Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[DeicideUH]

Just noticed the undead customization options are in. And they are pretty awesome. All those options for the face are separated now (jaw, eyes, leather straps) and you can select three stages of decomposition: fresh, mottled and bony. Eye colors include yellow, red, blue, purple, green, white, dead (no glow) and eyeless (empty sockets). Pretty cool.

Oh, and the new skin colors are the best they ever had.

I miss facial hair options, thought. It would be cool to see undead with some amount of beards.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I'd rather High Elves as their separate option so I'm ok with this.

IDK. Would I prefer this unlikely scenario or would I prefer this VERY unlikely scenario? I'd rather have something, you know.

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They probably got some ideas from the high elf threads...

Heh. But yeh, kinda sucks, but to be fair, it's an awesome beard design and actually more resembling to Lor'themar's. My guy's beard is like the in between this one and the VE chinstrap. But WE, nothing short of "neutral" blood elves would make me roll my alliance main as a BE XD.

And that beard will look very sweet on my rogue, so yay.

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Maybe, but with the High Elf request still being acknowledged as possible by Afrasiabi, Ion saying just cuz they're not in bfa doesn't mean they wont be in wow ever, and the confirmation of no blue eyed blood elves along with noting character customization is never going to stop/have a definite end.

Well you're pretty much just setting to add in a very highly requested option that also makes sense for one faction.

It's kind of like the addition of Charcoal miner Dark Irons didn't stop fans from wanting the third well-known clan (Wildhammer) for their faction.

To me, it's more looking like how do Blizzard want to handle High Elves rather than if at this point.

Maybe? IDK. like I really don't know if my lack of belief HE's will ever be playable is caused by a logical appreciation of the evidence or just ennui towards the situation.

Like I do think some people within Blizzard do want them to be playable, but I just don't think the overall design choices care about it, so yeh. I'm really not hopeful.

I legit it's more likely that the faction paradigm shifts rather than they put the effort into implementing HE's as an Allied Race, because it just doesn't look to me like the people in charge really care about the request for High Elves.

[FlubberPuddy]

IDK. Would I prefer this unlikely scenario or would I prefer this VERY unlikely scenario? I'd rather have something, you know.

I'm with you there as well

Maybe? IDK. like I really don't know if my lack of belief HE's will ever be playable is caused by a logical appreciation of the evidence or just ennui towards the situation.

Like I do think some people within Blizzard do want them to be playable, but I just don't think the overall design choices care about it, so yeh. I'm really not hopeful.

I legit it's more likely that the faction paradigm shifts rather than they put the effort into implementing HE's as an Allied Race, because it just doesn't look to me like the people in charge really care about the request for High Elves.

I just treat it like Demonhunters personally. Something I really want in the game, but not what makes or breaks it for me. So I go on about my wow business for the most part pretty much, just don't like people who are obviously trying to stop/negate a request. That's silly imo, let people ask for what they want, however long they wish. Some treat it as if it's tormenting their own existence by seeing others ask about it!

Mmmm about the faction paradigm idk. Really depends, I still don't think we're there. But I know for sure that I'm seeing a LOT more calls for negating the faction divide in end-game content than previously before. And Blizzard flip-flopping so soon after their repeated 'No' at Blizzcon 2019, makes me think they didn't realize how many people don't care as much for the faction divide than say a decade ago.

Either way though, from DeicideUH's post on the Undead Customizations it's clear these are very quality additions and I don't see them not allowing Allied Races to have that kind of improved customization either (we're already seeing it with Draenei, Void Elves, for instance). It'll be interesting to see how they handle it there, because as stated previously the biggest call for Void Elf fans appears to be "I want to look like Alleria" who is basically a High Elf.

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Perculia really has to do it on purpose lol

Perc's mentioned multiple times that blue eyes on blood elves wouldn't make sense (as in like few years ago to currently) so I'm sure she's teasing purposely as well

[Strippling]

"A fragmented group of Eredar are aligned with the alliance. the main group of Eredar society are allied with the burning legion. that is a fact, not headcanon"

This is like you sound-

Yeah, we call those eredar Draenei, like we call the "high elves" currently on the horde, blood elves. This purposeful obfuscation of nomenclature is transparent AF

It is not purposeful obfuscation. I acknowledge that there are a group of high elves aligned with the Alliance, but I am also of the opinion that this fractured group of Alliance aligned high elves do not represent the high elf race in WoW. The high elf race is represented by the blood elves, they are the embodiment of the high elven race. The fractured group aligned with the Alliance have no real society or culture, and are assimilating into human society. They are exiles of the predominant high elven group, aka the blood elves.

It is disingenuous to say "blood elves aren't called high elves so they are not the high elves of WoW". Despite the group aligned with the alliance referring to themselves as "high elves", they are not the representation of the high elf race. This is where the crux of the debate lies, blood elves are our high elves as defined by Chris Metzen. Blood elves were designed from the very start to be the continuation of high elf society. They are the legacy of the high elf race. Making the alliance aligned high elves playable would blur that identity, it would blur faction lines and it would water down the uniqueness of blood elves, who are our high elves of WoW. You may not care about this consequence, but I certainly do and many others as well. Blood elves are our high elves, this was plain and simply stated by Chris Metzen. Blood elves are the legacy of the high elf race, this is plain and simply portrayed in-game. Blurring that identity for the sake of a fractured group who are not even unified and are dissipating within human society would be a great injustice to the high elf race who are a CORE race of the Horde.

You can disagree all you want, but don't act like I'm being "purposefully obtuse". It is a genuine counter argument to emphasize that blood elves are our high elves. The lead developers have said such and the game shows us how they are the legacy of the high elves.

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Apparently, blue and purple eyes are for void elves.
https://www.wowhead.com/news=316173/...ding-blue-eyes

Purple eyes are for NPCs only

[matrix123mko]

no, not headcanon, but putting two and two together from the canon lore we have. WotA tells us they are connected to the WEll, Chronicles revealed how and why, because they are made and modified by it directly although it doesn't show us how. WotA the Sundering tells us that when the 2nd well was reformed they could feel it inside.
Warcraft website articles on eye glows that tells us they glow is because of the inner power from their connection to the WEll of eternity - which I deduce to me a link to Azeroth'z arcane blood, since the glow was never lost when the first well imploded.
Several places in lore it is remarked the blood elves hold the night elves, in particular the Darnassiasn in contempt because of the power they have had and wasted by not ustilising, this refers to the Well and Moonwell and the inner power they've being squandering out of "cowardice", "superstition" and baseless "fear" - as they put it.

Their new well doesn't work because Nordrassil exists. This means that elves don't need wells to have glowing eyes.

Meanwhile the High elves devolved, the connection and inner arcane power lost, this to me implies there were no glowing eyes as they lost immortality, lost height, lost stature, lost intelligence and became much weaker versions of their former selves.

Except it was not a deevolution. They indeed became weaker for a moment but it didn't change their bodies. I would call it a temporary illness. Similar to one that nightborne suffer when they go out of Suramar. Without constant suffusion of arcane magic, mortal race is suspectible to diseases. Night elves didn't suffer that only because they were blessed by Alextrasza.

Until they found Quel'thalas and established the sunwell, they keep themselves constantly suffused with its power, they aren't made from the sunwell, and their natural connection to the WEll of Eternity is severed (this is lore), so what they have is a man made or rather elf made artificial connection (this is the deduction I make).

Keep in mind that night elves have their connection to Well of Eternity severed too. Original one doesn't exist and the new one was completely disabled by Cenarius.

I imagine this to mean that these elves in a weakened state require this enhancement more than ever, but it's not on the same level as the Well of Eternity, but thye make very good use of it. When the power source is destroyed by Kael'thas (lore), I deduce gone is the eye glow, for there is no arcane power charging them up, and they have no natural inner one biologically.

There is no reason why they wouldn't have it. Here you are creating lore out of thin air.

It's dangerous for them when their well is polluted because of how connected they are to it, meanwhile when a moonwell is polluted or the Well of Eternity imploded the night elves don't lose that connection though they notice the loss keenly (this is lore in War of the ancients and in quests), because the connection is the aracne blood of the titan (the source of the Well, not the physical pooling in a location like Zin'Azshari or Hyjal).

Give me the quote.

Currently you are trying to convince me that Highborne lose connection to the Well of Eternity(lite) by simply going further from it, while night elves do not lose power when the original well is destroyed. It doesn't make sense, especially when you realise that Well of Eternity in Hyjal doesn't work at all.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

It is not purposeful obfuscation. I acknowledge that there are a group of high elves aligned with the Alliance, but I am also of the opinion that this fractured group of Alliance aligned high elves do not represent the high elf race in WoW. The high elf race is represented by the blood elves, they are the embodiment of the high elven race. The fractured group aligned with the Alliance have no real society or culture, and are assimilating into human society. They are exiles of the predominant high elven group, aka the blood elves.

It is disingenuous to say "blood elves aren't called high elves so they are not the high elves of WoW". Despite the group aligned with the alliance referring to themselves as "high elves", they are not the representation of the high elf race. This is where the crux of the debate lies, blood elves are our high elves as defined by Chris Metzen. Blood elves were designed from the very start to be the continuation of high elf society. They are the legacy of the high elf race. Making the alliance aligned high elves playable would blur that identity, it would blur faction lines and it would water down the uniqueness of blood elves, who are our high elves of WoW. You may not care about this consequence, but I certainly do and many others as well. Blood elves are our high elves, this was plain and simply stated by Chris Metzen. Blood elves are the legacy of the high elf race, this is plain and simply portrayed in-game. Blurring that identity for the sake of a fractured group who are not even unified and are dissipating within human society would be a great injustice to the high elf race who are a CORE race of the Horde.

You can disagree all you want, but don't act like I'm being "purposefully obtuse". It is a genuine counter argument to emphasize that blood elves are our high elves. The lead developers have said such and the game shows us how they are the legacy of the high elves.

But you are being, because it's immaterial what name either group uses. High Elves are not more High Elves because they have the name dear lord, it's an issue of simple nomenclature, who's using it currently, it does not bestow any special legacy, it's just a freaking name.

but I am also of the opinion that this fractured group of Alliance aligned high elves do not represent the high elf race in WoW.

There's no "high elf" race to represent more or less of. Draenei are far truer representants of the ancient Eredar than the ones using the name now; but it doesn't change the fact they are called Draenei now, and call them Draenei, not Eredar. Not because high elves use the name makes them truer representation. Specially since the truer representation of the Thalassian elves as a whole, is CHANGING THEIR NAME TO BLOOD ELF TO HONOR THEIR FALLEN.

It is disingenuous to say "blood elves aren't called high elves so they are not the high elves of WoW".

This is a bad strawman, cause I'm not even saying that, because, again, the name doesn't freaking matter. It's just the name currently available to call the two distinct groups -hence the purposeful obfuscation- High Elves could change their name to anything right now, still wouldn't make them more or less high elven than they are now.

"Blood Elves are WoW's version of the generic high elf fantasy" that's a statement that I would make. "High Elves are a remnant of WoW's version of the generic high elf fantasy" as well.

This is where the crux of the debate lies, blood elves are our high elves as defined by Chris Metzen. Blood elves were designed from the very start to be the continuation of high elf society. They are the legacy of the high elf race. Making the alliance aligned high elves playable would blur that identity, it would blur faction lines and it would water down the uniqueness of blood elves, who are our high elves of WoW.

The huge problem here is that you think the name means anything, that somehow HE's having the name high elves holds any significance regarding their place on Lore. Blood Elves still remain the main continuation of the elven legacy, those are simply facts, again, it's utterly irrelevant to that that high elves kept the name. Because it's just a name.

The whole point about it watering down be "uniqueness" is horseshoes, why would it? Blood Elves are not defined by whatever other group of thalassian elves do. and not because they are the main continuation of that story, it means that tangents to it shouldn't exist. Cause evidently, they do, as per evidence of the high elves currently on the alliance.

This whole notion that BE should be the only thalassian elf is just.. basic. What's the issue with nuance? Cause it really comes across as a misunderstanding of what makes Blood Elves, well, Blood Elves. Would you be happy if they started to use the name High Elf again, and High Elves become Silver Elves or something? because it's literally worthless because it's simply a self denominational issue and for lord's sake has nothing to do with who has more legacy to the thalassian legacy, FFS.

[FlubberPuddy]

This whole notion that BE should be the only thalassian elf is just.. basic. What's the issue with nuance? Cause it really comes across as a misunderstanding of what makes Blood Elves, well, Blood Elves. Would you be happy if they started to use the name High Elf again, and High Elves become Silver Elves or something? because it's literally worthless because it's simply a self denominational issue and for lord's sake has nothing to do with who has more legacy to the thalassian legacy, FFS.

Yeah they just like to harp on it because they have no strong arguments.

If the current self-identifying High Elves of the Alliance weren't called High Elves and were called Silver Elves or Human Potential Elves or w/e people would still ask for them, because it's about being able to play characters like Vereesa or Alleria (pre-void) or Frostfencer Seraphi or the 7th Legion High Elves or Highvale etc etc.

Blood Elves are not the High Elf fantasy in the High Elf request so focusing on another group of high elves (Blood Elves) does nothing.

[Sharby]

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Beards for blood elves include this one:


And this one:

I really really wish they went all out with the bottom one and had it include the top inside it to make a full, thick beard.


I know hairy elves aren't really a thing but it would make me play one so fast.


Maybe high-elves will fulfill my request as they appear to be more unkempt/wild than Belves.

[Obelisk Kai]

I don't know, there was the "don't lose hope" from Feasel...]

From Afrasiabi.

There was also the Ion interview in 2013 when he mentioned high elves as a possible sub-race, I am sure you remember that one.

We all know how that turned out once they had the opportunity to sit down and think about it. And now they have had their time to think about the request for high elf customisations on Void Elves. The signs aren't good.
After all, if Blood Elves have moved past blue eyes, there seems to be little hope for Void Elves getting high elf skin tones as they've clearly moved past that themselves.

[Frenchvince]

Purple eyes are for NPCs only

Yes the purple eyes will be for one or more NPCs, I wonder for whom?
I think of someone in particular when I see this color.

[Obelisk Kai]

Yeh but it's pretty obvious that ultimately what makes VE and BE "distinct enough"for Blizzard is that they threw one into a blueberry juice vat. For me it feels kinda obvious they will dabble around but keep that strict differentiation for the forseeable future:

Blood Elves: Pink Skinned, Fair/Warm Haired, Green and Golden eyes
Void Elves: Blue skinned, Dark/Cold Haired, Blue and Violet (?) eyes

The fact they are downright shoting down blue eyed blood elves really points they want distinct aesthetics, even if it only comes down to coloring. Do I agree? Heck no, it's kinda lazy, but it just seems to be the logic behind. Seems there is sone tolerable overlap and one that isn't, and that one seems to be coloring.

I agree that this is what is happening. They will seek to diversify the Void Elves and Blood Elves as much possible through character customizations. Therefore the blue eye colour being rejected for Blood Elves wasn't meant to placate pro high elf fans directly, but it likely serves a convenient extra point of differentiation between the two thalassian elf groups.

I suspect Blood Elves will get more jewellery customisations, still missing earrings and torcs on the males (or their male equivalents). Void Elves in contrast are begging for bioluminescent tattoos that would contrast vividly with their darker skin tones and it would be sad if they didn't get them.

As for Void Elf eye customisation I suspect all the allied races will get some baseline eye colour work, otherwise the eye colour selection for them would look terrible on launch day with a single option. Many races can simply import the eye colours from their parents, as eye colour only matters for very few races (the glowy eye ones).

Facial hair is an example of tolerable overlap. Multiple races share multiple hairstyles and beard styles without it impacting them being diverse from each other. The Blood Elves getting one or two of the Void Elf options is more a reflection of the fact that there are only so many ways to style a beard.

Ear size will likely also be shared with the Void Elves.

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I see no reason why not.

Because it's inconsistent with the Blood Elf aesthetic?

Deathly white hair would be better on a void elf anyway, forming a nice contrast with the majority of their blue skin tones.

[Strippling]

snip

Clearly neither of us are understanding each others points of views. I feel the point of my reply to you got lost along the way, and you seem to think I have some vendetta against a name or a group.. I don't FYI. Perhaps it comes down to reading a text is not the same as having face to face convo. Nevertheless, suffice it to say I have no issue with high elves calling themselves as such or that they exist. I appreciate nuance. The position I hold is that racial uniqueness is an integral aspect of WoW.. it's been key feature of WoW since it's inception. Each race is unique from one another, each race has its own thematic, culture, etc..

The crux of alliance high elves is that what sets them apart from their already playable kin is politics. That's it. From a GAMEPLAY perspective how do you differentiate that? You can't. Blood elves and high elves are the same race. Thematically they are the same too. HE fans seem to push this "woodland elf" agenda to show how alliance high elves are different, but the next issue is that the farstriders are exactly that and they are a blood elf unit. Gameplay wise high elves would do nothing but water down blood elves. Lorewise it doesn't matter whether they're playable or not because their inclusion in the WoW universe would exist regardless. HE fans then say "well make them look different I just want to play an elf that's been loyal to the Alliance"... ok well it's safe to assume that the high elf wayfarers at Telogrus Rift are studying the void. One could easily RP their void elf as an elf who was always loyal to the Alliance. They look different and can easily be RP'ed as a high elf, so what's the issue with this? Why do light skins and hair have to be an option (an option mind you that would essentially make them blood elves tit for tat)? The issue is that all arguments aside HE fans want to play an aesthetic and thematic already manifested in the blood elves. This watering down of blood elves would be inevitable. Gameplay wise it just doesn't make sense.

So, please, explain to me why it would be acceptable to water down a race that has been core to the Horde for over a decade? Despite alliance high elves existing in story (which they can continue to do so), why should blood elves (the main high elven race) be watered down from a gameplay perspective? The lore is not an issue, neither is the name, the issue is that racial uniqueness has been an integral part of WoW and the "high elf theme" is covered by the blood elves who are on the Horde. Giving the Alliance void elves and high elves would give them two variants of the "high elves" to Horde's one, despite the majority of thalassian elves being allied to the Horde. So, again, GAMEPLAY wise explain to me where alliance high elves fit in without directly impeding on the blood elves.


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Yes the purple eyes will be for one or more NPCs, I wonder for whom?
I think of someone in particular when I see this color.

Don't really care who they're for. I was just pointing out that your statement of void elves getting purple eyes was incorrect, as the datamined files say that they are NPC customization.. not player character customizations

[Obelisk Kai]

Don't really care who they're for. I was just pointing out that your statement of void elves getting purple eyes was incorrect, as the datamined files say that they are NPC customization.. not player character customizations

I wonder why they exist. Whilst watching Stiven doing the datamining last night I noticed they were flagged as unclassifiable which showed they were NPC only (ironically the blue eyes options were flagged the same way as the green and golden eye colours do I don't know what was up with that).

I doubt it's Veressa. I think the eye colour in that drawing is more to do with her using Arcane Shot rather than having it as a permanent representation, and you can see she is surrounded by glowing pink energies as she does so (even the gems on her armour are glowing). An artistic liberty in other words.

[Frenchvince]

Don't really care who they're for. I was just pointing out that your statement of void elves getting purple eyes was incorrect, as the datamined files say that they are NPC customization.. not player character customizations

Yes and that's normal because I posted before wowhead rectified their post.
There were also black / dark green eyes for NPCs, very strange there.

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I wonder why they exist. Whilst watching Stiven doing the datamining last night I noticed they were flagged as unclassifiable which showed they were NPC only (ironically the blue eyes options were flagged the same way as the green and golden eye colours do I don't know what was up with that).

I doubt it's Veressa. I think the eye colour in that drawing is more to do with her using Arcane Shot rather than having it as a permanent representation, and you can see she is surrounded by glowing pink energies as she does so (even the gems on her armour are glowing). An artistic liberty in other words.

I don't see anything ironic, it's still in the works, apparently the high-elf NPCs are still not updated and the blood / void elves are not available for players in the alpha.

https://twitter.com/Zorbrix/status/1263648432117346305

[Astranea]

Just a genuine question: was there any indication of the smaller Blood Elf ears being a player or NPC asset?

[Kyriani]

Just a genuine question: was there any indication of the smaller Blood Elf ears being a player or NPC asset?

I too would like to know this. I hope that it ends up being an option for player Blood Elves and Void Elves though.

[Frenchvince]

It is true that nothing can confirm it, I would like to know too.
We'll have to wait to see if there is a new slider for ear size in character creation.

[Obelisk Kai]

Just a genuine question: was there any indication of the smaller Blood Elf ears being a player or NPC asset?

I too would like to know this. I hope that it ends up being an option for player Blood Elves and Void Elves though.

Unless proven otherwise I would assume they are player customisation options. There is no logical reason to introduce them otherwise and I am sure there are plenty of people who would prefer smaller ears on the Blood and Void Elves.

Also I have to imagine they would be wary of introducing a ton of options they then wall off as 'NPC only'. Blue eyes is understandable if that want that to be a Void Elf thing (which increasingly seems to be the case) but there is no reason to restrict ear length.

[Austilias]

I suppose the blue eyes for Void Elves would be a nice touch, however there are so many eye colours flying around at the minute, and with no confirmation of which are for player models and which are for NPCs, that there's no point getting too strongly attached just yet.

If/when they get around to more allied race customisations (although it's frankly weird/interesting that they're giving any attention at all to Void Elves, when they talked about focusing on core races first), I wish they'd just bite the bullet and implement a Worgenesque customisation (or some sort of quest line to unlock a new racial) whereby Void Elves can follow in the footsteps of Valeria and have a non-corrupted out-of-combat form and a void-ey in-combat form that activates upon entering combat. Sure, it might be a lore ass-pull as Valeria is supposed to the only Void Elf who can do that, but then the entire Void Elf race was one colossal ass-pull so it's hardly much of a stretch.

Blizzard continues to demonstrate that their anti-Alliance-High Elf perspective is not entirely set in stone with moves like the introduction of explicitly blue eyes (if confirmed to be accessible to player Void Elf models).

[Kyriani]

Unless proven otherwise I would assume they are player customisation options. There is no logical reason to introduce them otherwise and I am sure there are plenty of people who would prefer smaller ears on the Blood and Void Elves.

Also I have to imagine they would be wary of introducing a ton of options they then wall off as 'NPC only'. Blue eyes is understandable if that want that to be a Void Elf thing (which increasingly seems to be the case) but there is no reason to restrict ear length.

The only reason I can think of for it to be NPC only is if Blizzard intends to use them specifically for Half-Elf npc's like Arator and possibly Alodi and Kalec's humanoid form if they change their models (since both are supposed to be Half-Elves but use the Human model).

With that said, since it seems there's not just a "standard" and "short" option but some wiggle room in between, it does seem likely to be for player use. It's just difficult to risk getting my hopes up based on datamining after what happened with the assumed blue eyes for Blood Elves.