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  1. #141
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    And two, no, still ceases to be a tinker.
    What's your definition of a Tinker?

    Can just be a Mech Pilot because all you are doing is one item that producing everything ... that thing you are describing doesn't have to be a Tinker. Yes, he could have made it ... but he could have bought it or was given it.
    Where exactly can you buy pocket factories in WoW? Further, where can you buy a mech with a factory installed within it? Wouldn't a more likely scenario be that the Tinker just built it himself, since Pocket Factory and mechs are two of the original Tinker abilities from WC3?

  2. #142
    Tortollan are technically bards.


    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    What's your definition of a Tinker?



    Where exactly can you buy pocket factories in WoW? Further, where can you buy a mech with a factory installed within it? Wouldn't a more likely scenario be that the Tinker just built it himself, since Pocket Factory and mechs are two of the original Tinker abilities from WC3?
    The robo goblin is not even close to a mech. Its a tank. Would you call a helicopter an airplane? And stop derailing threads and making them about tinkers. I'm reporting you.

  3. #143
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    The robo goblin is not even close to a mech. Its a tank. Would you call a helicopter an airplane?
    Why because it has treads?

    Plenty of mechs have treads;



    I wasn't aware that tanks had a claw and a hammer.

    And stop derailing threads and making them about tinkers. I'm reporting you.
    So you're going to ask me about Tinkers then report me for responding to it? Nice.

  4. #144
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderZebra View Post
    Fair i was wrong there are a few. But compared to the other added classes (even monks are an extension of brewmasters) there is certainly less presedent of them as a combat viable class.
    It's arguable. The Warcraft 3 Pandaren Brewmaster hero didn't even exist within the WoW game until Mists of Pandaria. The only mention of him was from a side-quest that starts when you find a keg in the middle of the nowhere in the Barrens. Before the Barrens was split in two. Way back when quest-starting world objects did not have a '!' floating above them and did not show on the minimap.

    And even then, all that was said about Chen was about his love and knowledge of beer. Nothing whatsoever about his martial prowess.

    Going by that, bards have more "precedent" than the current monk class.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  5. #145
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    What's your definition of a Tinker?



    Where exactly can you buy pocket factories in WoW? Further, where can you buy a mech with a factory installed within it? Wouldn't a more likely scenario be that the Tinker just built it himself, since Pocket Factory and mechs are two of the original Tinker abilities from WC3?
    ... I give up, there is no reasoning with you because either you take things 100% literal or are too off the wall
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Why because it has treads?

    Plenty of mechs have treads;



    I wasn't aware that tanks had a claw and a hammer.
    What mech in WoW has tank treads? And claw and hammer are parts of their claw pack. And notice how that mech has a "head" while robo goblin doesnt? If Blizzard wanted tinkers they would have given them the clawpack and made "mechs" like thier robo goblin tank form and yet they didnt. Anyways this is my only response to you in this thread about tinkers. Please use an actual tinker thread instead of derailing every other thread and its mother.

  7. #147
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    What mech in WoW has tank treads? And claw and hammer are parts of their claw pack. And notice how that mech has a "head" while robo goblin doesnt? If Blizzard wanted tinkers they would have given them the clawpack and made "mechs" like thier robo goblin tank form and yet they didnt. Anyways this is my only response to you in this thread about tinkers. Please use an actual tinker thread instead of derailing every other thread and its mother.
    Nice goalpost move. We were talking about WC3 not WoW. Also the majority of Goblin and Gnome mechs in WoW have open cockpits where the pilot is visible.

    And yes, this is also my only response to you in this thread about Tinkers. If you try to respond about Tinkers again, I'll have no choice but to report you for trying to derail the thread further.

  8. #148
    It's interesting that BFA had a couple potential Bard spec inspirations in it who knows maybe they are seeding the ideas for an actual class.

    1. Sirens are the original mind control singers and could make a pretty unique spec.

    2. Tortollan are all about gathering stories and telling them. I could see several different specs and mechanics based around them. You could have stances based on what tale you tell and unique skills based on the story. You could also have a summoning spec where they pull stuff out of the stories which already happens a few times in wow. etc..

    Then you got the musician style bards like ETC you could also base a spec off of.


    I think its possible they are trying to build up more class ideas so they can ignore the rest of the W3 hero units. They had the perfect opportunity to add one that fit in bfa and in shadowlands but didn't.
    Last edited by qwerty123456; 2020-05-19 at 07:16 PM.

  9. #149
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    It's interesting that BFA had a couple potential Bard spec inspirations in it who knows maybe they are seeding the ideas for an actual class.

    1. Sirens are the original mind control singers and could make a pretty unique spec.

    2. Tortollan are all about gathering stories and telling them. I could see several different specs and mechanics based around them. You could have stances based on what tale you tell and unique skills based on the story. You could also have a summoning spec where they pull stuff out of the stories which already happens a few times in wow. etc..

    Then you got the musician style bards like ETC you could also base a spec off of.


    I think its possible they are trying to build up more class ideas so they can ignore the rest of the W3 hero units. They had the perfect opportunity to add one that fit in bfa and in shadowlands but didn't.
    While I have no proof, I think they considered Necromancer at some point for Shadowlands, but decided expanding Death Knight option was the better choice.

    ---

    BfA is a good place to start the idea of Bard, but Bard would be hard pressed imo to work into the story. Death Knights played a large role in Wrath, as did Demon Hunter. If Bard was added it is likely NOT a hero class, but a base class (which honestly with the rework is less of a barrier than it was).

    And I can see Bard potentially fitting into the game with any role. Yes, I could see a Bard tanking ... image a class that damages and taunts the boss while keeping themself up with other abilities that may mitigate damage. It is a long shot, but it is possible.

    I think Bard is something that would add the most to the game.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  10. #150
    Since tinkers are simply a profession that we learned in Mechagon (Junkyard Tinkering), and since the Blizz devs are dead-set on making Unholy into a true necromancer, that leaves bards as the most appealing potential new class!

  11. #151
    Epic! Highelf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderZebra View Post
    Ive rather have an engineer in a fight then a musician
    Not me. As long as he knows my "get amped" play list.
    “I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born.”
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  12. #152
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    But both necromancers AND death knights exist in WoW.
    I meant as playable classes.

    "Being a tribute" or "being a ghost" don't mean anything, and certainly aren't a disqualifier by any metric. Both are characters who exist within the lore. And as for a "bevy of bards", again, it doesn't mean anything, considering the only character in the Warcraft franchise used for the development of the monk class was a character that did not exist in the World of Warcraft game whatsoever save for a single, passable mention in a hidden quest.
    Chen came from a race known to be monks and participated in the founding of Durotar. I straight-forgot that Russel Brower even existed as an NPC and Hearthsinger Forresten is a random ghost you get the flute toy from.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  13. #153
    None of them are likely to happen.

    Tinkers just aren't popular enough. especially since they will mostly likely only be available for gnomes, goblins, dwarves etc. if Blizzards wants to stay true to the lore.
    Bards not only don't exist in the lore, well aside from just singers who sing songs and are useless in combat but would also be very unpopular and lack the "cool" factor like the other new classes.
    Necromancers might have been viable but since they aren't happening in Shadowlands and were unlikely to get another undead themed expansion any time soon. again, doubt they'll happen. Not to mention lorewise they're all evil and there are no "good" necromancers.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You'd be wrong.


    The fact you can fight him means a lot. Because it gives us a rough idea of what the class would be: likely leather, according to his looks, with the possibility of being mail; he uses a bow; and his spells can inflict status effects.

    And then we have Russell Brower, another bard, who, with his music, can heal you over time, and can cast frost spells.


    This is such narrow thinking that it borders on being dishonest, considering the bard concept can easily be made to fit the tank/healer/dps "holy trinity" we have here in WoW.


    I do. Which is why I want necromancers and bards.
    I could’ve sworn we fought him on dead side but it’s been over a decade since I went in there so my bad. My point stands, bard is more of a profession in Warcraft. They are entertainers which any class can pick up. There’s nothing combat oriented about bards (in Warcraft) I personally always considered Lorewalker cho to be bard. He may not sing but regaled with epic tails which is another facet of bards.

    So if blizzard were to make bard a secondary profession that could possibly learn new dances exclusive to those who have it trained, new emotes in the forms of songs and banters I would be absolutely stoked. And the RP crowd would be as well I imagine. Combat bard isn’t a Warcraft thing nor does it need to be.

    Definitely on board for necromancer tho.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruargh
    I'm baffled that something this simple can be so hard for some people... I guess we can't blame blizzard for dumbing down the game any longer, because apparently it very much needed :

  15. #155
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I meant as playable classes.
    That's not really an argument, because, at one point, neither existed, so, by that logic, Blizzard would just make one, or the other. Instead, they worked on both.

    Chen came from a race known to be monks and participated in the founding of Durotar.
    Chen Stormstout came from an April Fools joke. And his race was not known to be monks.

    I straight-forgot that Russel Brower even existed as an NPC and Hearthsinger Forresten is a random ghost you get the flute toy from.
    So what? Many people forgot Chen existed, or even that pandaren were a thing, until MoP came along. Because neither existed in the WoW game whatsoever, save for one single, passable, almost hidden mention in one single side-quest.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by alt-ithist View Post
    I could’ve sworn we fought him on dead side but it’s been over a decade since I went in there so my bad. My point stands, bard is more of a profession in Warcraft. They are entertainers which any class can pick up. There’s nothing combat oriented about bards (in Warcraft) I personally always considered Lorewalker cho to be bard. He may not sing but regaled with epic tails which is another facet of bards.
    Bards cannot be a profession in WoW because bards do not craft anything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Amarys View Post
    Bards not only don't exist in the lore
    Bards do exist in the lore. That's a fact.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    That's not really an argument, because, at one point, neither existed, so, by that logic, Blizzard would just make one, or the other. Instead, they worked on both.


    Chen Stormstout came from an April Fools joke. And his race was not known to be monks.


    So what? Many people forgot Chen existed, or even that pandaren were a thing, until MoP came along. Because neither existed in the WoW game whatsoever, save for one single, passable, almost hidden mention in one single side-quest.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Bards cannot be a profession in WoW because bards do not craft anything.
    Archeology doesn’t craft anything. Neither do herbalist. Proffesions aren’t just limited to making things

    And we both know I explained further in my post how bard as a profession could work and still be in line with their Warcraft identity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruargh
    I'm baffled that something this simple can be so hard for some people... I guess we can't blame blizzard for dumbing down the game any longer, because apparently it very much needed :

  17. #157
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alt-ithist View Post
    Archeology doesn’t craft anything. Neither do herbalist. Proffesions aren’t just limited to making things
    Archaeology does craft stuff. And Herbalism is a "gathering" profession. What would the Bard, as a profession, "gather"?

    And we both know I explained further in my post how bard as a profession could work and still be in line with their Warcraft identity.
    It doesn't, because bards, as a concept, do not craft anything. Or gather, for that matter. That's like saying warriors could work as a profession, too.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    As a class currently? No.

    But there are lute playing NPCs in some inns, and magic is a thing. So if you can channel magic through swords, staves and wands, why not through an instrument as well?
    So a mage with a lute as their main hand? Sure.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Archaeology does craft stuff. And Herbalism is a "gathering" profession. What would the Bard, as a profession, "gather"?


    It doesn't, because bards, as a concept, do not craft anything. Or gather, for that matter. That's like saying warriors could work as a profession, too.
    Last time I check none of those are made by the archeologist. They are discovered randomly from artifacts they dug up. If it’s so important for you to have them manufacture something. Then they can manufacture music sheets that allow others to sing the encoded song with a durability. They could create musical instruments That could be used by others.

    I fail how people keep comparing warrior with bards. A warriors job definition is to fight and or protect by fighting. A bards job definition is to entertain. They are not comparable in anyway and people trying to lump them together isn’t going to change that.

    Typing with my phone so it’s annoying to spell check what I write but I’m sure you get my point.

    Also would like to point in Warcraft there is no sound magic akin to what bard is suppose to be. The closest to sound magic would be Murmur but if you have someone taping into his energies it would only be raw destructive power. In essence you would be a sound mage or a sound shaman, not a bard.

    To be clear, I don’t hate the bard concept, I generally play bards in games that have them and enjoy them immensely. Warcraft bard concept doesn’t fit that trope and ass pulling it would be annoying. WoW has far too many ass pulls already for my taste
    Last edited by alt-ithist; 2020-05-20 at 12:15 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruargh
    I'm baffled that something this simple can be so hard for some people... I guess we can't blame blizzard for dumbing down the game any longer, because apparently it very much needed :

  20. #160
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alt-ithist View Post
    To be clear, I don’t hate the bard concept, I generally play bards in games that have them and enjoy them immensely. Warcraft bard concept doesn’t fit that trope and ass pulling it would be annoying. WoW has far too many ass pulls already for my taste
    Wow has had ass pulls since Vanilla... it is nothing new. Just saying, if ass pulls bother you, I don't see how you lasted very long.

    As for the rest, people compare Wow's warriors to Barbarians but they aren't really as Barbarians. Expecting Bard to fit one narrow viewpoint is not something WoW does. There is TONS of Sound based magics in WoW ... it is just Sound isn't a school of magic. There are Hymns, and songs that exist in lore.

    As for them being "sound mages" ... well, I could state that we don't really have Warlock's in WoW as playable ... we have Fel mages that call themselves Warlocks.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

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