9.0 General Discussion

[gunner_recall]

Dude, you are on the rise with asinine theories lately. Raid geometry? All raids are mostly squares/rectangles/circles, any even shapes really, ESPECIALLY boss rooms, which count the most.

Pretty much every raid is hallway -> room -> two hallways that lead to rooms -> hallway that leads to room -> big room -> room

[plz delete account]

so, anything about Revendreath you want me to test?

[gunner_recall]

Not every raid tbh. Nighthold, Highmaul, Firelands, SSC all had a more open plan.

There's a few raids where it's not like that but definitely the more linear raids are like that. And even then, some of the non-linear raids are like that.

But yeah, when they do the more open designs, those are really awesome. Like I don't think anyone will dispute that Nighthold was much nicer than Emerald Nightmare or Tomb.

[huth]

My point was that HFC is incredibly low detail compared to most modern raids which shows the art team was not taking it incredibly seriously.

You're basically running conspiracy nut levels of selfassured bullshit here. You don't know crap about development, stop trying to pretend you have any clue what the future could bring.

[LemonDemonGirl]

You mean he has a stand?

He's a JoJo villain?

That's the hypest shit I ever heard. This expansion is already 10/10

Well, anything can be a Stand right?

I mean, there's a gun Stand lol

[EbaumsTipster]

You're basically running conspiracy nut levels of selfassured bullshit here. You don't know crap about development, stop trying to pretend you have any clue what the future could bring.

Uh huh, sure.

[Makabreska]

Uh huh, sure.

And this is other picture from Antorus, so yeah, nice nitpick:



You really try to pose for some knowledgable guy, that keeps bringing up "logical conclusions", but you are not very good at it.

[EbaumsTipster]

And this is other picture from Antorus, so yeah, nice nitpick:

Feel free to post a single part of HFC that doesn't look like it was made in Roblox. It's one of the most uninspired looking/low effort raids to come out of the team.

[Hugnomo]

Considering that WoD got no new areas or dungeons (as Tanaan was already in at launch) and the final patch was an area revamp plus one raid that was mostly large square halls, I'm going to chalk it up to a logical guess.

Fewer/smaller patches in an expansion lead to more work on the next one. 8.3 was small because workload shifted, 6.1 and 6.2 were the same thing and explains why the Broken Isles were so big and detailed (as the art team wasn't doing shit during post-launch WoD).

I guarantee that if 8.2 hadn't been so big then Shadowlands would be bigger, because resources would end up going there instead.

No, I understand that. I have no problem with educated guesses, but I think we should be careful not to pass educated guesses as actual facts. Both are valid points of discussion. But I just think it should be clear which is which.

[Makabreska]

Feel free to post a single part of HFC that doesn't look like it was made in Roblox. It's one of the most uninspired looking/low effort raids to come out of the team.

Opinion noted. Half of Antorus, if not most of it looks like a green wastes or green, metallic fortress. You are bringing up SUBJECTIVE feelings about raid design, and presenting them as proof of some crappy theories.

[EbaumsTipster]

Opinion noted. Half of Antorus, if not most of it looks like a green wastes or green metallic fortress. You are bringing up SUBJECTIVE feelings about raid design, and presenting them as proof of some crappy theories.

Really? Because if it wasn't me saying it then most people would agree that the reason Broken Isles is more developed is because WoD was abandoned as an expansion (something that has been said multiple times on these threads) and nitpicking about "w-well you said HFC wasn't as well designed/didn't have as much effort in it so you're wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!" is pointless and arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm going to get on an alt and try to have some discussion as you're getting heated when you see a cereal logo next to an otherwise understandable and logical post.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Not every raid tbh. Nighthold, Highmaul, Firelands, SSC all had a more open plan.

Probably because they chose that design not becuase "OMG LESS EFFORT."

[Makabreska]

Really? Because if it wasn't me saying it then most people would agree that the reason Broken Isles is more developed is because WoD was abandoned as an expansion (something that has been said multiple times on these threads) and nitpicking about "w-well you said HFC wasn't as well designed/didn't have as much effort in it so you're wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!" is pointless and arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm going to get on an alt and try to have some discussion as you're getting heated when you see a cereal logo next to an otherwise understandable and logical post.

Don't get mad, that your dumb theories are getting challenged. And keeping repeating "logic" won't score you any validity points. You are one of those guys, that keeps making up things in his head, that (for him) seem logical, tries to force them as facts, and looks with disbelieve as others reject them ("I'm surrounded by morons!"). One of your "logics" was this "fact", that if you play a pre-Mists race, you are for world revamp. Well guess what, I play Draenei.

[Beefhammer]

Maw would be larger if they completely dropped support for BFA, so there's that. The only reason Suramar was as good as it was was because they added nothing for Warlords.

They had two completely separate teams working on Legion and WoD at the same time. Suramar is what it was because Legion had almost 4 years of dev time compared to the normal 2 years. The also didn't drop support, they cut and not implement ideas due to time constraints. Do you really thing once the expansion releases all the raids and shit have been developed already? They were still working on Tanaan, The naval yard, and HFC, among other things and balancing, bug fixes.

- - - Updated - - -

Feel free to post a single part of HFC that doesn't look like it was made in Roblox. It's one of the most uninspired looking/low effort raids to come out of the team.

You do realize it was designed to resemble parts of the TBC dungeons and utterly destroyed by the fights. So you cherry picking out of context other than final boss room, holds zero credibility in your attempt to claim any developmental knowledge.

- - - Updated - - -

Really? Because if it wasn't me saying it then most people would agree that the reason Broken Isles is more developed is because WoD was abandoned as an expansion (something that has been said multiple times on these threads) and nitpicking about "w-well you said HFC wasn't as well designed/didn't have as much effort in it so you're wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!" is pointless and arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm going to get on an alt and try to have some discussion as you're getting heated when you see a cereal logo next to an otherwise understandable and logical post.

No, you just have a bad reputation regardless. Any other mook trying to say the same thing would be met with the same replies.

Also the bolded part. Just becasue it was said doesn't make it true. It wasn't abandoned it was cut. Huge difference that you should be able to understand.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Oh I was just saying, not everything is linear.
The thing is, those raids had an open design because they were open as areas. Complex building design is just not common anyhow; what we'd see in the world is lobbies and wings which is exactly what Blizzard does. Now there are more complex designs possible but it's not like they'd make much sense.

What I'd have loved for something like Torghast (or Nyalotha which for me was such a disappointment) would be some Escher geometries but I have no idea if the engine can even do that.

Nyalotha as a raid or the zones themselves never bothered me, its just some bosses have....quirks that I really did not like. The trash leading into that maw thingie isn't my thing. Strangely I actually enjoyed EP more then Nyalotha at least IMO. Visually Nyalotha is definitely better even if it isn't what I imagined(At least not completely).

Torghast looks(From what I've seen) cool and scary enough for me to enjoy it. In door or outdoors, I'm not that picky, it usually depends on whats exactly is out there or "in there."

[Sondrelk]

Nyalotha as a raid or the zones themselves never bothered me, its just some bosses have....quirks that I really did not like. The trash leading into that maw thingie isn't my thing. Strangely I actually enjoyed EP more then Nyalotha at least IMO. Visually Nyalotha is definitely better even if it isn't what I imagined(At least not completely).

Torghast looks(From what I've seen) cool and scary enough for me to enjoy it. In door or outdoors, I'm not that picky, it usually depends on whats exactly is out there or "in there."

After having played Ny'alotha for a while now I feel like it simply lacks that epic spark that some of the other great final raids have had. Not just whether this is more to do with the way the raid is designed making it feel very small, or just that very few of the bosses means anything to the player, or feels like the conclusion to a story worthy of an MMO.

Guess it is more the way the raid is designed. While the wings make the dungeon very nice to go through on progress and gives you a lot of room on what to do I don't think the various wings have close to enough variety to make you feel like they are separate.
Compare to Blackrock Foundry which somehow managed to achieve this difference between the wings. One being the mines, one being production and one being shipping.

[Sondrelk]

Oh I like Torghast, just wish it was crazier

- - - Updated - - -


The thing is, the skybox is amazing but the rest . . . just doesn't do it for me. Ahn'qiraj in it's low rez glory does a better job at being alien than Nyalotha does. And you just don't look at the skybox that much anyhow

Nya'Alotha is definitely somewhat strange, but not really in a way that makes you think "insane". I bet it is one of thsoe things that just looks better as a concept than when you have it in-game. The fact that much of it takes place inside buildings that looks very similar certainly doesnt help.
Maybe if the entire raid was composed of the Wrathion fight thing where you get a weird backdrop, like Uldum or Vashj'ir then it might feel better. If nothing else to remind the player more of how influental N'zoth was. That way when the illusion is dispelled and you get put into the version of the raid we have now it would be more jarring.

Or of course BfA could have had even a smidge more cohesion between what it started as and what it ended as. I know SoO was what people were jeering, but SoO was awesome, and is what I consider the gold standard for epic final raid for an expansion. It pulled together all the disparate plot threads in a way that didnt at all make it feel unnatural when you went from fighting a giant dinosaur to fightign the Klaxxi.

[Yarathir]

You mean he has a stand?

He's a JoJo villain?

That's the hypest shit I ever heard. This expansion is already 10/10

Wonder if the sword drops from him and if it does, whether it will float behind players the same way.

[Jaggler]

Nya'Alotha is definitely somewhat strange, but not really in a way that makes you think "insane". I bet it is one of thsoe things that just looks better as a concept than when you have it in-game. The fact that much of it takes place inside buildings that looks very similar certainly doesnt help.
Maybe if the entire raid was composed of the Wrathion fight thing where you get a weird backdrop, like Uldum or Vashj'ir then it might feel better. If nothing else to remind the player more of how influental N'zoth was. That way when the illusion is dispelled and you get put into the version of the raid we have now it would be more jarring.

Or of course BfA could have had even a smidge more cohesion between what it started as and what it ended as. I know SoO was what people were jeering, but SoO was awesome, and is what I consider the gold standard for epic final raid for an expansion. It pulled together all the disparate plot threads in a way that didnt at all make it feel unnatural when you went from fighting a giant dinosaur to fightign the Klaxxi.

I think one of the things that bothered me, is that Ny'alotha is doing two things but not to their completion. Either go full out on the hyper-geometrical architecture or the fleshy-organic stuff. Ny'alotha does both, but none of them excite me really. They are both... "nice enough".

[Makabreska]

I think one of the things that bothered me, is that Ny'alotha is doing two things but not to their completion. Either go full out on the hyper-geometrical architecture or the fleshy-organic stuff. Ny'alotha does both, but none of them excite me really. They are both... "nice enough".

I vastly prefer the first wing, with those cold, metallic shapes. Then you go outside, and it's like "uhhhh, this suuuuuuucks".