Ion & Co. at it again

[DemonHunter18]

that's.. what they're doing, they're just not bringing him back into the MAIN story.

It's better that way.

They ruined most of their characters, especially the last 3 expansions.

[shadowmatrix]

It's better that way.

They ruined most of their characters, especially the last 3 expansions.

Who did they ruin?

[docterfreeze]

So you want a dumb stat like resilience? Depending on your class it was either worthless or amazing in PvP. It even spilled over to PvE to were some classes would favor resilience. PvP spilling into PvE is perfectly fine since the entire game is PvE based and PvP is a side thing. Making a side thing required for the main focus of the game, however isn't. In this case it'd be like requiring pet battles to perform max damage in PvE.

When PvP was separate from PvE it was not a side activity popularity-wise.



Doesn't have to be resilience either. WoD PvP gear is the best solution as long as they also keep ridiculous PvE effects under control in instanced PvP.

Pvp stars not coming back is a fine change with out Titan forging as long as you can get mythic+/raid quaility gear from pvping and they give you a choice in stars and a reasonable climb up to the gear though lower ranked items on the vender. That way if you want to do mythic+ and go into pvp you can but if you want to just pvp and put more time into it it’s a viable gearing choice.

Assuming they never add anything like absorb trinkets, lash of the void, cut of death, rep-gated power gains, remote guidance device, drest trinket, essences, or corruption again. That's a big assumption. If anything like those are added, PvP-only gearing doesn't work.

You're playing a MMORPG. You should be able to use pve items for pvp and the other way around. Adding annoying fake stats just to allow pvpers live in a bubble helps absolutely no one and gatekeeps pvp from regular players who get their gear through pve. I think it's been very clearly communicated time and again, that the devs, as well as most of the players, don't want this game to become a lobby where everyone queues for their piece of content of choice. Everything should rely on everything else. If you don't like that, there are other games: FPS, Moba, Hero shooters etc.

Since TBC a PvPer could be competitively geared solely via PvP gear. Now suddenly after one expansion of forced PvE, people come out of the woodworks to say that all those expansions did it wrong and BfA did it right. PvE players still live in a bubble and it shows. Getting blood of the enemy or conflict and strife is nothing compared to how much PvE the PvP players have to do. Making it equal would just make both parties suffer.

[FelPlague]

Just finished reading the bullets from Ion's latest interview, and man I gotta say, besides the usual "we have no clue what we're doing, but we want to do this and that" stuff, I'm specifically dissapointed to read the 3 following things:

• Set bonuses are one of the reasons they pulled back on tier sets originally. They limited item diversity because certain slots were locked to tier sets.

What? Set items locking slots away? Hello BFA neck, cloack, helm, shoulder, chest?! I mean, sure you exchange a few azerites till you cash in on that specific one which nets you most power, but it was the same with set items as well, as there was mutliple ilvl iterations of each item.

• PvP stats are not returning. Itemization will remain like it is in Battle for Azeroth, with the inclusion of a PvP vendor to give players more choice of gear acquisition.

Why? Why force PvP players, who exclusively enjoy PvP, into farming PvE? Why allow PvE players to gain PvP power through NOT playing PvP? To me, this honestly is neither fair, nor logical. PvP players should have stronger PvP gear, and vice versa.

• Arthas is obviously SOMEWHERE in the Shadowlands, but they want to be respectful with the character. We will learn more about him and his true nature, but we most likely won't be adventuring or interacting much with him.

Say that again please, YOU don't want to whatnow?! Ion, I respect you for all your contributions to WoW, and the fact you have devoted such a bit part of your entire life to this game. You are obviously not doing it primarily for the money, but let's get one thing straight: WE pay your greedy AF company to create content that WE must enjoy. If the community wants more Arthas, then give them the hell more Arthas. What's the problem with that? His character's integrity? Illidan was pissed upon when nobody asked for him. Why not give us Arthas, now that we want him? And yeah, I know some of you out there will be like "NOOOOO" but I guarantee you if it's put through a vote, the majority of the community will want Arthas back.

Azerite did not lock shoulder, helm, and chest, because ANY peice could fit in the slot, while with sets you only had 1 option, the teir.

pvp stats were fucking horrible.

holy shit, they are learning, how is this a bad thing?

your entire fuckighn post screams nothing but entitlement, and lack of knowledge about what the playerbase actually wants.

- - - Updated - - -

it would be idiotic not to see him.

a cameo or something is better than nothing.

literally read the interview, he will be there, but a minor charecter.

[docterfreeze]

PvP stats are dumb.

PvP content (minus world) should scale everyone to the same equal level anyway.

PvP gear should be totally aesthetic, with maybe a couple unique trinkets.

If you don’t want that, you don’t want real PvP, you want to be an OP jackass taking out weaker, less experienced people and that doesn’t create a good PvP environment for the game.

Both the "upgrades should matter" and "PvP should be about skill" crowds were appeased with old PvP gear and gearing systems. When you got conquest pieces you felt it. When you were fully geared you could have fair fights against other fully geared players.

[Mojo03]

Both the "upgrades should matter" and "PvP should be about skill" crowds were appeased with old PvP gear and gearing systems. When you got conquest pieces you felt it. When you were fully geared you could have fair fights against other fully geared players.

You're generalizing crowds to fit your vague narrative. What evidence? What iteration of "old pvp" gear? What system of acquiring? The game has been out for 15 years, you'll have to be more specific.

Have fair fights against other fully geared players? You mean the other .01% of the player base that was fully geared? That's good pvp to you?

[docterfreeze]

You're generalizing crowds to fit your vague narrative.

Have fair fights against other fully geared players? You mean the other .01% of the player base that was fully geared? That's good pvp to you?

If only .01% of players could get full conquest gear then that's pretty sad. I know that is something you pulled out of your ass though. Capping conquest was not difficult. 10 arena wins, 1 RBG win.

[Mojo03]

If only .01% of players could get full conquest gear then that's pretty sad. I know that is something you pulled out of your ass though. Capping conquest was not difficult. 10 arena wins, 1 RBG win.

Why is it sad? Why should people be forced to put in 40+ hours of time just to get gear so they can pvp how it is intended?

What iteration of "old pvp" gear? What system of acquiring? The game has been out for 15 years, you'll have to be more specific.

[docterfreeze]

Why is it sad? Why should people be forced to put in 40+ hours of time just to get gear so they can pvp how it is intended?

What iteration of "old pvp" gear? What system of acquiring? The game has been out for 15 years, you'll have to be more specific.

cata/mop/wod. Honor gear (infinitely farmable from casual PvP) into conquest gear from rated PvP (weekly cap, cap increases if you missed a week). No rating requirements.

The progression between skill and gear lined up beautifully in this system. As a fresh max level you were both unskilled and ungeared. As you got better gear you also got good. By the time you had full conquest you'd be a somewhat decent PvPer. If you wanted a skill-based fight you would simply find another player who had full conquest (anyone 1800+ usually). All serious PvPers had full conquest asap.

[Erlking]

Just finished reading the bullets from Ion's latest interview, and man I gotta say, besides the usual "we have no clue what we're doing, but we want to do this and that" stuff, I'm specifically dissapointed to read the 3 following things:

• Set bonuses are one of the reasons they pulled back on tier sets originally. They limited item diversity because certain slots were locked to tier sets.

What? Set items locking slots away? Hello BFA neck, cloack, helm, shoulder, chest?! I mean, sure you exchange a few azerites till you cash in on that specific one which nets you most power, but it was the same with set items as well, as there was mutliple ilvl iterations of each item.

• PvP stats are not returning. Itemization will remain like it is in Battle for Azeroth, with the inclusion of a PvP vendor to give players more choice of gear acquisition.

Why? Why force PvP players, who exclusively enjoy PvP, into farming PvE? Why allow PvE players to gain PvP power through NOT playing PvP? To me, this honestly is neither fair, nor logical. PvP players should have stronger PvP gear, and vice versa.

• Arthas is obviously SOMEWHERE in the Shadowlands, but they want to be respectful with the character. We will learn more about him and his true nature, but we most likely won't be adventuring or interacting much with him.

Say that again please, YOU don't want to whatnow?! Ion, I respect you for all your contributions to WoW, and the fact you have devoted such a bit part of your entire life to this game. You are obviously not doing it primarily for the money, but let's get one thing straight: WE pay your greedy AF company to create content that WE must enjoy. If the community wants more Arthas, then give them the hell more Arthas. What's the problem with that? His character's integrity? Illidan was pissed upon when nobody asked for him. Why not give us Arthas, now that we want him? And yeah, I know some of you out there will be like "NOOOOO" but I guarantee you if it's put through a vote, the majority of the community will want Arthas back.

Thank you sir. I want to give this post an up vote, couldn't have said it better myself.

[Biomega]

I've always said that the constant desire to mash PvP and PvE together is a major failure point for WoW. Apparently they disagree, and just want everyone to be jumping back and forth all the time. Okay.

Tier sets... Eh, never like them. Set bonuses were fun - locking 4 slots on your gear was not. I thought we were past that now. Just put those effects on trinkets or whatever. If you really want a collect-them-all vibe just have bosses drop those trinkets in 4 scattered pieces.

Arthas can stay dead and gone, I'd always rather see new characters and new villains than the US comic book twist of OH NO GUESS WHAT ARCHVILLAIN #1 CAME BACK FROM THE DEAD FOR THE 685738965th TIME!

[Mojo03]

cata/mop/wod. Honor gear (infinitely farmable from casual PvP) into conquest gear from rated PvP (weekly cap, cap increases if you missed a week). No rating requirements.

The progression between skill and gear lined up beautifully in this system. As a fresh max level you were both unskilled and ungeared. As you got better gear you also got good. By the time you had full conquest you'd be a somewhat decent PvPer. If you wanted a skill-based fight you would simply find another player who had full conquest (anyone 1800+ usually). All serious PvPers had full conquest asap.

But, not having gear requirements increases the pool of potential pvpers... Maybe some are amazing, but don't want to go through the slog of re-gearing every season. Keeping a gear system like that forces them to spend dozens of hours re-gearing every season and it fragments the player base. Gear shouldn't be a roadblock to pvp. It's a skill-based activity, where as gearing makes more sense in PVE where you're slowly getting strong enough to overpower a boss.

[wraysbury]

The game has been around for 15 years and pvp gear (with resilience or pvp ilevel) has been around for more than 9 of those years. If it was such a terrible solution as some dumb PvEers around here are making it to be, it wouldn't have lasted for most of the game's existence.

PvP gear and resilience were a thing before, during and after the peak of wow's success, so any claim that it "destroyed" wow or "destroyed pvp" is absolute bullshit.

This is why it is unacceptable that after giving up on the dumb alternative they came up with in legion (templates) they are not going back to that and not even bothering to explain why. It has been a staple of wow for most of wow's existence.

[ZazuuPriest]

That is completely different. You are locking those slots with Azerite that can be interchanged. Tier sets were basically the piece of gear you wore in that slot and forgot all other pieces that didn't have tier stats on them. So it made pieces that didn't contribute to the tier set worthless and not even worth considering for majority of the classes. Azerite pieces could be used regardless since they all gave bonuses of some kind.

Except, and hear me out of this because it's wild, you're fucking wrong. All you had to do was go for the tier bonus' that was worth it and it never required you to wear all 8 pieces so you could very easily get a really good stat piece and then play with your set around that and then maybe later you get an even better piece and then you had to decide what pieces of tier/non-tier to wear. With azerite it's just: this one is good for raiding and this one is good for M+ and that's if you're lucky because a lot of specs just have: This is the azerite piece you need and all the other ones are garbage.

[Laughingjack]

When PvP was separate from PvE it was not a side activity popularity-wise.



Doesn't have to be resilience either. WoD PvP gear is the best solution as long as they also keep ridiculous PvE effects under control in instanced PvP.



Assuming they never add anything like absorb trinkets, lash of the void, cut of death, rep-gated power gains, remote guidance device, drest trinket, essences, or corruption again. That's a big assumption. If anything like those are added, PvP-only gearing doesn't work.



Since TBC a PvPer could be competitively geared solely via PvP gear. Now suddenly after one expansion of forced PvE, people come out of the woodworks to say that all those expansions did it wrong and BfA did it right. PvE players still live in a bubble and it shows. Getting blood of the enemy or conflict and strife is nothing compared to how much PvE the PvP players have to do. Making it equal would just make both parties suffer.

I mean those quotes have not aged well at all... You start to see the same teams repeated (not spec but the actual players) commonly as low as 1700 and the wait times past 2k are absurd.

The pvp question is a hard one to solve. Personally I don't think pvp should reward any gear with stats on it but rather cosmetics. All the stats a player would have would come from a pre generated stat template.

- - - Updated - - -

The game has been around for 15 years and pvp gear (with resilience or pvp ilevel) has been around for more than 9 of those years. If it was such a terrible solution as some dumb PvEers around here are making it to be, it wouldn't have lasted for most of the game's existence.

PvP gear and resilience were a thing before, during and after the peak of wow's success, so any claim that it "destroyed" wow or "destroyed pvp" is absolute bullshit.

This is why it is unacceptable that after giving up on the dumb alternative they came up with in legion (templates) they are not going back to that and not even bothering to explain why. It has been a staple of wow for most of wow's existence.

Gear mattering in pvp is a dumb concept to start with. You should be given the identical stats as everyone else and skill should be the deciding factor.

[wraysbury]

Gear mattering in pvp is a dumb concept to start with. You should be given the identical stats as everyone else and skill should be the deciding factor.

That would be ideal, but a system like before where there is some gear progression separate from the pve one would be better than whatever the fuck we have now.

[Seranthor]

Just finished reading the bullets from Ion's latest interview, and man I gotta say, besides the usual "we have no clue what we're doing, but we want to do this and that" stuff, I'm specifically dissapointed to read the 3 following things:

• Set bonuses are one of the reasons they pulled back on tier sets originally. They limited item diversity because certain slots were locked to tier sets.

What? Set items locking slots away? Hello BFA neck, cloack, helm, shoulder, chest?! I mean, sure you exchange a few azerites till you cash in on that specific one which nets you most power, but it was the same with set items as well, as there was mutliple ilvl iterations of each item.

• PvP stats are not returning. Itemization will remain like it is in Battle for Azeroth, with the inclusion of a PvP vendor to give players more choice of gear acquisition.

Why? Why force PvP players, who exclusively enjoy PvP, into farming PvE? Why allow PvE players to gain PvP power through NOT playing PvP? To me, this honestly is neither fair, nor logical. PvP players should have stronger PvP gear, and vice versa.

• Arthas is obviously SOMEWHERE in the Shadowlands, but they want to be respectful with the character. We will learn more about him and his true nature, but we most likely won't be adventuring or interacting much with him.

Say that again please, YOU don't want to whatnow?! Ion, I respect you for all your contributions to WoW, and the fact you have devoted such a bit part of your entire life to this game. You are obviously not doing it primarily for the money, but let's get one thing straight: WE pay your greedy AF company to create content that WE must enjoy. If the community wants more Arthas, then give them the hell more Arthas. What's the problem with that? His character's integrity? Illidan was pissed upon when nobody asked for him. Why not give us Arthas, now that we want him? And yeah, I know some of you out there will be like "NOOOOO" but I guarantee you if it's put through a vote, the majority of the community will want Arthas back.

Thats the thing with Ion, regardless of what he says and/or does there will ALWAYS be someone to flip their shit and instead of acting like an adult they rush to the forums to have a hissy over it. Get this, you DO have a vote, It's called 'Vote with your wallet'.

[Laughingjack]

That would be ideal, but a system like before where there is some gear progression separate from the pve one would be better than whatever the fuck we have now.

Your not wrong but I would be lying if I said I knew what it looked like. The problem with resilience was that unless you carried your own around constantly world pvp became a utter annoyance as your attacked by enemies you can't really kill.

Gear right now is overly reliant on pve with how easy mythic+ offers gear for rather low difficulty. I think the way forward is to simply removing stats from pvp rather then hoping that they try the impossible to balance method of two gear paths.

[trapmaster]

cata/mop/wod. Honor gear (infinitely farmable from casual PvP) into conquest gear from rated PvP (weekly cap, cap increases if you missed a week). No rating requirements.

The progression between skill and gear lined up beautifully in this system. As a fresh max level you were both unskilled and ungeared. As you got better gear you also got good. By the time you had full conquest you'd be a somewhat decent PvPer. If you wanted a skill-based fight you would simply find another player who had full conquest (anyone 1800+ usually). All serious PvPers had full conquest asap.

I would love this bringing back system. This was so much better. Idk why it is being taken out and reply on casino. I really enjoyed those times but i guess they "acknowledged" it and take it away from us so it's like telling us we shouldn't be really playing it for FUN.

[Seranthor]

Lmao, the entitlement... No, that's now how game development works. Developers put out a game and content, YOU decide if it's worth the money to you. They are not your contractors. You don't get to decide what content they should do. If you want Blizzard to do exactly what you order them to, better buckle up and buy the company, then you get to decide.

It's not,
You pay -> They create content.
It's,
They create content -> You pay.

I cant disagree with your assessment.

- - - Updated - - -

And yeah, to you and @Everybody else touching on this one: I was aware some of you would pull the "there's no we when there's more more than one opinion" card, but it just so happens I'm quite actively reading the forum and have my own (personal of course) observations. So if you'd like - make the experiment. Post a poll and we can talk again in a week.

As others have said, you can demand all you want. You want to make sure your demands are met. pony up the billions to buy the company or buy yourself a controlling share of the board. The biggest mistake Blizzard makes is trying to please everyone instead of making the game that THEY, themselves, are proud of.