High Profile Youtubers DO NOT Speak for me.

[Hekazi]

Blizzard should put an end to all the game related YouTubers, they do more harm than good to be honest.

[Ealyssa]

Yeah I can't go 5 seconds into a Bellular video without his gigantic ego punching me in the balls.

What ?, as a game dev, I really can't, as a game dev myself, understand, you know as a game dev, why ? All opinion are only myself, as a game dev.

[Nzx]

Gaming youtubers and wow youtubers in particular has always been driven by being incredible negative and hateful to the game that is feeding their mouths, people like "helvesbabyface" "bellarur" "preach" etc and many others make a living on constantly hating on the game making a new wow rant video every day

This is so fucking accurate. Bellular and Preach are the worst culprits for just making content that they think fits the current narrative the best - in Legion, Preach made rage videos about not getting the "right" legendaries on his mage, then when Azerite came out in BFA he said "oh legendaries were great from the very beginning, I loved getting sephuz first on my mage because i could play around it". In 8.3 Preach made a video every day on every different character and spec and couldn't stop raving about how good the game was. Bellular loved WoW so much he wanted to make a complete fucking narrative overhaul and organise voice lines for every single quest - then he saw that general perception of BFA was negative and he'd make more money fanning the flames so all of a sudden WoW is garbage.

WoW content creation in general is fucking toxic garbage and most often made by people who either used to be good or never were good and who simply parrot whatever shit opinions they saw on the forums because making content for angry people gets you more clicks and therefore more money. The people who are actually good at the game often have like ~2k viewers on Twitch because actually enjoying the game and trying to help other people enjoy it and get better at it doesn't draw attention.

[Charge me Doctor]

I'd like to see return of crendor and cox with more wow content, their recent video shows that they are way more focused on "having fun" part and not giving a fuck about being cutting edge players

[Lahkesis]

I mean, I will just preface this by saying, I have not watched any of these full clears or multiple hour streams of streamers running through torghast. I did watch the Bellular video after reading your post.

If I am not mistaken, The Torment thing doesnt seem like something that does what you suggests it will do. That is, it doesnt seem like something that will "make the tension ramp up as you climb". In my brief look into torghast, it seems to get extremely easy as you climb right now, as you get decked out in anima powers. Also, the torment system resets per floor right? so how does that "make the tension ramp up as you climb"? i dont get that. It is literally only implemented as a slow enrage so that you cant wait 10 min for heroism before every pull.

The torment stacks up to 5-6 floors and clears and resets once you clear that "grouping" of floors by killing a boss, otherwise you aren't wrong. I am in the alpha for BFA (not a streamer, I am a F/F member) and the torment changes to Torghast have been blown WAY out of proportion. If you are playing normally, the torments will likely not bother you at all. (Keep in mind, I've only encountered 1 to 2 torment types. As more become available, I'll be testing them for sure.)

For example:

This weekend I did Torghast on a BM Hunter and a Holy Priest. Both characters in the "endless" version of Torghast that's available right now went through 5 - 6 levels where the "1% stacking fire bebuff" was active. On both characters I had an anima power (stacking to various degrees) that gave me health back as soon as I attacked a new enemy. (It also worked on pots, which might be a bug). So, as I was losing 5% health every X seconds, guess who was healing herself just by multi-shotting or Holy Novaing a new group? Yeah. As long as I was playing normally, the torment was a complete non-issue and it did not make me feel like I had to "rush". What it did do was make me feel like "Welp, I better not kill a bunch of shit and then go AFK for 20 minutes to make a sandwich and a cup of coffee cause I might cuck myself".

Also, my Hpriest absolutely wrecked (for those of you who like to play healer in all content). Unlike islands or visions where soloing/going off on your own is a chore, doing Torghast as a Holy Priest with anima powers was genuinely much more fun than those two other pieces of content. I got an ability that gave me a chance to stun enemies with the magnificence of the Light and they cowered in fear for like 5 seconds. Very fun ability when coupled with Holy Nova and then mind sear (returning to your kit in SL).

[fooliuscaesar13]

I've really only watched a handful of the youtubers, and after watching several of their videos I always find they NEVER speak for me either, and I rarely agree with their negative diatribes. Which is funny considering i'm pretty cynical. I can only digest so many "I hate this game I can't stop playing because X" videos.

Heels used to make me laugh, now I just want him to get a therapist.
Preach is ok imo, but I can only watch his stuff in small doses.
Asmongold would be ok if he wasn't so goddamn dramatic. His legion of fanatics irk me also. How is it that there are so many youtube channels dedicated to the reactions of one person playing video games?

Bellular is the worst of the worst imo, and I can't wait for his game to release so people can rip it to shreds like he does everything else. Of all of the whiny Brits out there, he's the Charlie Whiniest.

The only youtubers that I can still watch are TipsOut and Kargoz, and even then it's really only when they're talking Classic.

[Thestrawman]

The torment stacks up to 5-6 floors and clears and resets once you clear that "grouping" of floors by killing a boss, otherwise you aren't wrong. I am in the alpha for BFA (not a streamer, I am a F/F member) and the torment changes to Torghast have been blown WAY out of proportion. If you are playing normally, the torments will likely not bother you at all. (Keep in mind, I've only encountered 1 to 2 torment types. As more become available, I'll be testing them for sure.)

For example:

This weekend I did Torghast on a BM Hunter and a Holy Priest. Both characters in the "endless" version of Torghast that's available right now went through 5 - 6 levels where the "1% stacking fire bebuff" was active. On both characters I had an anima power (stacking to various degrees) that gave me health back as soon as I attacked a new enemy. (It also worked on pots, which might be a bug). So, as I was losing 5% health every X seconds, guess who was healing herself just by multi-shotting or Holy Novaing a new group? Yeah. As long as I was playing normally, the torment was a complete non-issue and it did not make me feel like I had to "rush". What it did do was make me feel like "Welp, I better not kill a bunch of shit and then go AFK for 20 minutes to make a sandwich and a cup of coffee cause I might cuck myself".

Also, my Hpriest absolutely wrecked (for those of you who like to play healer in all content). Unlike islands or visions where soloing/going off on your own is a chore, doing Torghast as a Holy Priest with anima powers was genuinely much more fun than those two other pieces of content. I got an ability that gave me a chance to stun enemies with the magnificence of the Light and they cowered in fear for like 5 seconds. Very fun ability when coupled with Holy Nova and then mind sear (returning to your kit in SL).

Cool now say that you didn't find those powers, since they're random that's an easy assumption to make. And that you didn't bring a healer with you. Now you're losing health and have no way to heal it. What do you do?

[Lahis]

Now you're losing health and have no way to heal it. What do you do?

Finish the floor in 90 seconds?`

"It is not a time limit guys!!"

[Thestrawman]

Finish the floor in 90 seconds?`

"It is not a time limit guys!!"

That's without taking damage from any other mobs as well.

[Lahis]

That's without taking damage from any other mobs as well.

Hey I gave you 10% of HP worth of mob damage :P

[Marc7]

Bellular and Preach are the worst culprits for just making content that they think fits the current narrative the best - in Legion, Preach made rage videos about not getting the "right" legendaries on his mage, then when Azerite came out in BFA he said "oh legendaries were great from the very beginning, I loved getting sephuz first on my mage because i could play around it". In 8.3 Preach made a video every day on every different character and spec and couldn't stop raving about how good the game was. Bellular loved WoW so much he wanted to make a complete fucking narrative overhaul and organise voice lines for every single quest - then he saw that general perception of BFA was negative and he'd make more money fanning the flames so all of a sudden WoW is garbage..

I mean, a lot of what you say here is simply wrong. Preach made not a single class video in 8.3, and you can go check that out on his channel if you doubt me, it's public you know.

When it comes to legion legendaries he has, as many others have, consistently said that the random acquisition of them was not good. What you are referring to I guess is him saying that people are retrospectively blowing it out of proportion. He is also demonetized on youtube, so there's almost no incentive for him to chase clicks.

Just search Preach's name on this very forum and look at the endless barrage of hateposts he was getting during BfA alpha because he thought classes in BfA played badly and because he didn't think that the Azerite system was going to work. Criticisms that are widely accepted as accurate now.

Bellular on the other hand does chase clicks and I do think that his opinions sometimes sway with the general consensus of the community, which does make it seem a bit fake. I still enjoy most of Bellular's videos even though I can barely make myself click on them usually thanks to the clickbait thumbnails and titles.

Bellular quit the overhaul project way before BfA because Blizzard issued a cease-and-desist on him and his team.

[THEORACLE64]

I for one think a lot of the design decisions in shadow lands have been great so far, yes there are a few hiccups here and there, but overall some of the shit youtubers say in regards to game design, Bellular for example, does not reflect my opinion in the slightest.

An example of this is the latest video where he comments about the changes to torghast.

In my opinion, I think it's a good thing to feel that tension ramp up as you climb the tower, and these "torments" sound like a great idea. Watching the difficulty of Torghast lately, this content will get boring FAST (again my opinion) if there is no sense of danger or pressure. Now, you may not agree, and I'm not trying to get into an argument as to what is the correct course to fix some of these issues are, I am only trying to shed light on the fact that there may be players with differing opinions.

Back on my main point, a lot of these youtubers (Bellular, Kalani, Preach, Asmogold and whoever) really have to watch how they talk when giving feedback and stop using phrases like "The players want this , People are saying this", sorry but you don't know me and you don't know how I enjoy WOW.

DO NOT speak for me in regards to game design. Give your opinion , that's fine, but stop talking like its fact.


Take care.

What the fuck is this post that's kind of a given. It's always their opinion, even if they're saying "the players" (because it's just their view of what they think the players want). Stop acting like such a fucking child.

[HateTrain]

Most YT WoW related content/streamers are worthless to me unless its/they are discussing lore. Then I'll watch/listen.

[kaminaris]

How can "we all know this" when the majority like his views and you don't speak for anyone except yourself?

- - - Updated - - -



Do you live on the same planet as everyone else? Where do you get this from? How you watched them for more than 2 weeks?

Bellular is the most positive out there, while Preach is somewhere in the middle.

Oh the irony.

Newsflash for anyone who thinks those youtubers are near being voice of majority.
Vast majority of WoW players don't watch youtubers, at least not those wow related.

For example Bellular videos with 200-100k views translates into a maximum of 100-50k unique viewers.
And there is also a portion that didn't even watch those movies entirely, hard to estimate but safe to say less than half of views.
100-50k is roughly ~2% of entire global wow playerbase, at best.

And yes those youtubers often try to push out their opinions as voice of entire playerbase so I just don't watch them.

[cparle87]

I agree that there should be a "pressure mechanic" and I fall firmly in the no timer camp (I think visions have been screwed up by the timer, the difficulty should be what pushes you out, not a timer.
But yeah, I think Blizz have an idea on what a torment should be, and its not an arbitrary timer.

So what would you suggest for visions? No passive mana drain? You can stay in there forever as long as you don't die physically or have your sanity drained by standing in stuff you shouldn't? It would also kind of ruin the progression of the visions. How you go from barely handling the first boss to being able to handle one middle area to both, to a tough area, etc. That would remove whatever "pressure mechanic" the visions possess.

[iamthedevil]

Most youtube/twitch people have their head up their ass and are only trying to make money. They are the politicians of wow except they have no power. Don't listen to talking heads... unless they are the Talking Heads.

[TorAndre]

Oh the irony.

Newsflash for anyone who thinks those youtubers are near being voice of majority.
Vast majority of WoW players don't watch youtubers, at least not those wow related.

For example Bellular videos with 200-100k views translates into a maximum of 100-50k unique viewers.
And there is also a portion that didn't even watch those movies entirely, hard to estimate but safe to say less than half of views.
100-50k is roughly ~2% of entire global wow playerbase, at best.

And yes those youtubers often try to push out their opinions as voice of entire playerbase so I just don't watch them.

I don't know if this is a critique of my points because I don't disagree with anything you stated and I don’t believe anything you seem to accuse me of.

I don't believe any youtuber speaks for any majority. I believe that the majority just play the game and enjoy it.

When I said "majority" it was in relation to the community who invest extra time in watching most of the content out there.

[Relapses]

You're allowed to enjoy a shittier version of Torghast if you want but if Tornents go live in their current iteration I can only see one of two outcomes playing out:

1.) Blizzard tells us to suck it up princess and we deal with the god awful meta and merciless whims of RNG. Players will constantly whine about the perfect opportunity Blizzard carelessly wasted because they "ignore feedback."

2.) It goes live like this and players tolerate it. Blizzard eventually gives in and removes Torments halfway through the expansion and half the playerbase gloats about how they were right all along and Blizzard almost carelessly wasted a great opportunity because they "ignore feedback."

The better solution is the one they have seen the whole time: Stop giving a shit about how people play the game and instead focus on making the feature more fun and interesting. Bandaids for imaginary problems are part of the reason modern WoW is so reviled. Just let it go. Fuck.

[matrix123mko]

Did he say "all the players want this and that" or "I speak for all the players"? If not, this thread is stupid.

I am pretty sure this is what Asmongold says.

[Big Thanks]

I am pretty sure this is what Asmongold says.

And bellular says "most people" all the time.

- - - Updated - - -

The better solution is the one they have seen the whole time: Stop giving a shit about how people play the game and instead focus on making the feature more fun and interesting. Bandaids for imaginary problems are part of the reason modern WoW is so reviled. Just let it go. Fuck.

They are not "bandaids"
They are disguised as bandaids but they are not actually.

Blizzard only needs 1 million people to buy an expansion for 40 dollars and sub for a couple days/months to pay the bills and make profit.

This bandaids are not coincidences...they know full well what they are doing.
It starts as RNG...and it goes into a non-RNG-timegate

Meanwhile you stay subbed for more than enough time to pay the bills for the next expansion.

1.5 years later they even abandon game development (aka 8.3) because they already made more than enough money
endless cycle