Except not only was Varian aware of the fact that Wrathgate was performed by traitors to the Horde, with that awareness being a key motive for him going to Undercity in the first place, but his declaration of war had nothing to do with the Forsaken and everything to do with his personal views on the Orcs. The "biggest" reference to the Forsaken in his whole speech was a passing remark about Sylvanas being a witch. And the omniscient narration of the post-Cata Forsaken intro outright says the still-Horde Forsaken were wrongly suspected of involvement in the Wrathgate. Also, what Garrosh's invasion fleet? Garrosh was using his fleet to blockade Kalimdor. Besides, at best you can separate the war into pre-Cata and post-Cata periods as there was a ceasefire at the end of WotLK. Trying to make MoP into a separate bit is rather forced.
At that time Helya was pretty much still a nobody to both factions.
Probably neglecting the human towns outside of Stormwind and then forcibly putting down the peasant revolts when they get justifiably mad.
Other than that, it's like... pressing Pandaren into forced labor in Emerald Forest.
If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.
Daelin's evil acts are far worse than most other characters in the series. Only maybe Sylvanas could compare to how terrible Daelin was.
What damage control? We only ever got to fight Helya because of our temporary team-up with Odyn. That happened at the end of Stormheim. You know, after Sylvanas' deal with Helya. The players literally heard about her for the first time in the same questline in which they saw Sylvanas chatting with her. But alright.
Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/
Not taking the time to make multiple quotes so imma just number them:
1. When the High Elves were getting attacked by people who potentially are conspirators of course they are going to fight back. And if you want to get technical any deaths are on Aethas's has as he could have turned himself in and told the truth. He let the "purge" happen because he was a cowered and was hoping he could keep his position.
2. Aethas is a powerful mage in a city full a super mages. If he was really scared shitless of Garrosh he could have went to the council and let them know he needed to be stopped then all the mages could have either portaled around grabbing Blood Elves and protecting them or a thousand other possibilities. And if he knew that Garrosh was a monster willing to wipe out the blood elves as a fuck you to Aethas then what did he plan on doing once the Alliance was wiped out? How on earth could he protect the Blood Elves once Garrosh had no more enemies to kill as was bored?
3. Yes Zul did but how on earth would the Alliance know that? All they knew is that the Zandalari who used to work with them a bit attacked them and then had the horde staying in their throne room. Lorewise did the Alliance find out about Zul? And it doesn't even matter as how they gonna know when he became a traitor.
4. We have no idea if humans rape as there is no lore that has ever shown one to. We do know harpies, orcs, ogres, and some demons do though. And I wasn't defending Aedelas he was a drunk piece of crap whose entire life had his dad's betrayal hanging over his head. And yes its probably true that he raped Taretha but it's never stated that it actually was people have rough sex all the time, people also marry, fuck, etc people they don't like for various reasons.
5. What does anything you said have to do with worrying about being exterminated by the Horde? Also how many cities and races did the legion and scourge wipe out or nearly wipe out in those attacks? The Horde has been the most successful villains in the last 15 years destroying multiple cities in Teldrassil, all along the west coast of Kalimdor, one or two on Kul Tiras, and nearly wiping out the night elves.
In the real world people. But we are talking about Azeroth were magic exists. Being unable to use magic would likely be considered a primitive lifeform. And to a Titan they probably see most if all life as primitive lifeforms.
Not relevant? You were crying that the elves and Humans attacked trolls and stole their land and I showed you the trolls did the exact same thing actually probably worse as they were cannibals and took a fuck ton more land.
Again Dalaran didn't try and exterminate and the sunreavers chose to side with a faction that was ok with wiping out people. You really think in an emergency situation they would just let everyone be?
See my reply to Mehrunes for the rest of the Dalaran stuff.
What? no I'm not mad she is powerful, I'm mad that had to make Rastakhan inept and kill him off for a new character. Rastakhan set up the Horde right next to his treasure room, let them set up a fuckload of portals all in a chokepoint with the only access to his throne he was either asking to be robbed, killed, kidnapped, and or ransomed. Talanji was pretty buddy-buddy with Zul in the Stormwind escape and shit and why on earth were they together in the first place? From that scene alone it would have been better if Zul and Talanji both were betraying Rastakhan and a younger sister and the horde player find out and stop them.
You mean chasing escaped monsters that slaughtered a garrison, leveled buildings, and stole ships to escape, possibly to rebuild their strength and come back to finish what they started under Blackhand and Orgrim?
Portraying him as flat out evil is ignoring the character's motivations entirely.
Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/
I understand why you would want to twist the meaning of that proverb, so that it fits your narrative. But damn, to do it online where people aren't worried about calling you out on your dumbass comments? There's a very thin line between brave and stupid, and you're riding that shit like it's your job.
[Infraction]
Last edited by Rozz; 2020-05-20 at 07:20 PM. Reason: Forbidden Topics
I think this needs a separate thread, but... Jaina should be held accountable for Daelin Proudmoore
Jaina had all the time to go back to Kul Tiras or at least send some messengers to the Kul Tiras proper and tell them that the Thrall's Horde is no longer the same as the Old Horde. Then she would say that they were corrupted by demons to make them bloodthirsty and that with the Alliance and Horde working together with the Night Elves, the Horde is no longer bound by the demons and so they are no longer the same as before. Signed with each representative/witness of each faction to the Kalimdor Brigades for credibility (High Elf, Wildhammer, Bronzebeard, Lordaeronian, Gilnean, Stromic, Kul Tiran, Silver Hand, Dalaranian, and Kirin Tor). Then she would also have proposed a way for the Thrall's Horde to make amends with the Kul Tirans for peace and cooperation for a better future. She would've either used some airships or conjure a portal to Boralus.Sylvanas Windrunner: The Legion was defeated months ago. How could they not know?
tl;dr: Jaina had time to prevent Kul Tirans' attack in Durotar but she didn't.
The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!
I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.
His declaration of war explicitly talks about how the forsaken murdered Bolvar, He also states prior to entering the undercity the primary purpose of the attack is to get justice for the deaths at the wrath gate. His prejudice (well it's not really prejudice given his experiences as both a child and a gladiator, his bias is probably better) against orcs is obviously a factor (and probably a greater point by the writers about some vague antiwar theme).
Your post reads like he was just going for a stroll one day randomly saw thrall and dropped his spaghetti. He was only in the undercity because his prime minister was assassinated (and a large minority of his army killed) and he only lost his shit because he saw the forsaken experiments (which we know are sanctioned and indeed ordered by Sylvanas) and saw the horde wasn't controlling them.
His motivations are immaterial anyway since what makes a war offensive or defensive is the military situation not who declares war.
Garrosh literally tells Nazgrim to "Redirect the invasion fleet" and to "Storm the shore and pain the new continent red". Further referring to a part of a conflict as the 'mop leg' is not inaccurate or even vaguely inappropriate it's perfectly normal to refer to different sections of once ongoing conflict by different names, especially if they take place at certain times and in different theatres.
This thread appears to be hopelessly derailed and will now be closed.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead