Do humans have a just reason to hate blood elves for joining the horde?

[Highelf]

You've never played warcraft 3 by the looks of it.

BE's tried to join the alliance, but a racist PoS actively tried to get them killed that was apart of the human armies and resulted in them having to escape and joined the horde because the Alliance had shown itself as a bad choice at the time

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Warcraft 3

What about WC3?

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Yes, we all know Garithos is the true villain of the franchise and that justifies everything the Horde ever does.

It's the horde grasping at straws per the norm. But we has honor!

[Surfd]

Yes, we all know Garithos is the true villain of the franchise and that justifies everything the Horde ever does.

Small tip for you: There are very few "true villains" in the entire series. Only the Legion/Scourge actually fit that bill as far as the content of WC3 and almost everything that happens after goes. Everyone else is more or less reacting to the events as they unfold and doing their best to survive in the world they are handed. Garithos is still a dick tho, and got less then he deserved in the end.

[TheRevenantHero]

Hum, no. By the time Quel'thalas got attacked by Arthas and the Scourge, Lordaeron had already been dealt with. There was no more Lordaeron.



The genocidal beast is the Orcish Horde. You know that first war who was all about raiding, burning, plundering human towns and the destruction of Stormwind? You will tell me that it's not the same Horde but tell that to Joe the Farmer who got his farm and family ravaged by blood-thirsty green monsters.

That's not genocide. That's war. Genocide is more like the Troll Wars where the humans and quel'dorei systematically hunted down and killed all of the forest trolls.

[Saltysquidoon]

Look guys I know genocide is the word of the week but can we stop using it to describe every incidence of violence that has ever happened in the history of Azeroth? Not only is it rarely accurate in the first place but it's needlessly emotive and rarely helpful.

hypocrisy in accepting the strong free will undead aka DKs without even see anything wrong in it (we kill forsaken because they are undead, but if u are strong DK, u are welcome of course duh), void elfs (who are evil even by horde standards, and horde have walking corpses who practiced experiments on living specimen!)

The alliance don't accept DKs... Like at all (neither do the horde for that matter). Player characters are a gameplay contrivance, not only are DKs exceedingly rare in the first place (as legion but mostly BFA was the first time they extended their ranks since wrath) but absolute best case they're seen as a necessary evil, like locks but worse because they were actual enemy combatants not just consorting with evil forces.

How are the void elves evil btw?

[Frontenac]

Jaina and everyone in Theramore will tell Joe that the orcs have been redeemed and are no longer the corrupted genocidal maniacs they were

As if Jaina would care about the opinion of small folks in the Kingdom of Stormwind... And even if she did, the Horde would do something horrid to remind Joe about that time the orcs destroyed his farm and killed his family about 30 years ago. I'm sorry, but the Orcs haven't been really good at playing the redeemed ones. And some years later, even Jaina will agree with Joe the Farmer.

[Frontenac]

That's not genocide. That's war. Genocide is more like the Troll Wars where the humans and quel'dorei systematically hunted down and killed all of the forest trolls.

This is still what he meant by "genocidal beast". Besides, the Orcish Horde was genocidal. The Path of Glory is there as a testament to that fact.

[TheRevenantHero]

This is still what he meant by "genocidal beast". Besides, the Orcish Horde was genocidal. The Path of Glory is there as a testament to that fact.

The fel blood orcs were, yes. The New Horde is not. If you're gonna hold the Path of Glory against current orcs, then we need to hold all the actions of the humans against them. And if we do that, they are winning on the genocide tally lmao

[Spiffums]

BEs never reprimanded humans for Arthas and Garithos (who has never even been mentioned in WoW). That's an argument BEs fans come up with on the forums to delude themselves that the Alliance is more evil than it actually is.

Humans dont give a shit if BEs joined the Horde because they know they won't stay loyal to the Warchief whenever there's a faction war going on.

The humans responsible for Arthas are dead....just like the high elves who got killed.


All in all, the Human kingdoms were used to the wishy-washy ways of the Elves. Especially magic using Humans as we've seen with Dalaran for the most part.

[Ardenaso]

The fel blood orcs were, yes. The New Horde is not. If you're gonna hold the Path of Glory against current orcs, then we need to hold all the actions of the humans against them. And if we do that, they are winning on the genocide tally lmao

Havnen't we already come up with the resolution though that the Alliance of Lordaeron = current Alliance?

[TheRevenantHero]

Havnen't we already come up with the resolution though that the Alliance of Lordaeron = current Alliance?

Ok then the fel blood orcs aren't the current Horde so therefore people need to stop using it as an example.

[Varodoc]

The humans responsible for Arthas are dead....just like the high elves who got killed.


All in all, the Human kingdoms were used to the wishy-washy ways of the Elves. Especially magic using Humans as we've seen with Dalaran for the most part.

"The humans responsible for Arthas" is actually not human but an orc shaman. And they are not really dead, they are in the Horde. Occupying some places in Ghostlands.

[Frontenac]

The fel blood orcs were, yes. The New Horde is not. If you're gonna hold the Path of Glory against current orcs, then we need to hold all the actions of the humans against them. And if we do that, they are winning on the genocide tally lmao

Current Orcs were part of the Horde that killed all those Draenei whose bones are paving the Path of Glory. Varok Saurfang was one of them, as Drek'tar and many others who had nightmares because of what they did back then. Fel Blood Orcs were a thing in TBC, not during the First War.

[TheRevenantHero]

Current Orcs were part of the Horde that killed all those Draenei whose bones are paving the Path of Glory. Varok Saurfang was one of them, as Drek'tar and many others who had nightmares because of what they did back then. Fel Blood Orcs were a thing in TBC, not during the First War.

No, they really weren't. The Path of Glory was formed BEFORE the orcs landed on Azeroth.

[Ardenaso]

Current Orcs were part of the Horde that killed all those Draenei whose bones are paving the Path of Glory. Varok Saurfang was one of them, as Drek'tar and many others who had nightmares because of what they did back then. Fel Blood Orcs were a thing in TBC, not during the First War.

Varok's dead; Drek'thar's senile; Eitrigg is too old. Are there even still other living orcs from the Old Horde?

[Razion]

That was already retconned into Jaina simply teleporting them to the prison

Well, during the quest Stay of Execution, Magister Hathorel confronts Jaina during the rescue of Baine, and says that he would have Jaina 'suffer the death of her friends - just as he had' during the Purge.

[Frontenac]

No, they really weren't. The Path of Glory was formed BEFORE the orcs landed on Azeroth.

Yeah, exactly. And where Saurfang, Drek'tar and all those so-called "heroes" were born? Draenor. They were part of the Orcish Horde. The very same who killed all those Draenei. Even Durotan was (against his wishes). The whole Orc story arc since WC3 is about freeing themselves from the sins they have comitted. We cannot exonerate them of the things they did during the First and Second Wars (i.e. "it was not them, it was those other Orcs") or their whole story arc would make no sense. Back in the First War, the Orcs were bloodthirsty genocidal maniacs. And people in Azeroth would remind that. Losing a brother or a mother to the axe of red-eyed, ape-faced, tusked green behemoth while your farm is burning is not something you can brush aside easily, even if Jaina Proudmoore said so. So the first reaction of a human learning that the Blood Elves joined the Orcs would be "WTF! Bloody turncloaks, the lot of them!"

[Highelf]

The fel blood orcs were, yes. The New Horde is not. If you're gonna hold the Path of Glory against current orcs, then we need to hold all the actions of the humans against them. And if we do that, they are winning on the genocide tally lmao

The New Horde is not(Theramore, Teldrassil) up next, he'll use the victim card and the scapegoat piñata.

[TheRevenantHero]

The New Horde is not(Theramore, Teldrassil) up next, he'll use the victim card and the scapegoat piñata.

Theramore isn't genocide. It was the Alliance's largest naval installation and therefore not genocide. It'd be like calling Pearl Harbor genocide.

I have plenty of arguments as to why Teldrassil is technically not genocide but I'm not gonna bother going into that.

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Yeah, exactly. And where Saurfang, Drek'tar and all those so-called "heroes" were born? Draenor. They were part of the Orcish Horde. The very same who killed all those Draenei. Even Durotan was (against his wishes). The whole Orc story arc since WC3 is about freeing themselves from the sins they have comitted. We cannot exonerate them of the things they did during the First and Second Wars (i.e. "it was not them, it was those other Orcs") or their whole story arc would make no sense. Back in the First War, the Orcs were bloodthirsty genocidal maniacs. And people in Azeroth would remind that. Losing a brother or a mother to the axe of red-eyed, ape-faced, tusked green behemoth while your farm is burning is not something you can brush aside easily, even if Jaina Proudmoore said so. So the first reaction of a human learning that the Blood Elves joined the Orcs would be "WTF! Bloody turncloaks, the lot of them!"

So are you going to have the same hatred and blame for all the genocides humans have enacted over the course of Azeroth's history then?

[Surfd]

Well, during the quest Stay of Execution, Magister Hathorel confronts Jaina during the rescue of Baine, and says that he would have Jaina 'suffer the death of her friends - just as he had' during the Purge.

Even if Jaina has been retconned (more like headcannoned) into simply teleporting them into prison, it doesn't alter the fact that the High Elven faction that represented the "alliance" side of things was basically running around the city with impunity lynching the Blood Elven population like a bunch of lunatics essentially with her tacit consent because she decided to render a guilty verdict on all of them for the actions of an incredibly tiny select few.

[Highelf]

Theramore isn't genocide. It was the Alliance's largest naval installation and therefore not genocide. It'd be like calling Pearl Harbor genocide.

I have plenty of arguments as to why Teldrassil is technically not genocide but I'm not gonna bother going into that.

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So are you going to have the same hatred and blame for all the genocides humans have enacted over the course of Azeroth's history then?

Oh wait you're the guy I said no longer has an argument when it comes to this. I remember now. Moving on.

Infracted.