Ion & Co. at it again

[docterfreeze]

But, not having gear requirements increases the pool of potential pvpers... Maybe some are amazing, but don't want to go through the slog of re-gearing every season. Keeping a gear system like that forces them to spend dozens of hours re-gearing every season and it fragments the player base. Gear shouldn't be a roadblock to pvp. It's a skill-based activity, where as gearing makes more sense in PVE where you're slowly getting strong enough to overpower a boss.

Gearing is an integral part of WoW, has been since day one. WoW players whether they be PvPers or PvErs like to gear, otherwise they're playing the wrong game. They've all come to terms with the fact that this is how the game works and they like it. Problems occur when one side is forced to do the other side's content for competitive gear. In the system I talked about, that was mostly a non-issue. Dozens of hours every 3-5 months is a non-issue, especially if you're enjoying those hours.

[wraysbury]

The problem with resilience was that unless you carried your own around constantly world pvp became a utter annoyance as your attacked by enemies you can't really kill.

This was always a very dubious argument as it would merely take a few hours of running random BGs for a few days to get a full set of pvp gear.

I mean in world pvp you'd get whined at by people who were willing to spend hours and hours grinding stupid shit but doing a few hours of BGs to get a resilience set to use while questing was somehow an herculean task.

[Laughingjack]

This was always a very specious argument as it would merely took a few hours of running random BGs for a few days to get a full set of pvp gear.
I mean in world pvp you'd get whined at by people who were willing to spend hours and hours grinding stupid shit but doing a few hours of BGs to get a resilience set to use while questing was somehow an herculean task.

I mean... you don't want to take a few hours to grind out mythic gear to pvp why should people who pve spend a few hours grinding out gear to pvp?

[Chromell]

Lol there's no way they aren't doing something big with Arthas, when they brought back Illidan in Legion and Thrall in BfA.

Illidan actually fits well into Legion's storyline with the introduction of DHs and given that he ends the expansion as Sargeras' jailer.

[Gaidax]

Getting rid of the whole PvP/PvE gear differentiation was a blessing for PvP, because it makes more people touch PvP instead of be like "fuck me need to grind another set of gear hurrr".

There is still an issue of raid gear being ultimately better for PvP, but at least there is no hard segregation between PvE and PvP players anymore.

[Kel_Sceptic]

You are wrong, pvp players are not forced into anywhere. Blizzard should only ensure that there are no broken raid trinkets that absolutely destroys in pvp and that's it.
PvP gear is absolutely viable in PvP, check ladders.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...neissk%C3%ADll
This dude has only 2 pieces from raid (that's why I said it's stupid to have broken trinkets in raid and the only thing blizzard should fix) and has 3000 arena rating
M+/Visions and scenarios should be fine for pvp players as it doesn't really require huge time investment nor godlike pve skills

I don't know what "ladders" have you checked dude, but most top 100 players froam any ladders barrely have any PVP items on them. And your expample has ONLY 2 ELITE(PVP) items and the rest are PVE Mythic/Heroic gear.

I am only playing PvP and Visions, and I tell you it sucks to gear up alts for PvP if you don't do Raiding/M+ at all.
If there is diversity and multiple ways to gear up, then they should have the same quality gear.
I'm 1660CR with 462 ilvl, and can't get past 1600 beacause of all ilvl 475 I'm running into. Maybe I'm not made for 1800CR, but then again htf am I supposed to gear up almost equivalent to raiding, if I get 450ilvl gear drop and a weekly 460ilvl drop ? When doing M+10 gives you ilvl 455 and weekly 465. If it weren't for the 5masks vision, I would stay ilvl 465 for life


LE: when 90% of the gear used on top 100 ladders for 2v2 and 3v3 is PVE Gear, that clearly shows there is a real problem with PVP gear. Just checked the first 40 players from 2v2 ladder and ALL of them have M+ farms between 15-23. https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ga...aderboards/2v2
I just hope in SL they will make a more good approach about the ilvl offered by the PvP conquest and ranks.

[wraysbury]

I mean... you don't want to take a few hours to grind out mythic gear to pvp why should people who pve spend a few hours grinding out gear to pvp?

Because they chose to play on pvp servers/with warmode on?
Because why would I want to do a completely unrelated activity that I don't like (mythic) to be able to do the one I want to do (world pvp/BGs)?
Would you want to grind some pvp to be able to do mythics?

[Gaidax]

Illidan actually fits well into Legion's storyline with the introduction of DHs and given that he ends the expansion as Sargeras' jailer.

While Illidan resolved in a good fashion, I'd say him making an appearance was Blizz throwing everything they got at that expansion after the whole WoD thing.

I don't think they should push their luck with all these legacy heroes suddenly getting revived after they were supposed to be dead.

[Anastacy]

You can still use it with other specs or disenchant it for residiuum to get the piece you want, derp

What if I'm not interested in other specs, or my other specs aren't desirable for whatever situation I'm in? Off-set pieces that aren't an upgrade over a tier piece can also be used for other specs, derp.

And residuum was added later to the game, derp. Are you suggesting Blizzard can't reiterate the "tier set" system to improve upon it?

- - - Updated - - -

If you get a pair of shoulders with bad azerite traits then the shoulders aren't an upgrade anyways so it doesn't really matter, but use for other spec or scrap it? Considering Azerite gear doesn't give any minor stats and only gives Agi/Int/Stre + Stamina the ilvl doesn't really matter as much.

So use the non-tier set that "should be an upgrade" for other specs?

[Laughingjack]

Because they chose to play on pvp servers/with warmode on?
Because why would I want to do a completely unrelated activity that I don't like (mythic) to be able to do the one I want to do (world pvp/BGs)?
Would you want to grind some pvp to be able to do mythics?

I could kinda see your argument pre warmode but with the increased rewards its a lot harder to argue that people should just pass on it unless they grind the content you enjoy.

[sweatshopkids]

Jesus everytime one interview with Ion pops up, there are sudden 10 hate threads created...

Scenario: You buy a loaf of bread only to find out the person who made it fucked it up. That's Ion with WoW.

[wraysbury]

I could kinda see your argument pre warmode but with the increased rewards its a lot harder to argue that people should just pass on it unless they grind the content you enjoy.

PvPers have to put up with this literally all the time for almost everything. And it's usually "do some PvE or never get the thing at all". When we can get the same thing as available in PvE but a little slower by doing PvP, we are usually happy.

Like when it turned out that the thing to unlock the crafting of ilevel 480 engineering goggles had a chance to drop from honorable kills, I was actually happy. Usually there's a crafting reagent whose description says "drops from bosses in mythic dungeons", and "lol fuck you pvpers".

[lollerlaban]

What if I'm not interested in other specs, or my other specs aren't desirable for whatever situation I'm in? Off-set pieces that aren't an upgrade over a tier piece can also be used for other specs, derp.

And residuum was added later to the game, derp. Are you suggesting Blizzard can't reiterate the "tier set" system to improve upon it?

Not their problem you can't grasp concepts with multiple choices, derp. And your other specs are desireable in whatever content you're doing because you're not pushing top 5 mythic progression in the world, derp.

Are you suggesting Blizzard can't reiterate the "tier set" system to improve upon it?

Yes, that's literally what i'm saying. You think it's for fun they have to nerf previous tiers time after time after time? If the tier bonuses weren't absolute dogshit to begin with in entry tiers, because they HAD to make the next set stronger and the set after that EVEN STRONGER.

[Ghostile]

Scenario: You buy a loaf of bread only to find out the person who made it fucked it up. That's Ion with WoW.

You buy a loaf of bread, turns out you don't like it, you call out the baker as if he had turned the bread into shit, despite the fact other people like it.

[Gaidax]

This PvP discussion reminds me of how I relatively recently decided to get Conflict and Strife rank 3 from 0.

So I just rolled in with my Mythic geared Destrolock and 0 cr in some random 3s, in like half a day of random 3s PuGs I was 1700cr.

It was especially hilarious in the beginning where I was there with my 600k HP vs some dudes who barely had a bit more than half that amount and whom I nuked for almost 200k CBs.

After I got C&S I forgot PvP exists again. So my feedback is that for one if someone rocks mythic grade gear he really has no place in sub 1800cr matching, Blizz needs to take that into account somehow.

[Mojo03]

Gearing is an integral part of WoW, has been since day one. WoW players whether they be PvPers or PvErs like to gear, otherwise they're playing the wrong game. They've all come to terms with the fact that this is how the game works and they like it. Problems occur when one side is forced to do the other side's content for competitive gear. In the system I talked about, that was mostly a non-issue. Dozens of hours every 3-5 months is a non-issue, especially if you're enjoying those hours.

What does gearing accomplish in PvP other than give players with it an unfair advantage? Why is there power progression in a skill based activity? It doesn’t make sense. You can still get gear in PvP without it affecting the power balance. You should even be allowed customize your stat allocation to a degree to fit your play style, etc. But the power balance shouldn’t be messed with by allowing some players to have an advantage. It should always be a level playing field as much as possible.

Forcing people to spend dozens of hours just to play how it’s intended is bad design and a huge turnoff for most. Not to mention unnecessary and bad for the overall balance. Yes, you don’t get prestige for it, which I get the feeling is what you really liked about the older system. Feeling special for having elite gear most others don’t and feeling more powerful in BGs.

[Kyphael]

Say that again please, YOU don't want to whatnow?! Ion, I respect you for all your contributions to WoW, and the fact you have devoted such a bit part of your entire life to this game. You are obviously not doing it primarily for the money, but let's get one thing straight: WE pay your greedy AF company to create content that WE must enjoy. If the community wants more Arthas, then give them the hell more Arthas. What's the problem with that? His character's integrity? Illidan was pissed upon when nobody asked for him. Why not give us Arthas, now that we want him? And yeah, I know some of you out there will be like "NOOOOO" but I guarantee you if it's put through a vote, the majority of the community will want Arthas back.

Hear, hear! Arthas is the only reason this game became as popular as it did with Warcraft III. He's the face of the franchise. the Michael Jordan. The Babe Ruth. The Steve Austin. The Tiger Woods of this franchise, and all of Shadowlands should revolve around him. Whenever there is a scene not involving Arthas, every character should be going, "where's Arthas? What would Arthas think about this?"

Frostmourne should be reforged into the Legendary of the expansion for Death Knights.

The expansion should end with Arthas sticking a sword through Sylvanas belly, then proclaiming The Maw free.

Then Arthas is welcomed back into The Alliance with open arms, and crowned King of The Forsaken of Lordaeron, but instead of getting back with Jaina, he puts a hand to her face and says, "sorry Jaina... I can't watch you do this," and strut over to Vereese Windrunner, and plant a big smooch and say "let's make some half high elf/human babies, baby," and BAM, playable High Elves and Half-Human customization.

You know you want it, haters.

[Kel_Sceptic]

This PvP discussion reminds me of how I relatively recently decided to get Conflict and Strife rank 3 from 0.

So I just rolled in with my Mythic geared Destrolock and 0 cr in some random 3s, in like half a day of random 3s PuGs I was 1700cr.

It was especially hilarious in the beginning where I was there with my 600k HP vs some dudes who barely had a bit more than half that amount and whom I nuked for almost 200k CBs.

After I got C&S I forgot PvP exists again. So my feedback is that for one if someone rocks mythic grade gear he really has no place in sub 1800cr matching, Blizz needs to take that into account somehow.

Thank you! This is exactly what is wrong with gear PVE vs PVP. And your ideea about beeing placed in the 1800CR braket, I can dig with that. But still, all top PvPers have 90-95% of their gear PVE only. That says it all.
Anyhow, thank you for your feedback, maybe it will sheed some light to those naysayers that there is no problem in PVP vs PVE gear and how they are alligned atm.

[Anastacy]

Not their problem you can't grasp concepts with multiple choices, derp. And your other specs are desireable in whatever content you're doing because you're not pushing top 5 mythic progression in the world, derp.

Not anyone's problem you can't imagine solutions other than "Don't use tier sets", derp.

And maybe my other specs aren't viable in the content I'm most interested in. Maybe I'm a main-tank for my guild, and they don't need another healer/DPS. Maybe I'm a healer, and my tank spec is useless to my guild. Derp.

Yes, that's literally what i'm saying. You think it's for fun they have to nerf previous tiers time after time after time? If the tier bonuses weren't absolute dogshit to begin with in entry tiers, because they HAD to make the next set stronger and the set after that EVEN STRONGER.

Well, if you're just so close-minded that you can't possibly fathom any solution, that's on you. Derp?

Note: I'm not giving a vote of confidence to Blizzard to do such a thing, but saying it's impossible is short-sighted.

[docterfreeze]

What does gearing accomplish in PvP other than give players with it an unfair advantage? Why is there power progression in a skill based activity? It doesn’t make sense. You can still get gear in PvP without it affecting the power balance. You should even be allowed customize your stat allocation to a degree to fit your play style, etc. But the power balance shouldn’t be messed with by allowing some players to have an advantage. It should always be a level playing field as much as possible.

Forcing people to spend dozens of hours just to play how it’s intended is bad design and a huge turnoff for most. Not to mention unnecessary and bad for the overall balance. Yes, you don’t get prestige for it, which I get the feeling is what you really liked about the older system. Feeling special for having elite gear most others don’t and feeling more powerful in BGs.

The system was completely fair. Players who put in the time to get good also got gear. The players who put in no time were neither skilled nor geared. There's power progression because it's WoW first and PvP second. You have to like WoW to like WoW's PvP, and liking WoW means you like progression systems. Again you make generalization about what WoW's PvP population wants with no proof. WoW players like getting gear, PvPers like skill-based encounters. The old system gave both to satisfy the WoW-playing PvPer.