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  1. #21
    Destroying Sylvanas' lanthern, sentencing Forsaken to slow, painful death. Oops, that was not ordered by Golden Child.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    note: "legally" implies an organization knowingly or sanctioning something evulz. So, say, Thrall as the boss tells Sylvanas to NOT do this thing but she does so to him not knowing, that's not really the Horde's thing. Garrosh and Theramore bombing? That was 100% legal and EVUL.

    So with that in mind, what is the most HORRIFIC thing the Alliance has done with an A-Okay from its governments?
    I see what you mean here. Anduin does a great job not allowing any crimes, so all heinous acts of Alliance are illegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    letting the horde scum live after anihilating them 3 times r was it 4?you tend to lose count
    It is Alliance's problem that they didn't stop harassing Horde after first time.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  2. #22
    Scamming a bunch of stonemasons into rebuilding the main capital of the faction without pay is pretty high up there.

  3. #23
    Not ending the Horde when they had the chance.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  4. #24
    Depends on what you mean by "legally", because there's no external reference frame. Anything the sovereign decides would almost by definition be legal, because there is no system of laws to say otherwise or hold them accountable.

    I suppose the actions that would be disqualified would be something that was against the express command of the sovereign, but "the Alliance" is historically diverse. Kul Tiras was part of the Alliance of Lordaeron during the Second and Third Wars, for example, but it's a bit iffy to say where they stood afterwards - particularly during Admiral Proudmoore's little genocidal streak.

    Not to mention that while the Alliance is a coalition with at least some kind of framework, there's little formality to define what's legal or illegal for the constituent kingdoms.

  5. #25
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    Orc Internment Camps, or Massacre of Tamp Taurajo
    Camp Taurajo is fair, but the internment camps, other than not having been done by the current Alliance (pre-Warcraft 3 and WoW Alliance are not the same), can essentially only be blamed on the Orcs. We're talking about a group that had, at this point, committed two, unprovoked genocides against the Humans, Dwarves, and Gnomes.

    "Things were OK while we were marauding, torturing and killing innocents, and willingly imbibing demon blood to make ourselves stronger, but you've gone too far by confining us to these camps. It is unjust punishment and we will continue to cry about how the guards, whose families and friends we killed and previous livelihoods we destroyed, refuse to treat us with the respect we believe we deserve." - Basically all Orcs
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  6. #26
    Shot and sank numerous goblin ships fleeing from Kezan. The Purge of Dalaran. The burning of Camp Taurajo.

    Just to name a few.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    well even that can be argued that it was all a trick by onyxia ploting against them,its not like baby anduin or bolvar decided to be dicks and not pay them
    That happened before Varian went missing, that one was on him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    Camp Taurajo is fair, but the internment camps, other than not having been done by the current Alliance (pre-Warcraft 3 and WoW Alliance are not the same)
    Shaw considers the modern Horde, like Baine and Thrall, responsible for Llane Wrynn's death.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  8. #28
    Lol now I wonder how long a Horde version of this thread would be.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    Camp Taurajo is fair, but the internment camps, other than not having been done by the current Alliance (pre-Warcraft 3 and WoW Alliance are not the same), can essentially only be blamed on the Orcs. We're talking about a group that had, at this point, committed two, unprovoked genocides against the Humans, Dwarves, and Gnomes.

    "Things were OK while we were marauding, torturing and killing innocents, and willingly imbibing demon blood to make ourselves stronger, but you've gone too far by confining us to these camps. It is unjust punishment and we will continue to cry about how the guards, whose families and friends we killed and previous livelihoods we destroyed, refuse to treat us with the respect we believe we deserve." - Basically all Orcs
    So you get lied to by a master and told that a technologically superior race that your people already witnessed blowing to smithereens a race your people tried and failed to beat is out to annihilate you. Then you get told "Wait, there's still hope! Drink this stuff and you'll be strong enough to protect your people!" You drink, and get mind controlled into a violent murderous lunatic who's helpless to stop himself from annihilating entire peoples. You're beaten and locked away in a camp where the bloodlust finally burns out. Yeah, you're totally not a victim.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    Camp Taurajo is fair, but the internment camps, other than not having been done by the current Alliance (pre-Warcraft 3 and WoW Alliance are not the same), can essentially only be blamed on the Orcs. We're talking about a group that had, at this point, committed two, unprovoked genocides against the Humans, Dwarves, and Gnomes.

    "Things were OK while we were marauding, torturing and killing innocents, and willingly imbibing demon blood to make ourselves stronger, but you've gone too far by confining us to these camps. It is unjust punishment and we will continue to cry about how the guards, whose families and friends we killed and previous livelihoods we destroyed, refuse to treat us with the respect we believe we deserve." - Basically all Orcs
    Not all orcs were part of the armies that went around murdering, but all orcs were put in internment camps. Especially the internment camps that Thrall helped liberate, the ones controlled by Blackmoore, were especially cruel and vile. During a time when Jaina and Arthas met as children, Jaina commented on the cruelty of the camps. It wasn't that just the orcs thought it was cruel, even a lot of humans found it in poor taste but they simply couldn't think of a better solution to the camps - and yet, the camps were still in such a state and the orcs were treated in such a way that it influenced characters like Jaina forever.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    Not all orcs were part of the armies that went around murdering, but all orcs were put in internment camps. Especially the internment camps that Thrall helped liberate, the ones controlled by Blackmoore, were especially cruel and vile. During a time when Jaina and Arthas met as children, Jaina commented on the cruelty of the camps. It wasn't that just the orcs thought it was cruel, even a lot of humans found it in poor taste but they simply couldn't think of a better solution to the camps - and yet, the camps were still in such a state and the orcs were treated in such a way that it influenced characters like Jaina forever.
    These characters would have bitched more if they just exterminated all the orcs.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  12. #32
    Dreadlord Kyux's Avatar
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    Can't really say any action is legal or illegal in WoW without knowing what their laws are. Also, assuming that the Alliance and Horde are separate "nations" they will have different laws. Different kingdoms (races) within each faction will have their own laws too. What might be legal for the Horde to do may be illegal for the Alliance. Also, how does the law work? I'm guessing they aren't representative democracies with legislation. The Horde seems like it might have a central ruler with total authority. I don't know.

    Short answer is: none of us can say something in WoW is illegal, and even if it is illegal to one group it won't be to another.

    Now, what was the 'worst' (measured however you want) thing the Alliance has done?
    I think probably killing Rastakhan, or Camp Taurajo. Hmm or one of the many insignificant quests where they ask you to kill innocent Horde members or creatures.
    Quote Originally Posted by Akhlys View Post
    Once upon a time, boats were full of leaks. Now, our leaks are full of boats.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    These characters would have bitched more if they just exterminated all the orcs.
    Characters like Jaina commented that at the very least the Orcs could have been treated better. It wasn't that imprisonment wasn't a bad or fitting punishment, it was how they were treated in confinement that was so terribly inhumane and disgusting.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    Characters like Jaina commented that at the very least the Orcs could have been treated better. It wasn't that imprisonment wasn't a bad or fitting punishment, it was how they were treated in confinement that was so terribly inhumane and disgusting.
    Jaina was a baby when the orcs committed genocide in Stormwind so her shock is hardly surprising. Go ask the farmer in Elwynn who lost his entire family to the orcs, I'm sure he'll tell you a different story.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  15. #35
    I thought murdering a bunch of unarmed orcs swimming to shore to surrender was pretty horrible. So did Taran Zhu. "You beasts! What sort of madness is this?"

  16. #36
    Alot of the Alliance War Crimes which id love to see them do more of are generally masked by it being a goody tooshoes faction these days, but most of its crimes were in the past.

    The Orc Interment Camps after WC2 were literally camps where Orc women and men were being used by human nobles as entertainment, yes, entertainment, the half-orcs dont just come from nowhere you know.

    They would also put orcs up against other horde races for amusement.

    In the troll wars the majority of the troll wars was 'started' by the High Elves encroaching upon Amani lands and invading their home without their blessing, the humans helped them conquer the native empire, but this was a bit more morally grey since the Amani were not exactly a good people to begin with.

    The Humans also neglected many of their own kingdoms multiple times, Gilneas isolated itself from the rest but thats hardly a crime, but Alterac literally betrayed the Alliance for a chance to conquer the other kingdoms by allowing the Horde to pass unhindered into Lordaeron.

    The Stromic were also utterly brutal and merciless to the Horde, especially Trolls who were butchered regularly. As for the Dwarves/Gnomes, their crime was mainly not to help the Humans during the first war and choose to consider it someone elses problem until it was theirs.

    Night Elves are also particularly savage animals when it comes to their gurrellia tactics, while we see them as a noble and proud race we are not told enough of the times they basically pin orcs to trees with arrows as a warning to their kin to stay the hell out of their forest.

    The most notable in game events are Camp Tauarjo which is barely an event, and Sky Admiral Rogers (Who really needs her own expansion/char development/model and story) killing Hordies that were unarmed during Pandaria trying to swim ashore, she also tried to advocate using the Sha as a weapon during the war in Pandaria and Genn sort of agreed.

    Jaina's massacre of the blood elves does not count because she as a largely neutral party *until* then, which is why I consider Jaina's actions more of an "individual" war crime than a warcrime of the Alliance itself, whlie the Alliance did use it to their advantage, Jaina was never really involved until that point.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Budong View Post
    I thought murdering a bunch of unarmed orcs swimming to shore to surrender was pretty horrible. So did Taran Zhu. "You beasts! What sort of madness is this?"
    Those orcs never surrendered nor gave any indication that they would. And when your war cry is litteraly Victory or Death and that you lose... well, you die.

    But I'd say that for the WoW Alliance it'd be either Varian invading another sovereign Alliance country (Ironforge) or the Purge of Dalaran. While I support the latter it is not some pristine operation (but then again, you don't remove terrorists, their enablers and supporters with grace usually) for instance.

    Stormheim may also be there if you consider that trying to destroy undead abominations known to slaugther the livings is evil.

  18. #38
    Not ending the Horde. As others mentioned. Lots of very hard buttpulling in this thread though, but that was the intention wasn't it?
    Last edited by Trumpcat; 2020-05-19 at 08:25 AM.

  19. #39
    The Lightbringer Dalheim's Avatar
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    Wiping out a huge chunk of Forest trolls during the Troll Wars.

    Although that was the Alliance between High elves and Humans. *shrug*

  20. #40
    The Alliance hasnt done really evil things which the government turned a blind eye. Camp turajo happend cuz one ranking officer was racist and the horde actually killed the high ranking officer who was the only one at that place making sure turajo wasnt sacked. The internment camps werent really evil, yes the treatment were bad, but what would you do against a specie that basically slaughtered almost the entire humanity. Would you just give them a normal prison? No, cuz that would cause an internal strive within the Alliance that the orcs need to be punished.

    Every single Alliance action is justifiable, hordes not so much. After lich king, horde got Azshara but still invaded Ashenvale and started killing everyone. Why would you even attack if you got a zone that`s a really good price. Then there is the time where horde soldiers attacked the Alliance from behind and called it glorious. The Alliance at the time were fighting the scourge, heck even garrosh is glad about it, a high ranking officer. Then there is garrosh who started destroying his own horde. Sylvanis allowing the invasion in kul tiras where people get spiked against walls and such. Sylvanis tortures infront of everyone and all find it okay cuz she got the support of the people, she burnes Teldrassil and people of horde celebrate it, and i can go on and on.

    I havent forgotten the bombing of theramore, but that wasnt evil it was strategic. Theramore was there for a long time and was expanding, this is an agressive act. What did garrosh? He let information get out that he would attack theramore so that civillians wouldnt be there and then bombed it.

    Cataclysme garrosh was in my opinion the best one, but in MoP they just ruined him. In cataclysme you can see that he condemns the bombing of a druidisme academy and kills the general for it.

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