1. #3301
    Honestly, people need to stop laying all the blame on Nomura just because it's the popular thing to do. I'd like to remind everyone that Motomu Toriyama was one of the directors as well. For those who don't know he directed the Final Fantasy 13 trilogy, you know those games that were literally all about defying fate.

    The ghosts were put in because they needed a central plot that could tie into the events of the game without drastically altering the existing story and be resolved by the end to allow for a more complete experience. Otherwise, the game just ends after the highway chase with a big "to be continued" and that wouldn't have been a very satisfying conclusion.
    Last edited by everydaygamer; 2020-05-19 at 09:46 PM.

  2. #3302
    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    Honestly, people need to stop laying all the blame on Nomura just because it's the popular thing to do. I'd like to remind everyone that Motomu Toriyama was one of the directors as well. For those who don't know he directed the Final Fantasy 13 trilogy, you know those games that were literally all about defying fate.

    The ghosts were put in because they needed a central plot that could tie into the events of the game without drastically altering the existing story and be resolved by the end to allow for a more complete experience. Otherwise, the game just ends after the highway chase with a big "to be continued" and that wouldn't have been a very satisfying conclusion.
    Funny thing is the last two bosses of the game were put in place by Square Enix before Nomura even knew he was directing. Also, this is the same Nomura that grounded the original FF7. Kitase basically was going to use the return to Midgar as a murder fest in the original FF7 which Nomura had to put his foot down on because the game was based on his story.

    Much what was added (outside the arbiters of fate) was likely more in the Story he and Sakaguchi wrote that Kitase and Nojima had the game based on. Arbiters and everything else (that 5% of crazy) is there to show Sephiroth in the game is post AC Sephiroth (The one wing, his focus on Cloud when he didn't know cloud at the first meeting in the original, added with the short stories and other things from the original that states the lifestream isn't stuck in time). Aerith personality change is likely post AC Aerith merging with past Aerith (dream sequence if you go Aerith path was likely future Aerith reaching out to Cloud personally).

  3. #3303
    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    The ghosts were put in because they needed a central plot that could tie into the events of the game without drastically altering the existing story and be resolved by the end to allow for a more complete experience. Otherwise, the game just ends after the highway chase with a big "to be continued" and that wouldn't have been a very satisfying conclusion.
    The ghosts didn't make Sephiroth appear there, they are actively trying to do the opposite. They are ineffectual and pointless. The prime example is Jesse. She has to hurt her leg so Cloud can go on the mission. The entire sequence before the one where time jannies show up to hurt her leg ends with her jumping off the plate with a parachute and when you land Wedge says, to paraphrase, "maybe they had a rough landing and got hurt, we need to check up on them" and its entirely reasonable and logical to go "okay, we had the extended stuff, she hurt her leg on the landing, that ties up neat and clean. But we get the really rough floating waterbed cloaks fight instead.

    It all feels inserted late in development and tonally dissonant from the rest. Like in the first two hours anyone who played the original should be going "hang on, this is a sequel not a remake, this is pulling an Eva 2.0!" and they really do feel like the sort of thing Nomura famously inserts in late development stage changes. I fully understand there is also people that downright bristle at the idea of Nomura being the source of any problems and it could never, ever be the guy whos entire aesthetic that matches the visuals, tone and theming of the Whispers behind their insertion but sometimes thats exactly what it is and its a swing and a miss.

  4. #3304
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    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    The ghosts didn't make Sephiroth appear there, they are actively trying to do the opposite. They are ineffectual and pointless. The prime example is Jesse. She has to hurt her leg so Cloud can go on the mission. The entire sequence before the one where time jannies show up to hurt her leg ends with her jumping off the plate with a parachute and when you land Wedge says, to paraphrase, "maybe they had a rough landing and got hurt, we need to check up on them" and its entirely reasonable and logical to go "okay, we had the extended stuff, she hurt her leg on the landing, that ties up neat and clean. But we get the really rough floating waterbed cloaks fight instead.

    It all feels inserted late in development and tonally dissonant from the rest. Like in the first two hours anyone who played the original should be going "hang on, this is a sequel not a remake, this is pulling an Eva 2.0!" and they really do feel like the sort of thing Nomura famously inserts in late development stage changes. I fully understand there is also people that downright bristle at the idea of Nomura being the source of any problems and it could never, ever be the guy whos entire aesthetic that matches the visuals, tone and theming of the Whispers behind their insertion but sometimes thats exactly what it is and its a swing and a miss.


    Another thing about Cloud personality in the original FF7 he was this mysterious not so talkative ex soldier (in this era now commonly known unfortunately I hate to use this term the edgy personality). And never actually open up to the others until really really later in the game.

  5. #3305
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    The ghosts didn't make Sephiroth appear there, they are actively trying to do the opposite. They are ineffectual and pointless. The prime example is Jesse. She has to hurt her leg so Cloud can go on the mission. The entire sequence before the one where time jannies show up to hurt her leg ends with her jumping off the plate with a parachute and when you land Wedge says, to paraphrase, "maybe they had a rough landing and got hurt, we need to check up on them" and its entirely reasonable and logical to go "okay, we had the extended stuff, she hurt her leg on the landing, that ties up neat and clean. But we get the really rough floating waterbed cloaks fight instead.
    In order to make Sephiroth a more active part of the Midgar segment, they introduced the idea that Sephiroth has knowledge of the future and as such is trying to change things so that they work out better for him. In order to keep things unaltered, the ghosts actively work to undo his changes and keep things on track, which they do throughout the game. The only thing they can't do is get rid of Sephiroth because he is necessary for the future, kind of a catch-22, he's the source of the disruption but getting rid of him would be an even bigger disruption.

    As for why the ghosts had to injure Jesse's leg? It's to give the player a clue as to what the ghosts are actually trying to do since at that point it's still unclear what their purpose is.

  6. #3306
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    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    In order to make Sephiroth a more active part of the Midgar segment, they introduced the idea that Sephiroth has knowledge of the future and as such is trying to change things so that they work out better for him. In order to keep things unaltered, the ghosts actively work to undo his changes and keep things on track, which they do throughout the game. The only thing they can't do is get rid of Sephiroth because he is necessary for the future, kind of a catch-22, he's the source of the disruption but getting rid of him would be an even bigger disruption.

    As for why the ghosts had to injure Jesse's leg? It's to give the player a clue as to what the ghosts are actually trying to do since at that point it's still unclear what their purpose is.
    Curious as to why they showed up at the church then, or all the way back in Zack's time. Nothing was in danger of changing then.

  7. #3307
    Quote Originally Posted by Selastan View Post
    Curious as to why they showed up at the church then, or all the way back in Zack's time. Nothing was in danger of changing then.
    The church was because of Cloud fighting Reno instead of just sneaking away like in the original (he also almost killed Reno). Zack is a mystery, we're not meant to know what the deal with all that is at this point.

  8. #3308
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    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    The church was because of Cloud fighting Reno instead of just sneaking away like in the original (he also almost killed Reno). Zack is a mystery, we're not meant to know what the deal with all that is at this point.
    And the overuse of Sephiroth kinda will cheapen his bad assery when it was in the classic when you see that giant snake corpse impaled...you feel the intense and how terrifying Sephiroth really is.

  9. #3309
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    And the overuse of Sephiroth kinda will cheapen his bad assery when it was in the classic when you see that giant snake corpse impaled...you feel the intense and how terrifying Sephiroth really is.
    His badassery has already been cheapened over the last 2 decades. There is no point in trying to pretend that we don't already know who he is and what he can do.

  10. #3310
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    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    His badassery has already been cheapened over the last 2 decades. There is no point in trying to pretend that we don't already know who he is and what he can do.
    I know that man but still they could make it better than what they did specially for the new players who never played the classic FF7.

    I still remember the moment Jenova escaped Shinra base and Sephiroth sword impaled Shinra dying in his office with the music and the feeling of menace...damn

  11. #3311
    Game got 100/100 on Gamespot, though I don't know how legit that site is.

  12. #3312
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    Quote Originally Posted by AryuFate View Post
    Game got 100/100 on Gamespot, though I don't know how legit that site is.
    It is a great game for sure but far from perfect really check my previous post in this topic (personal opinion though) for someone who played both the classic FF7 and the remake and been playing games since the early 80s.

  13. #3313
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    I know that man but still they could make it better than what they did specially for the new players who never played the classic FF7.

    I still remember the moment Jenova escaped Shinra base and Sephiroth sword impaled Shinra dying in his office with the music and the feeling of menace...damn
    Yeah, they could have done the exact same thing but honestly, I prefer what they did. He's a cool villain and deserves more screentime. He is surprisingly underused in the original.

  14. #3314
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    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    Yeah, they could have done the exact same thing but honestly, I prefer what they did. He's a cool villain and deserves more screentime. He is surprisingly underused in the original.
    He is underused in the Midgar section which was understandable because it was a mystery that he is back (he is suppose to be dead) being as you call it under use in the original was part of the charm of his character.

  15. #3315
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    He is underused in the Midgar section which was understandable because it was a mystery that he is back (he is suppose to be dead) being as you call it under use in the original was part of the charm of his character.
    Which worked when we had no idea who he was. Now he's one of the most popular villains of all time so I say use him more.

    Even outside of Midgar he barely showed up in the original, the few times he did it was just to spout cryptic nonsense, mess with cloud and pull Jenova monsters out of his ass. Even then the game doesn't really explain why he's such a major threat that needs to be stopped until Meteor is revealed which doesn't happen until late into the game. Until then you're just chasing after him for reasons that aren't made entirely clear while Shinra, who up until that point were portrayed as a major threat, become cartoonish villains who are more of a nuisance than an actual concern for the heroes.

  16. #3316
    gone through the game yet again for the "what's happening in the background during fights" lulz and i've noticed that when you fight against Jenova, the area or more specifically the background is reminiscent of where we fought against Jenova Synthesis in the OG. love the small details they include in fights like this =)

  17. #3317
    FF7 is by far the most successful

  18. #3318
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    It's out on Apple music and soon on Spotify as well hopefully.

  19. #3319
    Quote Originally Posted by AryuFate View Post
    Game got 100/100 on Gamespot, though I don't know how legit that site is.
    It’s a great game and I really enjoy it. That said, there are plenty of issues with it, such as obvious fan service moments, combat issues, and the like. None of the issues makes the game unplayable or ruins most of the enjoyment. A 100 implies a perfect score, and this game definitely isn’t perfect, but it’s definitely high 80 to low 90 range.
    This is my personal opinion of course, but there are also some critics on YouTube that state similar, or even different, issues while raving about how great of a game it is.

  20. #3320
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    Quote Originally Posted by AryuFate View Post
    Game got 100/100 on Gamespot, though I don't know how legit that site is.
    Well as far as remakes go this thing is a masterpiece. Some story elements towards the end put aside the sheer quality of this game is nothing short of spectacular.

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