Make Solo Dungeons Viable

[VinceVega]

Ffs... why is half the playerbase trying to make the game into a SP game?

If i want to play a SP-RPG i play SP-RPG. There are hundreds of RPGs out there. Who do this part better than MMOs will ever be able to.

Don't destroy one of the last good MMORPGs to somehow cater to your aversion of playing with other people... god damn... that actually triggered me....

[mysticx]

That's all well and good. Yet, the moment you take the players out of the equation, is it still a MMORPG? The whole point of the MMO genre when it took off was to team up with other players to do difficult challenges. From what I've been reading you want all of the perks of a mmo without any of the people in it, aka a single player game. Sure you like the chat function but that's a glaring red flag to me. You like the "function" not the "people you are talking to."

One of the problems that "When it (The MMORPG genre) took off" is a good 20 years ago, gaming and the players have changed immensely since then, i'm pretty sure that is the cause of the gradual shift to solo-content we have seen so far, and given that, don't see the problem in having normal-mode (Not heroic, let alone mythic) of dungeons soloable so people can get dungeon quests done and do the dungeons at a less frantic pace to take in the lore and environment there, as far as loot goes, normal dungeons are obsolete in the first few hours at level cap, anyway...

[chiddie]

Lol, WoW was the biggest mmo in the world with far less solo content than it even has today, how does removing even more social interactions make people quit, fuck outta here, go play Diablo or PoE if you want solo gear progression

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Allowing nearly all the content to be soloable is opposite to what the genre is supposed to be and represent. I am for new solo content being made like Mage tower or Torghast, but the existing content should not be altered and rebalanced to allow for people scared of "toxic players" to ignore any social interaction

People who want this, don't want an MMORPG, and they can go find another game to play instead of expecting the genre to cater to their specific demands.
Kingdoms of Amalur is a great choice

It’s fine of course to maintain the players interaction, something has to be done to make it happen in a more constant way.

Yesterday I lost 40 minutes trying to be accepted in a +8 with a 452 ilvl toon (so anything under 8 is useless) then I gave up an logged with another toon I’m leveling not to waste the evening.

This basically happens EVERY day with ANY toon I have that is not a tank or a healer. I cannot progress unless I use my key (which takes AGES while my healer and tank do not push their own keys since centuries).

I still have to understand why there’s no random queue as an OPTION for M+ also. Game asks you a few things (level range of the key you wanna do, which dungeons you wanna queue), check if your ilvl is appropriate and then puts you into the queue. Should not be that hard to implement.

[Frolk]

Wanna go solo?

Skyrim and Dragonage is there for you.

[iosdeveloper]

they'll definately consider solo-mode for all dungeons after finding out Torghast to be a killer feature (which is sad imo)

[ek0zu]

What people doesn't seem to understand no matter what, WoW at its core is -still- a cooperative game and as such all iterations implemented need to enhance this style of play.

WoW, even though it plays nice as a solo player, the truth is that it is fucking boring to do so. Believe me by saying that, i really like WoW and the way it plays but since TBC when i quitted from both its PvP aspect and its PVE, i play a bit of every expansion but you can go on only for a few months by playing with randoms.

I would love to see a true single player game done by Blizzard in the Warcraft Universe or in any other and play similarly to WoW, but i want even more to see WoW becoming the co-operative game that it was back in the day, maybe i am a boomer in terms of mmorpg's even though i am only 32 but the current iteration of how things are done turns me off massively and i am sure that i am the minority here that's why the game has evolved in something that is so massively away from what i would like.

[VinceVega]

Yeah and why do you think they test around with Island Expedition/Warfront/Dungeon-AI? Maybe because they plan to make it a feature.


Yeah because everyone who plays the game should play it the way you like it, right? Keep repeating that 20+ year old MMORPG-definition like a mantra.


You know whats cool with WoW? You have the choice to play it however you want to, I think there are plenty of happy solo-playing campers out there.

You can play however you want. There are many ways to play it. But stop making an MMO a SP game. You can just kick it to the crub then because the MMO part would be dead. And the mometn you give in with this everyone wants more. Why no solo raids? Why do we not get gear? Why is the mythic gear better than my solo gear?

The same i want everything without doing anythign mentallity that kicked of the whole sekiro difficulty discussion. The game is just not intended to play this way. Get over it. There are thousands of games you can play alone. Stop trying to make this game worse for everyone else by demanding everything should be easy and accesible.

[VinceVega]

And if you want to play a game that lives and dies by the trict old MMORPG-definition, I am sure there are plenty of other games that does it better than WoW.

What has "i want everything without doing anything mentality" got to do with giving the choice of queueing nm/hc/lfr content solo for lack of queues?

As so often I see people use extreme hyperboles that are unrelated to the subject instead of coming up with a good argument for something.

I have not seen any good arguments for anything related to this. Everything always boils down to a) i don't want to play with others b) i only play dd.
There have always and will always be more DDs than Tanks and Healers. I won't change unless you get rid of the roles alltogether which is even worse. There are enough players playing it. People just want everything immediatly on a plate. Wait half an hour and you get into nearly every activity in the game. If that is not fast enough: Make a group! Find friends. Play the freaking MMO part of the MMO.

[Yriel]

And like someone said before solo will become the default for most people that at doing PUGs now.
So their has to be an incentive for group play. „Why can I not get the same XX when doing content solo?“.. and we go full circle.

Whats wrong with that? If people enjoy solo play more, why has group play to be incentivized?

Yes, but that has nothing to do with the grouping system. The comment I replied to was complaining about the system.

That has a lot to with the grouping system. There was always a gogogogogogo crowd but ever since M+ random dungeons have become genuinely unfun fo me to play.

That's all well and good. Yet, the moment you take the players out of the equation, is it still a MMORPG? The whole point of the MMO genre when it took off was to team up with other players to do difficult challenges.

And that iteration od MMOs is dead now. The few ones that somehow survived are those MMOs with strong solo possibilities. Times have moved on boomer.

And one could really argue with your last sentence. The genre really took off with WoW and that was always a more solo orientated MMO compared with its predecessors.

[Lahis]

Yeah and why do you think they test around with Island Expedition/Warfront/Dungeon-AI? Maybe because they plan to make it a feature.

That AI exists to make slightly better enemies than the regular mobs why just stand there to take the beating.

[Sarethion]

I'm generally against the idea of "solo dungeons" as a substitute to regular dungeons, but...I would be for a solo "tutorial" mode.

How could this work?
- You go in with a full team of NPCs that mimics the standard team composition (for instance - tank, healer, 3 dps for a dungeon)
- You don't get any gear rewards, only some gold and treasure items to cover the repair costs
- There are some scripted hints as to what mechanics to look out for and how to counter them

Why I think this would be good for the game?

- It allows people to learn the mechanics by seeing them in practice, rather than watching or reading a guide - would be helpful for both new players, people who play the game for some time, but have never dared to "try" dungeons and even for some experienced players who'd prefer to spend 20-30 minutes doing the tutorial mode to actually see the mechanics rather than use that time to watch or read a guide.

- It creates a safe environment for people who wish to try a new role, spec, build, gear, tanking routes, etc. - let's face it, it's pretty awkward to do it right now as you're either asking your friends to potentially waste some of their time while you learn or risk running into toxic a-holes that will give you grief for any mistake that you make.

- It could also serve as a way to "see the content" for those who don't care about rewards - it's especially nice for people who join late in an expansion and would just want to complete a quest that sends them to an older raid that pretty much nobody else wants to do. And heck, maybe some people would find such mode fun or even decide to try actual dungeons/raids to see how it's like with real people?

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Moreover, if queueing up to LFD/LFR was somehow tied to the completion of tutorial mode, it might force some players to actually learn and improve, not just queue up and hope they get carried. I mean, if you had to complete the tutorial to queue up, you'd have to at least be at a certain level of skill or knowledge when you are placed in a group, so the chances of getting a competent LFD/LFR group should increase.

[Frolk]

You know whats cool with WoW? You have the choice to play it however you want to, I think there are plenty of happy solo-playing campers out there.

Arnt they happy with questing, tmog farming or LFR as solo content? Should be a lot to do solo ingame as it is.

[Lahis]

Moreover, if queueing up to LFD/LFR was somehow tied to the completion of tutorial mode, it might force some players to actually learn and improve, not just queue up and hope they get carried. I mean, if you had to complete the tutorial to queue up, you'd have to at least be at a certain level of skill or knowledge when you are placed in a group, so the chances of getting a competent LFD/LFR group should increase.

They tried that in WoD and it backfired big time when big portion of players couldn't finish Silver Medal in Proving Grounds.

[czarek]

Retail poo. Classic that's the real MMO Cheers.

[Artemol]

There is a solution ya'll be missing:

For Raids:

Regular Raid Setup: 10->20 People, IE. Rewards itemlvl 500 Gear.
From 5-9 Players: Gear scales up by 2 itemlvl per player missing below 10 players. ie. 9 people = 502 ilvl, 8 people = 504 ilvl etc, 7=506, 6 = 508, 5 = 510.
from 2-4 players, itemlvl is increased by 5. pr. player missing. Meaning 4 players = 515, 3= 520, 2 = 525.
Solo players recieve an additional 10 itemlvl. meaning if you can somehow solo a raid boss, you get 535 itemlvl gear.

For Dungeons and mythic+.
Same concept, per player missing you get +5 itemlvl.
At solo-mode you can chose an AI, either a tank or a healer, but not both.
Tanks have the option to get a DPS AI, instead of a tank AI.

This solution provides solo content for those who can, and for those who can't solo shit, well play in groups and get rewarded less.

[Sarethion]

They tried that in WoD and it backfired big time when big portion of players couldn't finish Silver Medal in Proving Grounds.

I know and honestly, it's really sad that Blizzard went back on this, but... It's a vastly different situation to have to do an arbitrary challenge with an arbitrary rating to gain access to what you actually want to do and be able to do what you want to do at any time (solo, but without rewards, just "for the quest"*) and only have to strive for that arbitrary rating if you want to play that type of content with others.

*And no, I don't think it would matter if some Crappy Joe spent 3 hours bashing his head against the solo tutorial mode just to experience a little bit of story that he can read or watch online anyway or get like 2k Azerite and 50 Gold. Or at least it would matter less and have a much higher chance of turning that Crappy Joe into a Decent Joe than having him use the dungeon finder to find 4 people who don't mind carrying his butt to that reward and pissing off others who did.

[Lahis]

There is a solution ya'll be missing:

For Raids:

Regular Raid Setup: 10->20 People, IE. Rewards itemlvl 500 Gear.
From 5-9 Players: Gear scales up by 2 itemlvl per player missing below 10 players. ie. 9 people = 502 ilvl, 8 people = 504 ilvl etc, 7=506, 6 = 508, 5 = 510.
from 2-4 players, itemlvl is increased by 5. pr. player missing. Meaning 4 players = 515, 3= 520, 2 = 525.
Solo players recieve an additional 10 itemlvl. meaning if you can somehow solo a raid boss, you get 535 itemlvl gear.

For Dungeons and mythic+.
Same concept, per player missing you get +5 itemlvl.
At solo-mode you can chose an AI, either a tank or a healer, but not both.
Tanks have the option to get a DPS AI, instead of a tank AI.

This solution provides solo content for those who can, and for those who can't solo shit, well play in groups and get rewarded less.

That is about ass-backwards as you could get.

[Itori]

I understand why people complain about group content and want to solo, but solo dungeons are even less fun. FF has a solo dungeon system and it is incredibly boring because you know you're there having to make up for shit AI, imo the reason WoW group content isnt fun is because the community isnt fun, its devolved into an anti social swamp of assholes who only want to speak when its time to criticize or attack other players.

I lvled dungeons from 20-100 and i can count on one hand how many pleasant conversations i had during dungeons, and those conversations made the experience fun.

[Lahis]

Or at least it would matter less and have a much higher chance of turning that Crappy Joe into a Decent Joe than having him use the dungeon finder to find 4 people who don't mind carrying his butt to that reward and pissing off others who did.

But Cata heroics and WoD PG showed us that average player is both surprisingly bad at the game and unwilling to improve. They'd rather just quit than overcome the challenge.

[alt-ithist]

Because the game changes, and grows. The time you invest in your character is carried over from expansion to expansion.

I really can't think of any other Single Player game that does that.

Possibly Pokémon.