Poll: Who lost its soul?

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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    The majority of retail raiders have done normal and don’t just live in lfr.

    You lost this debate and just trying to move the goal posts to something that is intentionally vague.
    I wouldn't talk about "winning a debate" after getting angry over requesting facts and continuing to pull claims out of ones ass.

    I mean, where's your source for "majority of retail have cleared normal"?

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    I wouldn't talk about "winning a debate" after getting angry over requesting facts and continuing to pull claims out of ones ass.

    I mean, where's your source for "majority of retail have cleared normal"?
    Who’s angry? You that’s it. You are acting awfully childish and immature because you lost a debate.

    It’s easier to just admit defeat than pout like this because I dropped facts on you. You had to run to the lfr excuse like 99% of players are lfr only when that isn’t the case at all

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Who’s angry? You that’s it. You are acting awfully childish and immature because you lost a debate.

    It’s easier to just admit defeat than pout like this because I dropped facts on you. You had to run to the lfr excuse like 99% of players are lfr only when that isn’t the case at all
    Calm down, dry your tears and try again.

    Do you have the sources or are your just making things up?

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    Calm down, dry your tears and try again.

    Do you have the sources or are your just making things up?
    WARcraft logs or do facts not agree with you?

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    WARcraft logs or do facts not agree with you?
    Would you kindly point out the part in Warcraft logs that shows which percentage of players have completed a raid?

  6. #226
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    You are never rewarded for reading the quest text.
    The reward is to reveal the story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Is literally just a chore with a GPS telling you where to click and where to go
    I would be fine with having to explore to find the way. Most are not. Blizzard caved on that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Is not even considered "content"
    That's your opinion. Quest texts reveal story details if not starting the thread for other stories.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Blizzard makes 500 quests every expansion and for what? For disposable content?
    To tell the stories they want to tell.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    I must say...i ALSO dont understand the questing concept...
    Quests are integral to RPG's mostly as a form of story generation and progression.

    I'm not saying that Blizzard could not do better. They could and they should. The fact remains that as along as dungeons, raids and PVP are more important in the game than telling stories it's likely they won't change much and Blizzard will miss out on a lot of potential customers that might "sit and stay a while" otherwise.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    Would you kindly point out the part in Warcraft logs that shows which percentage of players have completed a raid?
    Would you kindly go count the total Mc/bwl players vs nyalotha and just admit you are wrong?

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Would you kindly go count the total Mc/bwl players vs nyalotha and just admit you are wrong?
    Ah, so it doesn't exist and you admit you are merely making things up?

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    Ah, so it doesn't exist and you admit you are merely making things up?
    Begone, troll. I’ve already pointed out how classic has more people raiding and the evidence but until you hear ion say it you’ll keep playing intentionally oblivious.

    Go ahead and believe whatever you want but I’m done with this juvenile debate. Only so many times I can win the same debate

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Begone, troll. I’ve already pointed out how classic has more people raiding and the evidence but until you hear ion say it you’ll keep playing intentionally oblivious.

    Go ahead and believe whatever you want but I’m done with this juvenile debate. Only so many times I can win the same debate
    It's pretty interesting how someone can get this upset just because I asked for a source.
    Surely classic is now in better shape when you made classic players look a bit less intelligent by making claims you completely fail to back up.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    It's pretty interesting how someone can get this upset just because I asked for a source.
    Surely classic is now in better shape when you made classic players look a bit less intelligent by making claims you completely fail to back up.
    You have trouble reading or counting? WARcraft logs and count the total players. You’re welcome

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    You have trouble reading or counting? WARcraft logs and count the total players. You’re welcome
    No, I am asking what points that majority of retail players have done normal, like you claimed.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    No, I am asking what points that majority of retail players have done normal, like you claimed.
    Moving the goal posts. Got it. We both know the majority does normal or above

    Go ahead and compare the total players who do Mc and bwl with nyalotha

    Or is that such a bad disparity that you had to rely on the fantasy that lfr is a large segment of the game

    I won. You lost. Deal with it

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    We both know the majority does normal or above
    How do we know?

    We don't even know the number of players, so knowing what amount of them have cleared a raid is impossible.
    Unless there's a widget you found on warcraft logs that I cannot find.
    But surely you can guide me to the chart that shows the percentage of players that have cleared normal, assuming it exists, right?

  15. #235
    Mechagnome Venteus's Avatar
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    Yikes, watching that kid jump through 10+ hoops to arrive at the conclusion that classic has more raiders has been exhausting. Player numbers aren't out, breathe and come to terms with it.
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  16. #236
    All warcraft logs can do is show the minimum amount of players who raid... Not every raid is logged.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2020-05-18 at 02:50 PM.
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  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    You mean back when you had to run dungeons multiple times for pre-raid bis, reputation or materials?
    Yes, that’s exactly that, before they turned into a fully scaled grinding mode ala greater rift.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    Yes, and you didn't need "pre raid bis" to clear shit first tier content.

    And guess what, even if you did farm pre raid bis, once the pre-raid "event" passed, dungeons did nothing.
    I like all of the content in the expansion to be relevant.
    For 10 years the game had clear progression paths, you could be done progression-wise with a game mode. Nowadays this isn’t the case anymore and I don’t understand why you should be rewarded for doing the same bunch of world quests for the 36375327863th time or clearing 5 scaled low level dungeons when you’re decked in normal or heroic gear. You don’t level up to 120 by killing level 5 boars outside Org. That’s good if you like even the most boring and unchallenging content to be relevant and rewarding but I don’t and that’s exactly when they made it this way that this game lost his soul to me.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    The reward is to reveal the story.

    I would be fine with having to explore to find the way. Most are not. Blizzard caved on that.

    That's your opinion. Quest texts reveal story details if not starting the thread for other stories.

    To tell the stories they want to tell.

    Quests are integral to RPG's mostly as a form of story generation and progression.

    I'm not saying that Blizzard could not do better. They could and they should. The fact remains that as along as dungeons, raids and PVP are more important in the game than telling stories it's likely they won't change much and Blizzard will miss out on a lot of potential customers that might "sit and stay a while" otherwise.
    Im just saying i dont understand the concept of designing 500 quests every expansion as chores and not as a platform for immersion purposes.

    Well...i dont actually know if quests are interesting, because i never read them...
    But how many quests are "interesting" out of 500 in your expertise?

  19. #239
    I get the impression that (Blizzard feels) a lot of the WoD sub losses had to with the overall lack of content in the game. You could absolutely be a higher end mythic raider and only log on for raids and a few minutes of garrison chores, and there wasn't a whole lot else to do if you're weren't a collector. You could even raid on multiple alts with minimal time invested. People got bored, and people quit.

    It was after that they got into the player-hours as a metric of game success and went the completely opposite direction. BFA had other problems, but I hope they dial back on the grind a bit. Now you're losing players to burnout in addition to everything else.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by crazyman2 View Post
    I get the impression that (Blizzard feels) a lot of the WoD sub losses had to with the overall lack of content in the game. You could absolutely be a higher end mythic raider and only log on for raids and a few minutes of garrison chores, and there wasn't a whole lot else to do if you're weren't a collector. You could even raid on multiple alts with minimal time invested. People got bored, and people quit.

    It was after that they got into the player-hours as a metric of game success and went the completely opposite direction. BFA had other problems, but I hope they dial back on the grind a bit. Now you're losing players to burnout in addition to everything else.
    I think the MAUs as a metric for successful game design really started in Legion personally. I do agree Legion was a knee jerk reaction to "lack of content" complaints in WOD. Legion, I believe, had a ton of great content. However, just like BFA I stopped playing it shortly after launch. The reason I stopped is because in addition to adding some very good "actual content", they also introduced a lot of what I like to call "repetitive systems as a stand in for actual content". Worse, from my perspective, is that any remotely serious raider knew these grinds were absolutely not optional. Add the most casino inspired distribution system I have ever seen in any game used to distribute the most powerful items that could be acquired and all the good work the designers put into the "actual content" was completely overshadowed by my hate for these new systems. Systems that make you repeat content are not content in and of themselves and are generally not very enjoyable for the player base, in my opinion.

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