they can reach for to make Mythic+ not be so important. Resilience back on pvp gear, set gear, etc all makes mythic+ gear NOT the best for that particularly activity.

What we should really be focused on is getting ION and blizzard to understand that we as a community dont want Mythic+ to be such a priority and basically sole gearing method.

Mythic+ should be reverted to its challenge mode iteration. Rewards past Mythic 0 should be aesthetic (same as pvp) and offer no power to the character so that we can actually spend our time doing what we enjoy, rahter than mindlessly farming keys so that we can be RELEVANT in doing what we enjoy.

Is that what the community wants or what you personally want? Because for myself I'm really not impacted by Mythic+ - I'm wearing 3 pieces of M+ gear, the rest of my gear is from raiding. I can't speak from a PvP perspective, but from a PvE perspective M+ is great. M+ was always meant to be an alternative to raiding, so yeah it has to be competitive rewardwise. Turning it to challenge modes would just drop the participation rate and make it one of those features that gets abandoned.

[Mirishka]

Just finished reading the bullets from Ion's latest interview, and man I gotta say, besides the usual "we have no clue what we're doing, but we want to do this and that" stuff, I'm specifically dissapointed to read the 3 following things:

You'll be okay.

[xiloclipse]

I really don't understand the hate for Ion, he has a much better understanding of the game than his predecessors and I say that as someone who thinks Shadowlands is shaping up to be a pretty mediocre expansion.

Arthas had the worst story in the history of this game. He went from total pawn in Warcraft 3 to "lol magic mind powers omg" in Wrath to daddy issues right at the end. lol. No matter what they do to him is going to be an improvement.

Ion does get too much crap.

There's balance to be had in calling the game and someone poo. It could always be worse.

I remember in MoP, myself, and MANY others on here ranted on and on about Ghostcrawler and class balancing. Fast forward to today, many view MoP and especially the work GC did for WoW as the last true golden age of class balancing. Say what you want about the pandas, guilds were strong, raiding was strong, class balance was strong, and if you were to have that coupled with some of the positive systems of today, like M+, the game could be very positive on a whole again. I still play today, but I know we took GC for granted. Just be careful, Ion could be the devil you know....

[Nite92]

Just finished reading the bullets from Ion's latest interview, and man I gotta say, besides the usual "we have no clue what we're doing, but we want to do this and that" stuff, I'm specifically dissapointed to read the 3 following things:

• Set bonuses are one of the reasons they pulled back on tier sets originally. They limited item diversity because certain slots were locked to tier sets.

What? Set items locking slots away? Hello BFA neck, cloack, helm, shoulder, chest?! I mean, sure you exchange a few azerites till you cash in on that specific one which nets you most power, but it was the same with set items as well, as there was mutliple ilvl iterations of each item.

• PvP stats are not returning. Itemization will remain like it is in Battle for Azeroth, with the inclusion of a PvP vendor to give players more choice of gear acquisition.

Why? Why force PvP players, who exclusively enjoy PvP, into farming PvE? Why allow PvE players to gain PvP power through NOT playing PvP? To me, this honestly is neither fair, nor logical. PvP players should have stronger PvP gear, and vice versa.

• Arthas is obviously SOMEWHERE in the Shadowlands, but they want to be respectful with the character. We will learn more about him and his true nature, but we most likely won't be adventuring or interacting much with him.

Say that again please, YOU don't want to whatnow?! Ion, I respect you for all your contributions to WoW, and the fact you have devoted such a bit part of your entire life to this game. You are obviously not doing it primarily for the money, but let's get one thing straight: WE pay your greedy AF company to create content that WE must enjoy. If the community wants more Arthas, then give them the hell more Arthas. What's the problem with that? His character's integrity? Illidan was pissed upon when nobody asked for him. Why not give us Arthas, now that we want him? And yeah, I know some of you out there will be like "NOOOOO" but I guarantee you if it's put through a vote, the majority of the community will want Arthas back.

You don't understand why locking slots is an issue. The neck/azerite armor is not a problem because no other pieces drop in those slots. But with tier sets you could not wear upgrades quite often, because you needed to keep your tier bonus, which was amplified by the m+ weekly cache and tf in legion and bfa. By changing the weekly cache in SL this is a smaller problem.

[Konthos]

Well I mean very likely they want to move away from Arthas as to not fuck up his story. That being said I do believe that a new helm of domination and frostmourne will be forged for Bolvar since there always has to be a conduit to allow the spirits to pass over and I believe that was the original purpose but the helm and sword were twisted by the legion/nethrazim.

Unless they retcon the shit out of the lore, that part is not true.
The helm and Frostmourne are new things compared to the warcraft timeline, they did not exist 10.000 years ago in the war of ancients and long after that.
And souls could pass to the other side just fine...
The reason why there must always be a Lich King (Helm of Domination, not Frostmourne) is because that helm controls the Scourge, without it, the Scourge goes ballistic.

Also, to the OP, quit being so entitled.
Like many said, what you want is not what everyone wants, and what everyone wants, is not what Blizzard should do, thats bad storytelling.
You dont pay them to create content, you pay them to enjoy the content they create.
Arthas' story is done, it was concluded in a nice way, let it be.

[Rune B]

Why? Why force PvP players, who exclusively enjoy PvP, into farming PvE? Why allow PvE players to gain PvP power through NOT playing PvP? To me, this honestly is neither fair, nor logical.

Exclusively playing PvP in a game that is entirely PvE oriented is pretty silly. Why allow PvE players to gain PvP powers? How about to get them interested? Or level the playing field? PvP players always say they enjoy the challenge. They don't. They enjoy facerolling PvE'rs.

[DotEleven]

I think alot of peoples' arguments stem from the distaste of gearing through Mythic+ tbh. People are reaching for whatever they can reach for to make Mythic+ not be so important. Resilience back on pvp gear, set gear, etc all makes mythic+ gear NOT the best for that particularly activity.

What we should really be focused on is getting ION and blizzard to understand that we as a community dont want Mythic+ to be such a priority and basically sole gearing method.

Mythic+ should be reverted to its challenge mode iteration. Rewards past Mythic 0 should be aesthetic (same as pvp) and offer no power to the character so that we can actually spend our time doing what we enjoy, rahter than mindlessly farming keys so that we can be RELEVANT in doing what we enjoy.

I wish i could interview ION. i would ask the hard questions:

"Ion, did it ever occur to you that players dont want to farm the SAME EXACT dungeons for 2 years in order to be efficient in pvp and raiding?"

"Ion did it ever occur to you that players who like pvp dont always like pve and vice versa?"

"Ion did it ever occur to you that when something isnt broken, you dont have to "fix it"?"

I mean, yeah, but you don't need to run Mythic + if you don't want to. That has nothing to really do with tier sets and the problem of not being able to use upgraded gear because a weaker piece is part of a set.

[Nite92]

I wonder why...



I believe azerites are the exact same thing as set items. Once you get your hands on thy one you need, you forget about equipping anything else ever again in that slot, despite the fact that the azerite piece can potentially offer different bonuses. The unused bonuses are pratically non-existent as they are inferior and never used.
Honestly the one and only upside I can see in azerite gear is the fact they can be rerolled and adjusted for other specs, but then again, this perk becomes too expensive after you use it a couple of times, which still forces you to settle specific pieces for each spec and just stick with them, rather than having the flexibility to reroll the same ones over and over when you're swapping.

No they are not. There is only azerite with different options, meaning it is just like any other item, but instead of bis stats you change bis traits. I've never heard someone complaining about getting a bis ring because now that slot is dead, lol.

Tier sets lock slots were other items could be e.g. m+ weekly cache items, or super op corrupted items, but because t sets, you may not be able to ever wear them, because tier sets reduce the 5 item slots they use to 1, because you can ever only eq. One of those 5 slots with something else, meaning each good item beyond the best one in those 5 slots is worthless.

[Recovery]

I really don't understand the hate for Ion, he has a much better understanding of the game than his predecessors and I say that as someone who thinks Shadowlands is shaping up to be a pretty mediocre expansion.

Arthas had the worst story in the history of this game. He went from total pawn in Warcraft 3 to "lol magic mind powers omg" in Wrath to daddy issues right at the end. lol. No matter what they do to him is going to be an improvement.



Is that what the community wants or what you personally want? Because for myself I'm really not impacted by Mythic+ - I'm wearing 3 pieces of M+ gear, the rest of my gear is from raiding. I can't speak from a PvP perspective, but from a PvE perspective M+ is great. M+ was always meant to be an alternative to raiding, so yeah it has to be competitive rewardwise. Turning it to challenge modes would just drop the participation rate and make it one of those features that gets abandoned.

This is why you have to make competitive like pvp. For example..

Complete all dungeon on +5 - get title similar to challenger
Complete all dungeons on +10 - get title similar rival or duelist
Complete all dungeons on +15 - get title and transmog
complete all dungeons on +20 - get title and enchant appearance plus cloak or tabbard appearance
Complete all dungeons on +25 - ( maybe only .05 percent of playerbase does this, so its a really rare title and a mount) - maybe "keymaster"
Complete all dungeons on +25 with more than 5 minutes remaining on timer - (0.1 percent of playerbase achievs this) Mount / even more rare title thats different each season - maybe tyrannical keymaster or bolstering keymaster or something along those lines.

[Master Factician]

Why the fuck don't they bring back rare BiS items? Have set bonuses be good and somewhat easy to obtain, then make items that are better than having the set bonus but much harder to obtain. They could also make the set bonuses more utility based.

[Mirishka]

Oh yes! Brilliant idea, the community is always right! If they listened to the loudest portion of those paying their "greedy asses", this is what would happen.

Released in 2022 - WoW: Fortnight!

No, really. The community is a cesspool of conflicting opinions, don't listen to us.

I wish I could upvote this post.

[RoKPaNda]

This is why you have to make competitive like pvp. For example..

Complete all dungeon on +5 - get title similar to challenger
Complete all dungeons on +10 - get title similar rival or duelist
Complete all dungeons on +15 - get title and transmog
complete all dungeons on +20 - get title and enchant appearance plus cloak or tabbard appearance
Complete all dungeons on +25 - ( maybe only .05 percent of playerbase does this, so its a really rare title and a mount) - maybe "keymaster"
Complete all dungeons on +25 with more than 5 minutes remaining on timer - (0.1 percent of playerbase achievs this) Mount / even more rare title thats different each season - maybe tyrannical keymaster or bolstering keymaster or something along those lines.

And participation goes into the shitter and the feature gets abandoned. It's not going to see widespread play. It's meant to be an alternative to raiding so the rewards have to be competitive. It's not meant to be challenge modes from MoP, which was something you finished once for the rewards and then never touched again unless you were selling carries.

[Mirishka]

"Ion, did it ever occur to you that players dont want to farm the SAME EXACT dungeons for 2 years in order to be efficient in pvp and raiding?"

"Ion did it ever occur to you that players who like pvp dont always like pve and vice versa?"

"Ion did it ever occur to you that when something isnt broken, you dont have to "fix it"?"

Because its totally Ion and Ion alone doing all of those things.

[Akibaboy]

Say that again please, YOU don't want to whatnow?! Ion, I respect you for all your contributions to WoW, and the fact you have devoted such a bit part of your entire life to this game. You are obviously not doing it primarily for the money, but let's get one thing straight: WE pay your greedy AF company to create content that WE must enjoy. If the community wants more Arthas, then give them the hell more Arthas. What's the problem with that? His character's integrity? Illidan was pissed upon when nobody asked for him. Why not give us Arthas, now that we want him? And yeah, I know some of you out there will be like "NOOOOO" but I guarantee you if it's put through a vote, the majority of the community will want Arthas back.

This is why consumers are the plague of creativity. I'm not saying Blizzard are amazing writers, but the fact that this is the common denominator that is catered to is pretty pathetic. There's a big difference between bringing back Illidan, who was epicly shat upon in The Burning Crusade in pretty much every conceivable way (Oh, and Kael'thas too), somewhat fixing his storyline with retcons, and giving him a send-off that actually fit his character... and bringing back someone who had a solid arc in his original game, and was dealt with 100% appropriately in his subsequent WoW appearance.

I don't want Arthas at all. He's a complete character with a complete arc. Illidan was a character with a half-completed story that they turned into a shitty big bad for no reason... and later had the good sense to at least try and fix it.

[ClassicPeon]

It's what the cool kids do.

I like new stories and not having a redemption story about everyone. I don't think they need to bring back a character to have a good story. We need a good story but like they said, not at the cost of ruining an old story if they don't feel like they'll do it right.

I eman to be fair its the game director of the game this entire site is about.

[Neuroticaine]

The expansion takes place in the afterlife and several dead characters will be featured in it.

You missed my point entirely. Bringing Thrall back was not the same as bringing Illidan back. Thrall wasn't dead. Illidan was. Thrall was just off doing his own thing. So comparing the two made no sense at all. They could have brought Thrall back for any reason they wanted to, and the reason they did made perfect sense.

You are correct, though, that they are very likely going to do SOMETHING with Arthas.