Night Elves, Magic & the Arcane - Common Misconceptions & Things You Didn't Consider

[eurojust]

"the damn legion" who didn't come in full force like now, they came mostly in portals and that can diminish your numbers.

It was still a huge enemy, and they had Azshara and her highbornes on their side.

they were not that big, they being "their own faction" don't mean they were more powerful than alliance and horde together like you guys like to preach

I never said that they were more powerful than the alliance or the Horde together. You are the one assuming without any evidence that in lore they were weak and were their own faction only because gameplay.

still not nearly as powerful as you like to think, if he was, he would have streamrolled everything when we play with him, he was just a hero unit like any other else, not abnormally stronger, that only came later.

This is a fact : He fought 1v1 Azshara and it was a draw.

Only Grom was necessary to defeat Cenarius, the warsong destroyed the sentinels, before and after the demonblood, it is explained in the chronicles their fight, is not in a small scale, she didn't "destroyed", she killed some of then who were wandering gathering resources

Same way way Grom didn't destroy the sentinels then. Did chronicles retcon the fact that the Warsong used fel blood to win?

It was Hyjal, you know, the main ehart of the night elf residence, where the old tree was, and where Archimonde went.

Hyjal was a mountain. Ashenvale was the forest bordering it where the Night Elves decided to live.
"As the centuries passed, the night elves’ new society grew strong and expanded throughout the budding forest that they came to call Ashenvale."
The thing about Night Elves living in a giant tree happened with vanilla. Seriously stop claiming things without any source.

They were units for the sake of gameplay, Forsakens don't have wyrms, Forsakens don't have DKs, they just appear in the pvp thing

im saying is stone giants still afilliated to the night elves would change nothing in a long run, they were creeps, mobs, unimportant as siege units

Because Forsaken aren't the scourge, you can't compare them with the night elves since they weren't the main playable undead faction from wc3. You think Sylvanas had Lichs and DKs serving her yelling "My life for Ner'zhul"?
How do you know about Mountain Giants being useless? That's the same as saying that Tauren, Dwarves, etc. were unimportant.

this is what is writen in his description:

They, by being benevolent and solitary, only came to help the night elves against the Legion, after the danger is gone, there is no sense for then to keep following the night elves, in their mad drive killing orcs.

Another lie without source
This is their wc3 description :
"Now the mountain giants have pledged their courage and strength to the night elves' cause"

Your facts are a bit out of place here, the horde was so populous that Blackmoore was planing to overtake the alliance using it, they didn't got their "ass kicked by a human kingdom" even lordaeron had problems with the blackrock alone, no one ever captured the warsong.

Tauren were not in the verge of extermination, only Cairne Clan, and while the trolls were indeed small, all 3 together made a big power lv yes.

the horde as a whole is a war machine, elves are not, their prime was 10 thousands ago

The only reason Orcs are still alive is because the humans deicided to spare them. The rest of the Horde isn't a war machine at all. What do you know that their prime was 10 thousands ago? Why do you keep making claims without any evidences?

[Tanaria]

I want the story of the Night Elves to go back to a time when we first meet them in W3. I think I can speak on the majority of the Night Elf fanbase and say that, that is what the majority would want.
The thing is - we've got Blood Elves, we've got Nightborne, we've got the unplayable High Elves, we've got the unplayable Naga, we've got Void Elves. I mean, are we just trying to lump the Night Elves into a set category that is already covered by 5 other elven-type races? The Night Elf lore is nice, but the "Highborne" story is done. If we've got to introduce night elf mages, then I'm in favor of what somebody said earlier in the thread, where the core night elf mages are Moonguard and don't consider themselves "Highborne."

[Syegfryed]

It was still a huge enemy, and they had Azshara and her highbornes on their side.

and what a huge enemy does to your army? diminish those numbrs considerably

it means jack-shit that night elves were all mighty and powerful 10.000 years ago(of course ignoring their countless allies) what matters is WC3 and later,

the legion was huge and fuck then up, they never recovered, simple as that.

I never said that they were more powerful than the alliance or the Horde together. You are the one assuming without any evidence that in lore they were weak and were their own faction only because gameplay.

~~Faction~~ for gameplay purposes, just like the naga,and the forsaken

This is a fact : He fought 1v1 Azshara and it was a draw.

completely irrelevant to the point made

Same way way Grom didn't destroy the sentinels then. Did chronicles retcon the fact that the Warsong used fel blood to win?

Warsong were winning before Cenarius show up

Hyjal was a mountain. Ashenvale was the forest bordering it where the Night Elves decided to live.

Hyjal was the place of the final battle, where the elves lived, Nordrassill all the things

"As the centuries passed, the night elves’ new society grew strong and expanded throughout the budding forest that they came to call Ashenvale."
The thing about Night Elves living in a giant tree happened with vanilla. Seriously stop claiming things without any source.

expanded yes, they lived in one place, hyjal/nordrassil then later expanded to all those places

Because Forsaken aren't the scourge, you can't compare them with the night elves since they weren't the main playable undead faction from wc3.

The forsaken were their own "faction" too, they still have small numbers anyway, they were the main undead faction of the frozen throne campaign

How do you know about Mountain Giants being useless? That's the same as saying that Tauren, Dwarves, etc. were unimportant.

i didn't say useless i said unimportant

Another lie without source

"another lie without source"

Literally their wc3 description

http://classic.battle.net/war3/night...aingiant.shtml

This is their wc3 description :
"Now the mountain giants have pledged their courage and strength to the night elves' cause"

apparently you are disingenuous , you know the source, but you took only one single line, ignore the rest and said i was lying, very cute

The only reason Orcs are still alive is because the humans deicided to spare them.

completely irrelevant to discussion, can you stop red Herring

The rest of the Horde isn't a war machine at all.

orcs are a race that all live was revolved around combat and war, Taurens are war siege engines of pure brutal strenght, do you think they aren't? sure

What do you know that their prime was 10 thousands ago? Why do you keep making claims without any evidences?

look at the facts, their lost their fountain of magic, their lost their magic tree, their lost immortality, powers, numbers in the war of ancients and the third war, you can't be serious thinking they hold the same power, numbers and influence they had 10.000 years ago, be realistic and stop the elf worshiping.

[eurojust]

Your post is filled with headcanon with 0 backup. You keep denying facts.
For exemple pretending that Mountain Giants are "creeps, mobs, unimportant as siege units" however Taurens are "siege engine of pure brutal strenght"???
Stop with the double standard for a moment.
Also let's remain on the Mountain giant subject : It is specially mentioned that they "pledged their courage and strength to the night elves' cause". Why do you keep making things up like "they weren't part of the night elves, they were just helping against the Legion" when something like this is written?
It's so obvious that you've never played wc3 because not only this text proves that they were part of the night elves BUT Malfurion brought them to chase Illidan. They were first introduced in a battle against Illidan, after the Legion defeat, outside of Kalimdor.

Then you pretend that Night Elves weren't nerfed and retconned into the ground between wc3 and couldn't compete with the Horde and the Alliance is that a bunch of Sentinels died against Grom during one mission??
Yes, they lost their immortality, however it's never mentioned in wc3 that their lost their strenght as well.
I'm not worshipping the elves, i just don't like people who claim that they know about wc3 when they don't. Your entire post about Ashenvale is another evidence of this.

See these kind of post :

Hyjal was the place of the final battle, where the elves lived, Nordrassill all the things

shows how much dishonest you are and keep moving the goal post.
You said that Ashenvale wasn't the main night elf residence which is false, and now you move the goalpost. Did you even play the final mission of wc3? Did you see a lot of Night Elf villages, citizens here?
No. Barely any one lived here. The druids weren't sleeping there. Tyrande and Cenarius were protecting Ashenvale. Of course Hyjal was important but the main place where everyone lived was clearly Ashenvale. Hyjal is a mountain. You know what lived in Hyjal? Owlbears. And Owlbears stay away from populated areas.

[Syegfryed]

Your post is filled with headcanon with 0 backup. You keep denying facts.

youa re just ignoring things with your elf bias

For exemple pretending that Mountain Giants are "creeps, mobs, unimportant as siege units" however Taurens are "siege engine of pure brutal strenght"???
Stop with the double standard for a moment.

Taurens activelly participate in the warcraft 3 campaign story and in the expansion

Did stone giants also activelly participate in the warcraft 3 campaign story?

no, they didn't, where is the double standart?

Also let's remain on the Mountain giant subject : It is specially mentioned that they "pledged their courage and strength to the night elves' cause". Why do you keep making things up like "they weren't part of the night elves, they were just helping against the Legion" when something like this is written?

Because it is written in their descriptions that they only pledged themselves to deal with the Legion

It's so obvious that you've never played wc3

sure, and you of course did, and it is an expert, besides being wrong

Then you pretend that Night Elves weren't nerfed and retconned into the ground between wc3 and couldn't compete with the Horde and the Alliance is that a bunch of Sentinels died against Grom during one mission??

they were nerfed because what happened to then, Wota diminish their numbers annd the third war also did, and they also lost their magic powers with nordrassil gone, and also their immortality.

You keep denying those facts pretending the night elves should have, for some reason, the same power and strength that they had 10.000 years ago before the fight with the Legion, that is completely nonsensical.

Yes, they lost their immortality, however it's never mentioned in wc3 that their lost their strenght as well.

until the Battle of Mount Hyjal, which severely wound the tree and where the night elves lost its powers.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Nordrassil

I'm not worshipping the elves, i just don't like people who claim that they know about wc3 when they don't. Your entire post about Ashenvale is another evidence of this.

Sure

shows how much dishonest you are and keep moving the goal post.

hats what you have being doing the whole post

You said that Ashenvale wasn't the main night elf residence which is false, and now you move the goalpost. Did you even play the final mission of wc3? Did you see a lot of Night Elf villages, citizens here?
No. Barely any one lived here. The druids weren't sleeping there. Tyrande and Cenarius were protecting Ashenvale. Of course Hyjal was important but the main place where everyone lived was clearly Ashenvale. Hyjal is a mountain. You know what lived in Hyjal? Owlbears. And Owlbears stay away from populated areas.

so, basically, Ashenvale is supposed to be the main night elf residence, yet, they got their ass kicked by one clan alone, and yet you claim it was just a small part of the army, regardless of being in their main residence where they were supposed to protect

either their numbers were not that much that you claim or they indeed lived more in other place

[eurojust]

Because it is written in their descriptions that they only pledged themselves to deal with the Legion

NO IT'S NOT.
Stop lying man. Stop being dishonest.
It mentions that have pledged their courage and strength to the night elves' cause AND stand ready to banish the last remnants of the Burning Legion from the world.
Where is it mention tht they pledged themselves only to deal with the legion? Why are you lying so much?
You didn't even play wc3 otherwise you would have known that the introduction of the MG happens in tft, after the Legion defeat, when Malfurion brings them to chase Illidan.
I'm done dealing with you.

[Syegfryed]

NO IT'S NOT.
Stop lying man. Stop being dishonest.
It mentions that have pledged their courage and strength to the night elves' cause AND stand ready to banish the last remnants of the Burning Legion from the world.
Where is it mention tht they pledged themselves only to deal with the legion? Why are you lying so much?
You didn't even play wc3 otherwise you would have known that the introduction of the MG happens in tft, after the Legion defeat, when Malfurion brings them to chase Illidan.
I'm done dealing with you.

its liteally in their descriptions and you are saying im lying LOL, that is borderline delusion.

Benevolent and solitary by nature, the mountain giants have awakened to find that the tranquil world they once helped to shape has become a hectic battlefield of fire and sorrow. Now the mountain giants have pledged their courage and strength to the night elves' cause -- and stand ready to banish the last remnants of the Burning Legion from the world.

http://classic.battle.net/war3/night...aingiant.shtml

pretty simple, they were solitary, they only joined the elves to deal with the Legion, after that is dealt, they will go back with their solitary lives, not keep serving the elves for giggles

[ravenmoon]

My Thoughts

The problem I find here is that their are some people who actually want night elves to be full forest elves - but that isn't what the race is, nor was it ever it's original vision. It was always a dual dark/forest elves, dual arcane and nature magic mainly - and it was never limited to those either, seeing the priesthood can cast light magic (not just arcane, and void too seeing the Night warrior ritual and hearing of rhte Pain Mistresses in the WotA trilogy), and off course the Illidari fel using half demon night elves who seem to have as big a legacy as the preiests, druids and mage like Highborne/Moonguard - even though they are far fewer/

The motivations of those who want the night elves to be forest elves the most seems to come predominantly from Horde elf (mainly Blood elf fans) who want "their elves" to be the magical elves only - they've been the biggest oppsers to night elf fans who want to see more of the arcane side of the night elve developed and some of the pre-sundering splendour visible and a part of the playable faction's story.

I have never seen anything wrong with wanting to see more of the aspects of your race available to it from the lore that you really like ofc, and can only view the opposition as some sort of jealous fan syndrome seeing how ridiculous it gets - arguing about how minor the arcane plays a role and how insignificant it is doesn't remove the arcane from the night elves but rather it proves the point of the night elf fans by highlighting that the devs haven't sufficiently portrayed this aspect of the Night elves enough and therefore need to do more to present a better, fuller picture of the Night elves. This is especially important now fanas are angry at the poor development of the night elves over the course of wow, and demanding that blizzard do a lot better with them. It is ofc in blizzard's best interests to make their night elves continue to be interesting, fascinating and unique - and no one in their right minds things turning them into regular full forest elves present in every fantasy group is the best approach seeing how cliched it is.

There are those who really like the forst elf aspect of the night elves, and can appreciate that part of them without wanting the other sides to be removed, but there are few who want the oarcane side removed..and to those I say that Night elves aren't 100% forest elves, it's just a part of them like 33-50% depending on what angle you look at it.

Now blizzard could ideally give another night elf sub-race as a pure forest elf race, like they did with the Nightborne.. but the main race, the Night elf is fine as it is. The Night elf has a unique vision and unique presentation of the very popular elf type-set. Why would blizzard want to give up everything that is unique about night elves just to make them pure 100% forest elves?? So that Belf and horde fans can brag only their elves are magical? It would be silly.

Nightborne are an allied race, not a core race, they don't steal the arcane legacy or side of the night elves, they are night elves of the highborne and pre-sundering culture that are a playable group on the other faction. Even if they were playable on the alliance, they don't nullify or negate the night elves, anymore than Lightforge draenei somehow make the light wielding draenei redundant, or Highmountain taurne make normal tauren shamanism redundant because it's prevalent in their society.

The core group is a particular jis just a faction of the race, as is the allied race group, and most of the time the core group where the story gives it so, is the wider and more divesre populace where much more of the race is available, while the allied races seem a bit more heavily disposed to one thing.

This is actually quite fine, if blizzard were to introduce a forest elf allied race, it wouldn't stop night elves from having druids , hunters and forest elf type parts to them anymore than the Nightborne, Humans, blood elves or forsaken stop night elvs from having that.

[Tanaria]

The biggest problem with this is that they are no different from the other Elves, if we see a fully fledgling- night elf arcane society.
Silvermoon and Suramar already have this and Night Elves created their own, in trees and forest. The Shen'dralar a such a small sub-faction, it's ridiculous - hell, their city and library were partially destroyed anyway.

I don't want to see a return to night elf arcane wielders, because:
1) we've seen it in the past 2 expansions
2) blizzard should go back and look at W3. This is where the majority loved night elves. We didn't need them to be arcane mages. Druids, Sentinels, Priestesses, Wardens - this was enough.

Making them like Blood Elves and Nightborne is not good progression. Their heritage armor questline should be a focus on W3 and their ancient enemy, the Legion. It shouldn't have anything to do with Highborne/Moonguard or anything "Mage" like, because that's not who they were, in their debut.
Blizzard should focus on what makes night elves unique and different from the other elven races, not try and make them the same and on par with the Elves of Quel'Thalas, with arcane magic, when that story was already told and it made them look like losers.

Plus, Blizzard shouldn't nerf Blood Elven use of Arcane Magic, to make night elf mage fans (a minority, might I add) feel better. Blood Elves have got nothing to do with you and you don't call the shots on what needs nerfing. If this is what you want, then I will argue, because Thalassian Arcane lore is solid. As Alleria, a Farstrider, says - "My people's mastery of the arcane." Why should Quel'Thalas be nerfed because a few people hate the fact that the precious night elves have been bested in a field?

I play real night elf classes, which embolden what Night Elves are from W3: Night Elf Warrior, Night Elf Druid, Night Elf Rogue. Proper classes that suit the night elves well. Show a real emphasis on the way they lived during their debut.

[ravenmoon]

The biggest problem with this is that they are no different from the other Elves, if we see a fully fledgling- night elf arcane society.
Silvermoon and Suramar already have this and Night Elves created their own, in trees and forest. The Shen'dralar a such a small sub-faction, it's ridiculous - hell, their city and library were partially destroyed anyway.

Given that Suramar is night elven - why don't you have a problem with it being quite similar to the Blood elves (as you put it?) Simple. HYPOCRISY - as you demonstrated in the other thread.

You basically want your elves (faction base now) to be the coolest, have the best things, and are content for the other elves to be in the dust. Suramar is already different from Silvermoon, the way the Night elves do cities, temples, and their forest and arcane life is already different from that of the blood elves. Can you point out the differences between the blood elves and the Nightborne, between Suramar and Silvermoon? One look is enough

They are not the same. What you are saying is that you don't want night elves to have gorgeous Night elven cities..

Why don't you apply the same standard to every other race?

I don't see you moaning that Forsaken or Worgen are too similar to humans because they have cities, arcane magic, religion etc all in common.

You are basically trying to make Night elves into some sort of non-elven race by arguing stupidly they have no magic, have no rights to it, and don't do cities or civilization when the OP has done an essay summarising every part of them that has these things - which if you read, amounts to quite a lot.
#

I don't want to see a return to night elf arcane wielders, because:
1) we've seen it in the past 2 expansions
2) blizzard should go back and look at W3. This is where the majority loved night elves. We didn't need them to be arcane mages. Druids, Sentinels, Priestesses, Wardens - this was enough.

Making them like Blood Elves and Nightborne is not good progression. Their heritage armor questline should be a focus on W3 and their ancient enemy, the Legion. It shouldn't have anything to do with Highborne/Moonguard or anything "Mage" like, because that's not who they were, in their debut.
Blizzard should focus on what makes night elves unique and different from the other elven races, not try and make them the same and on par with the Elves of Quel'Thalas, with arcane magic, when that story was already told and it made them look like losers.

Plus, Blizzard shouldn't nerf Blood Elven use of Arcane Magic, to make night elf mage fans (a minority, might I add) feel better. Blood Elves have got nothing to do with you and you don't call the shots on what needs nerfing. If this is what you want, then I will argue, because Thalassian Arcane lore is solid. As Alleria, a Farstrider, says - "My people's mastery of the arcane." Why should Quel'Thalas be nerfed because a few people hate the fact that the precious night elves have been bested in a field?

I play real night elf classes, which embolden what Night Elves are from W3: Night Elf Warrior, Night Elf Druid, Night Elf Rogue. Proper classes that suit the night elves well. Show a real emphasis on the way they lived during their debut.

You don't play a night elef , stop lying you are a blood elf fan, you may have a night elf toon for laughs or to idle about on the alliance side and explore, but your love isn't for the night elf race. You are quite happy stomping on them.

It's the height of your hypocrisy.. you have never seen me once argue for blood elves to be nerfed, uglified or destroyed - I have less bias than you. I find myself posting a lot about night elves because of what people like you get up and say.

Making them like Blood Elves and Nightborne is not good progression.

Listen to this nonsense -- the Nightborne are already night elven, what you are effectively saying is similar to going making the void elves like blood elves is not good progression - which is stupid because they are from the Thalassian racial group, it's what they are.

And if you can acknowledge the existence of the Nightborne, because I don't think even you can be that daft, you can't deny the existence and presence of a night elven civilization.

heir heritage armor questline should be a focus on W3 and their ancient enemy, the Legion. It shouldn't have anything to do with Highborne/Moonguard or anything "Mage" like, because that's not who they were, in their debut.
Blizzard should focus on what makes night elves unique and different from the other elven races, not try and make them the same and on par with the Elves of Quel'Thalas, with arcane magic, when that story was already told and it made them look like losers.

Says who? You? Whatever their heritage armor quest, is up to blizzard.. however it should be something that is appropriate and can apply to Night elven Highborne, Moonguard, Priestesses, Druids and Demon Hunters - because they are all key parts of night elf lore.

However if they make it bare skin armbands with tit covers and loin clothes, i'm not going to argue. Heritage armor doesn't change the lore of the race, nor is it the definition of the race - one day it might be druid themed, another time it might be highborne themed, another time it might be Moon Priest themed, and another time it might be hunter themed. Just because they pick one, doesn't mean all the toher sides ot eh night elves are invalid.

Plus, Blizzard shouldn't nerf Blood Elven use of Arcane Magic, to make night elf mage fans (a minority, might I add) feel better. Blood Elves have got nothing to do with you and you don't call the shots on what needs nerfing.

And there we have it. Spelling out your bias clear for all to see. Do you need reading comprehension lessons? Who is calling for a nerf to blood elves? IS that why you're posting this? You are proving the OPs point - blood elf fans resisting out of jealousy.

If you are jealous of night elf lore, role a night elf and like night elves. No one is stopping you from liking both Night elves and blood elves. This is not a football club or pagan god contest where you have to pick your god or your football club, and need to be loyal to it only for the rest of your life. You are free to love Night elves too, as well as blood elves. You are also free to like the alliance too. Blizzard want you to have more things to love.

And if you are stating that they shouldn't nerf blood elves - I'm like okay, why should they? This topic is about showing you the arcane and magical aspects of the night elves, it's not about the blood elves nor about nerfing them.

but it is saying something if you think that Night elves being improved is nerfing blood elves. It says a lot about you and how deep your bias goes. It's crazy fan syndrome. which basically says "Hey everyone at blizz, don't buff that group because it would make my group look less nice, and I want my group to look the nicest when it comes to magic."

[Tanaria]

Night Elf Mages were a mistake mate, because people like you actually think they are something, when they aren't.
They are like Nightborne Warlocks - a playable mistake, that should never happened.

They are just a trailing shadow behind Human Mages, who are the truest Magi of the Alliance.

And heritage armor...? Why should night elves get something about demon hunters and blood elves didn't? No, they shouldn't get anything about demon hunters, because then that's showing clear bias towards night elf demon hunters, when blood elves are just as viable.
And I do play night elves - just the classes you don't like on them because they relate closely to W3 - the best version of the night elves.

[ravenmoon]

They are like Nightborne Warlocks - a playable mistake, that should never happened.

They are just a trailing shadow behind Human Mages, who are the truest Magi of the Alliance.

And heritage armor...? Why should night elves get something about demon hunters and blood elves didn't? No, they shouldn't get anything about demon hunters, because then that's showing clear bias towards night elf demon hunters, when blood elves are just as viable.
And I do play night elves - just the classes you don't like on them because they relate closely to W3 - the best version of the night elves.

Did you not know the Nightborne are the way they are with the arcane, in a city like that because it's Night elven?

And if you can acknowledge the existence of the Nightborne, because I don't think even you can be that daft, you can't deny the existence and presence of a night elven civilization. So you effectively want the nicest bits of the Kaldorei to exist only on the horde, but not on the alliance, so screw the kaldorei fans who love the Kaldorei civilization and empire lore, who love the Moonguard lore and Highborne lore, who love that side of the Night elves in addition to the priest and druid side - just because they put the Nightborne on the horde, you are now arguing that the night elf (from which the Nightborne comes from) should no longer have that part of them, they should have no development because it looks the same to you.

You remind me of those despicable jealous players a decade ago who kept arguing for only their own classes to have the highest dps - all the stupidest reasons why pure dps should be higher than hybrid dps - creating entire arguments just to fuel their bias and desire for the devs to buff their character - you're doing exactly the same thing but with faction.

If Night elves never had the arcane, never had civilization, never had this side of them and were pure forest elven race, you'd have to a leg to stand on, but Night elves always had this, there have always been arcane wielding night elves, powerful and extremely gifted in the arcane (it is from these night elves that the entire high elf group descend from)

. Night elves in Warcraft lore have their own civilization stadnards, their own style, their own way of doing cities and temples, forest life is not the only thing they know nor is it the only thing they have, they've always had temples, cities, arcane users, divine users, and fel users since Illidan started his mission.

This is why your argument is a bit silly, you are wanting a visible portion of the night elves to cease development and receive no progression because "it's too similar to the blood elves and Nightborne (who are night elven) - one has to wonder why you feel this way, why you don't already see how different the Nightborne are from the blood elves, and that is a part of the main race which is the night elves - just like Highmountain and their entire civilization is part of the main race Tauren, just thtat hey're a different group of it, same with Lightforge draenei and normal draeni, same with void elves and blood elves - human and forsaken. Why you can't see that when it comes to night elves all of a sudden is VERY VERY VERY VERY telling.

They are just a trailing shadow behind Human Mages, who are the truest Magi of the Alliance.

Clearly a horde fan who has no interest in the alliance whatsoever. Highborne night elven magi and Draenei magi would like to have some words with you. so would magic wielding night elven Illidari.

Maybe I should start arguing that blood elves shouldn't have arcane magic and cities because humans already did, and night elves had so long before blood elves.

I should start arguing that because the alliance has cities, civilization, and magic, and that's what they are known for, blizzard shouldn't give that to the horde.

Yes, if I did that, I would sound like a moron.. .but that's exactly what you're doing.

Night Elf Mages were a mistake mate, because people like you actually think they are something, when they aren't.

Oh look everybody, apparently, I am mistaken for thinking night elven mages are an actual thing, and I should completley ignore what the game and the lore tells me, and listen to a Nelf hating horde fan opposed to the faction he considers his enemy and the elven group he hates the most - because every word he says is true, and I should ignore facts and what the game clearly shows and listen to him.


/s

I think I'll pass

[Tanaria]

Except night elf mages are weak.
Just learn to accept that the Highborne of the Elite Circle's descendants have bested current night elf mages.

[ravenmoon]

Conversation Between Fan and Dev
@Tanaria: This is what is going on here:

Misguided Fan:
"oh blizzard, Forsaken, Kul'tirans and Worgen shouldn't have cities, or arcane magic in them, because humans already have this, and if you do that it would be the same"

Blizzard:
"The team did this because Forsaken , Kultrians and worgen are variations of humans - this is why they will share these things. What we did do is make Kul'tiran and Forsaken cities look different. and have different characters and approaches in appropriate ways that define what we want from them"


Misguided Fan:
"oh blizzard, High elves shouldn't have cities or arcane magic in them because blood elves already have this and if you do that it woudl be the same"

Blizzard:
"the team did this because, high elves and void elves are elves from that racial group, this is why they will share these things. What we did do is give High elves a different colour scheme and philsophy, and emphasized a different aspects - but they are supposed to share these because they are elves."

Blizzard:
"When we want to do something entirely and remarkably different we create a totally different race for it. You shouldn't be surprised that all elves share a lot in common, and all Trolls do, as well as all humans. What we do is give variations within the racial groups to make the world more realistic and feel more alive as when groups get very large you get diefferent sub-cultures, variations increase over time and when major events occur. Whie they are similar, night el ves and high elves will have some large differenec both in how hey operate their civilzxiations, in what type of groups and ideolgoies they have and how they approch things.. However they will have many of the same things shared amongst them, but in different ways.

In design, we don't go out of our way to say a group shouldn't have something because the other group has it. We design a story, and le tit organically progress, basied on the history and content, we find that ti is easy to develop and the place a group from a race would find itself in would be quite different from that of another.

This is why there are larger differences between highborne night elves, Illidari night elves and druidic and priestly night elves - that extends also to why there are differences between night elves and high elves - you account for the history. Same with Nightborne and Night elves, Nightborne and blood elves. However there are lots of similarities. ALl elves have arcane magic because it is the origin of the Night elf and all elves come from them. All elves have love for nature because again it is part of the night elf and all elves come from them. However how each group has operated, and developed has varied"

In other words Tanaria, races are the way they are because this sis what they are there for. The developers determine what a race exists for and represents, and maps out its story. You wanting night elves never to have civilization, arcane magic etc is folly because that's not what the night elf is or was designed to be. It wasn't designed to be some total opposite to the blood elf - if it was it wouldn't be an elf, and they would have a different name for it.

They didn't create night elves to only be forest elves, they were dark elves given a forest elf duality to them to make them interesting and unique. Blizzard hasn't done a pure forest elf race, although the Cenarians come pretty close to that. It's like those who expect nighte lves to be savage - again, that's not what the elf type represents, if they wanted a savage race they'd create a worgen or troll - oh , they already did. Sure a night elf can behave savagely, out of character, blood elves do also, but that's not the nature of them.

THey tell you what the night elf is, read chronicles, read their lore, read their introduction in WC3 - these are a benevolent in character very magical race that have an affinity for the arcane and nature. Affinity for the arcane comes from their brithright, they are created from it, affinity froor nature was developed out of their character for loving things and by Cenarius who guided them in the early stages of the races birth.

This is why they have all these aspects to them. They were meant to be a full on proper race, so they have a ddepth and scope that is similar to humans and orcs in the Warcraft story, this is because they were designed with that in mind, and have one of the most comprehensive histories of the Azeroth races.

- - - Updated - - -

Except night elf mages are weak.
Just learn to accept that the Highborne of the Elite Circle's descendants have bested current night elf mages.

YEs, ofc an "enemy" mage would say that, having only partial knowledge an information. It doesn't surprise me that horde fans get so into it, acting so strongly in character.

You do realise that the most renowned elven casters in fact, sorcerors of all time are Night elven right?
you are aware of the history of the night elven arcane users that have developed Azeroths most magical civilziation ever - as you could see in Suramar
You are aware that many night elven magic users like the Shen'dralar and Moonguard have been using the arcaen continuoulsy for over 10 k years - they had no breaks like the high elves and the returned Daranssian highborne (whom you fight in Azshara zone as a hordie)

But sure, let's call them weak without evidence - are you saying that because a Nelf mage toon beat your arse in a BG or Arena or in War mode?

- - - Updated - - -

Noticed you put a picture of Zin'Azshari in your new account, just use your normal MMO account, you don't need to make a new one jsut to argue with the niElf fans.

You do realise Zin'Azsahri is NIGHT ELVEN right - it's the capital of the Night elves. built by night elves using aracne magic wielded by highborne mages and nature magic wielded by Ancient druidic trees - friends of the night elves.

You do realise the entire theme of the night elves is arcane and nature right?

[Blood elves have arcane and light, Void elves are void and arcane - Nightborne are just the arcane side of the night elves, Cenarians are just the nature side of the night elves, Illidari are the demon saide of the night elves]

[Tanaria]

My picture is of Zin-Azshari, because this is the city where the Highborne of Quel'Thalas established their ideas on creating Silvermoon.

The theme we're introduced to in W3 is a theme that relates to their Goddess, Huntresses and Druids. First time I played W3, I would never have known they were an arcane-wielding race. As far as I knew, the only Highborne groups were that of Naga and High/Blood Elves.

And the Illidari isn't only "Night Elven." It's Blood Elven, Naga, Broken and Shivarra. In fact, as far as I recall - in TBC - I only saw 4 night elves. Everyone else was a Blood Elf, Shivarra, Broken or Naga.
And since I play a Blood Elf Demon Hunter - your point fails.

[ravenmoon]

My picture is of Zin-Azshari, because this is the city where the Highborne of Quel'Thalas established their ideas on creating Silvermoon.

At least get the lore right. Silvermoon became a thing long after the destruction of Zin'Azshari, when Darth'remar's group were exiled and eventually found a land that reminded them of Kalimdor. Eventually they built a city there, they hoped to make an elven Kingdom that would surpass that which the night elves had done.

As a blood elf fan that seems to hate night elves, night elven highborne, night elven civilization and night elven arcana, it's a bit silly to have a picture of Zin'Azshari, the night elves' greatest city and their birthplace, the place where there religion was born, their first temple was built, their first civilization spread from. You don't get more Night elven than Zin'Azshari. And the highborne you love so much, they're the epitome of the night elven civilization, the highest caste of their nobles and in the omodern Darnassian society, they handle all the magical and arcane matters for the race.

If you are so enamoured by them, you should at least love them and/or the Nightborne. Just saying.

The theme we're introduced to in W3 is a theme that relates to their Goddess, Huntresses and Druids. First time I played W3, I would never have known they were an arcane-wielding race. As far as I knew, the only Highborne groups were that of Naga and High/Blood Elves.

And the Illidari isn't only "Night Elven." It's Blood Elven, Naga, Broken and Shivarra. In fact, as far as I recall - in TBC - I only saw 4 night elves. Everyone else was a Blood Elf, Shivarra, Broken or Naga.
And since I play a Blood Elf Demon Hunter - your point fails.

I guess because Tauren , worgen and troll are also druid, not to mention Highmountain and Zandalari, we can say druid is not only night elven - but then we were never saying druid, Illidari, Mages, Priests and Hunters were exclusively night elven either were we.

[Tanaria]

Touchy about Blood Elves being descendants from Zin-Azshari? Aww - well don't worry, they were also the Highborne of the Elite Circle.
And I know the lore. It stands to reason that Elves from the former Zin-Azshari, would also take ideas from said city, in building their own city.

Zin-Azshari is also where the Thalassian story starts, with Dath'Remar Sunstrider. So many things are brought to us to show the connection between what would later be known as, Quel'Thalas.
And I do love night elf mage lore - when it was in the past and ancient history, but I won't neglect the errors that they made. Zin-Azshari was very nice and pretty, but it still failed. Azshara and Xavius still summoned the Legion and those choices, caused the Sundering.

And I don't mind telling you, that in the past 30 minutes, I've just made a Nightborne Mage. I've always wanted Night Elf and Blood Elf Mages to have purple eyes, to resemble the arcane, but that doesn't look likely, so I might be maining a Nightborne Mage in Shadowlands.

[ravenmoon]

Touchy about Blood Elves being descendants from Zin-Azshari? Aww - well don't worry, they were also the Highborne of the Elite Circle.

Not touchy at all, lore fact is lore fact. Blood elves had to come from somewhere in the night elf lore, it's actually quite good they come from the Palace Highborne, it gives a darker side to the pristine high elves, and you can sort of go ah hah, showing their true colours when the blood elves went all reckless in TBC. It also explains their unusually high arrogance (I mean most highborne were, but the palace Highborne would have been the most arrogant).

I like that play - ofc not all blood elves went reckless and some came to their senses, then ofc a lot of high elves behave d with complete integrity, as fits their race. Not all blood elves are that arrogant either, but hey, they are moreso than the humbled high elves.

I also don't necessarilyi take the side of the night elves on the exile believe it or not, both sides were correct. and both were wrong. The Hyjal survivor night elves' fundamental knowledge of how arcane worked was wrong as it changed after the implosion (they didn't factor that in for a while) and the purpose of the Legion and its ability to reach Azeroth was also wrong. Darth'remar was correct about his claim ways could be found to use the arcane without endangering the planet from the Legion - but hey, his group because of the past weren't the most trustworthy.

However the abstinence caution made 100% sense too, would you take such a HUGE risk of world destroying aliens coming back, just to have comfortable and fancy living? Isn't going without your cities and coneniences and the high fly life the least you can do to protect the world seeing that your race brought this trouble and you can live afterall without all that stuff..? This is where Malfurion and the druids were coming from (even though they wree fine with living in 100% nature, being druids, but there was actually a real threat, and a very serious one. A lot of night elves, including some former highborne did not agree with Darth'remar, can't blame them, even though the premise concerning magic was wrong - but then the dragonflights didn't know better either and deferred to the Nighte lves on that.. the one flight that could have offered better insight, the blues, were awol during that time.

It was caution in wisdom by the long vigil group and it was a gutsy forward thinking by the Sunstrider group.

And I know the lore. It stands to reason that Elves from the former Zin-Azshari, would also take ideas from said city, in building their own city.

Ah, yes, finally something we can agree on. YEs, there are some insipirations from night elf architecture in blood elven one, not many, but they are there. This has to be the case anyway, because they are elves, and one group comes from another. There have to be similarities.

Notice how the circular buildings are very similar to the gazebo type structures in Darnassus, that are also repeated in far more elaborate versions in Suramar, you see a sencse of these in Silvermoon too.

Most of Silvermoon is differnet ofc, the floating towers, the shape and structure of the Palace in Silvermoon and the buildings speak of a total city, and is entirely unique to the Thalassians, but you would notice some of the homes in the country bear some sembalance sometimes to some of the night elven stuff.

Also note that night elves and blood elves share the same country lodge styles. The Farstrider lodge in Loch Modan, and the one in Hinterlands, are identical to the night elf buildings we see in Auberdine. These are not long vigil architecture, there is no such thing, except if you account for the wooden tree homes in Val'Sharah and Aldrassil, or the druid HQ in Darnassus, those lodges date back from before the sundering, as the one in Winterspring shows. it's just how the Elves do rural lodges.

Notice how the night elves have wooden and marble versions of the same type of buildings but when you upgrade to city like structures as seen in their ruins, the temples in Daranssus, and in Suramar and Zin'Azshari, you get that very Greco-Roman style - where as the blood elf one tends to be a bit more unique than that.

The ruins of Zin'Azshari, are like those of Nar'thalas, and in Suramar you can see a pristine version of a slightly altered architecture of that, that's not surprising, Dire Maul, i.e. Eldre'thalas also looks a bit unique to many of the night elf ruins - but hey there are different styles. THe warbringers in Zin'Azshari when compared to Nar'thalas ruins and most of the ruins using the newer architecture design that came in 7.0 seems to be th most common style of Night elven cities, with the likes of Eldre'thalas and Suramar being a little bit more unique. Silvermoon though is different enough to be it's own style from a different race, even if it is actualy just an off shoot elven race, that' become a major race due to their achievements and influence on humans.

Zin-Azshari is also where the Thalassian story starts, with Dath'Remar Sunstrider. So many things are brought to us to show the connection between what would later be known as, Quel'Thalas.

Actulaly it is not where the Thalassian story starts, the Thalsssian story starts 3,000 years after the fall of Zin'Azsahri i.e. when the Sunstrider Highborne are exiled. Thalassian, high elf, Quelt'halas, Silvermoon, none of these exist, nor are they planned for or anticipated until the exiles were kicked out by the Druids for breaking the ban. The Thalassian language (a dialect of Darnassian), the high home in the north part of Eastern Kingdoms, these all come and are developed after that.

The high elf story starts when they start chainging into high elves, and this is when that highborne group are banished. Before that everyone is night elven, it is night elf story. Those that would eventually become high elves are all night elves here, and it is part of the Night elf lore and set up.

High elves come from night elves, it is not surprising that Night elf lore includes some of the very individuals that give birth to the high elf race. The Vrykul that give birth to humans are Vrykul not human, although they are the proginotrs of the humans, the part of the story that involves them is Vrykul lore, mianly, not human lore because the human story starts with the humans.


The best you can say is stuff to do with Zin'Azshari is blood elf pre-history. But it is night elf lore.

And I do love night elf mage lore - when it was in the past and ancient history, but I won't neglect the errors that they made. Zin-Azshari was very nice and pretty, but it still failed. Azshara and Xavius still summoned the Legion and those choices, caused the Sundering.
.

Well, so what is your problem with liking the current night elf mages? They are the same ones that were there 10k years ago in the part of the lore you liked. Sure, the cities are mostly in ruins, but one of them, Suramar isn't.

Whether it's a Shen'dralar, a Moonguard, or Darnassian Highborne that has returned to his highborne roots after 10k years, it is the same individuals back then and now. Many who have now seen the error of their former addiction and now use the arcane in balance - such are the harsh lessons one will learn if hubris takes over. You know the saying, pride goes before a fall.

And I don't mind telling you, that in the past 30 minutes, I've just made a Nightborne Mage. I've always wanted Night Elf and Blood Elf Mages to have purple eyes, to resemble the arcane, but that doesn't look likely, so I might be maining a Nightborne Mage in Shadowlands

I applaud you. AT first I didn't like night elves being playable on the horde, I thought keep purple elves alliance, and Thalassian elves horde. but, there are some advantages for night elves being accessible on the horde.

If you like night elves, but don't like the alliance, you can do that.. same with the Thalassian, although because void elves are all purple it's not like you get a pale skinned elf but hey..

Another advantage is that with night elves on the horde now, we can look forward to better night elf stories and novels, because partisan horde players can relate to night elf material via the Nightborne. This was capitalised on in Zin'Azshari, with Thalyssra and SHandris leading both factions. it would have been bad if it was a blood elf, but worse if it was an orc or forsaken.

Sadly, it was bad for the alliance that Jaina and not a Highborne like Mordant Evenshade was used, or Tyrande herself wasn't there - seeing the history with Azshara, and it would have been nice for Tyrande to go round 2 with Thalyssra -

"ahemm.. Thalyssra, you wanted the world to see you as defenders not conquereors.. yet you join the horde, how can you call yourself that seeing what the banshee ordered on our people? Some of these Night elves defended Suramar, came from Suramar, and their heroism bought our world deliverance in the WotA - how could you Thalyssra"

That would have been far more interesting than what we got.. Shandris throwing a hissy fit over the sins of the palace highborne - directed at a highborne that was not complicit to any of it, knowing full well she is allied to other Highbonre whom were also not complicit to the Queen's betrayal of the Night elves. IT was such a wasted opportunity.

Would have loved to see Tyrande v Azshara round 2. My line up would have been Tyrande, Mordant Evenshade and Shandries (instead of Jaina and Genn) for alliance. Then Thalyssra, Lor'themar and Occuleth for horde.

[Tanaria]

[LEFT]
Not touchy at all, lore fact is lore fact. Blood elves had to come from somewhere in the night elf lore, it's actually quite good they come from the Palace Highborne, it gives a darker side to the pristine high elves, and you can sort of go ah hah, showing their true colours when the blood elves went all reckless in TBC. It also explains their unusually high arrogance (I mean most highborne were, but the palace Highborne would have been the most arrogant).

I like that play - ofc not all blood elves went reckless and some came to their senses, then ofc a lot of high elves behave d with complete integrity, as fits their race. Not all blood elves are that arrogant either, but hey, they are moreso than the humbled high elves.

I also don't necessarilyi take the side of the night elves on the exile believe it or not, both sides were correct. and both were wrong. The Hyjal survivor night elves' fundamental knowledge of how arcane worked was wrong as it changed after the implosion (they didn't factor that in for a while) and the purpose of the Legion and its ability to reach Azeroth was also wrong. Darth'remar was correct about his claim ways could be found to use the arcane without endangering the planet from the Legion - but hey, his group because of the past weren't the most trustworthy.

However the abstinence caution made 100% sense too, would you take such a HUGE risk of world destroying aliens coming back, just to have comfortable and fancy living? Isn't going without your cities and coneniences and the high fly life the least you can do to protect the world seeing that your race brought this trouble and you can live afterall without all that stuff..? This is where Malfurion and the druids were coming from (even though they wree fine with living in 100% nature, being druids, but there was actually a real threat, and a very serious one. A lot of night elves, including some former highborne did not agree with Darth'remar, can't blame them, even though the premise concerning magic was wrong - but then the dragonflights didn't know better either and deferred to the Nighte lves on that.. the one flight that could have offered better insight, the blues, were awol during that time.

It was caution in wisdom by the long vigil group and it was a gutsy forward thinking by the Sunstrider group.

Ah, yes, finally something we can agree on. YEs, there are some insipirations from night elf architecture in blood elven one, not many, but they are there. This has to be the case anyway, because they are elves, and one group comes from another. There have to be similarities.

Notice how the circular buildings are very similar to the gazebo type structures in Darnassus, that are also repeated in far more elaborate versions in Suramar, you see a sencse of these in Silvermoon too.

Most of Silvermoon is differnet ofc, the floating towers, the shape and structure of the Palace in Silvermoon and the buildings speak of a total city, and is entirely unique to the Thalassians, but you would notice some of the homes in the country bear some sembalance sometimes to some of the night elven stuff.

Also note that night elves and blood elves share the same country lodge styles. The Farstrider lodge in Loch Modan, and the one in Hinterlands, are identical to the night elf buildings we see in Auberdine. These are not long vigil architecture, there is no such thing, except if you account for the wooden tree homes in Val'Sharah and Aldrassil, or the druid HQ in Darnassus, those lodges date back from before the sundering, as the one in Winterspring shows. it's just how the Elves do rural lodges.

Notice how the night elves have wooden and marble versions of the same type of buildings but when you upgrade to city like structures as seen in their ruins, the temples in Daranssus, and in Suramar and Zin'Azshari, you get that very Greco-Roman style - where as the blood elf one tends to be a bit more unique than that.

The ruins of Zin'Azshari, are like those of Nar'thalas, and in Suramar you can see a pristine version of a slightly altered architecture of that, that's not surprising, Dire Maul, i.e. Eldre'thalas also looks a bit unique to many of the night elf ruins - but hey there are different styles. THe warbringers in Zin'Azshari when compared to Nar'thalas ruins and most of the ruins using the newer architecture design that came in 7.0 seems to be th most common style of Night elven cities, with the likes of Eldre'thalas and Suramar being a little bit more unique. Silvermoon though is different enough to be it's own style from a different race, even if it is actualy just an off shoot elven race, that' become a major race due to their achievements and influence on humans.

Actulaly it is not where the Thalassian story starts, the Thalsssian story starts 3,000 years after the fall of Zin'Azsahri i.e. when the Sunstrider Highborne are exiled. Thalassian, high elf, Quelt'halas, Silvermoon, none of these exist, nor are they planned for or anticipated until the exiles were kicked out by the Druids for breaking the ban. The Thalassian language (a dialect of Darnassian), the high home in the north part of Eastern Kingdoms, these all come and are developed after that.

The high elf story starts when they start chainging into high elves, and this is when that highborne group are banished. Before that everyone is night elven, it is night elf story. Those that would eventually become high elves are all night elves here, and it is part of the Night elf lore and set up.

High elves come from night elves, it is not surprising that Night elf lore includes some of the very individuals that give birth to the high elf race. The Vrykul that give birth to humans are Vrykul not human, although they are the proginotrs of the humans, the part of the story that involves them is Vrykul lore, mianly, not human lore because the human story starts with the humans.


The best you can say is stuff to do with Zin'Azshari is blood elf pre-history. But it is night elf lore.


Well, so what is your problem with liking the current night elf mages? They are the same ones that were there 10k years ago in the part of the lore you liked. Sure, the cities are mostly in ruins, but one of them, Suramar isn't.

Whether it's a Shen'dralar, a Moonguard, or Darnassian Highborne that has returned to his highborne roots after 10k years, it is the same individuals back then and now. Many who have now seen the error of their former addiction and now use the arcane in balance - such are the harsh lessons one will learn if hubris takes over. You know the saying, pride goes before a fall.


I applaud you. AT first I didn't like night elves being playable on the horde, I thought keep purple elves alliance, and Thalassian elves horde. but, there are some advantages for night elves being accessible on the horde.

If you like night elves, but don't like the alliance, you can do that.. same with the Thalassian, although because void elves are all purple it's not like you get a pale skinned elf but hey..

Another advantage is that with night elves on the horde now, we can look forward to better night elf stories and novels, because partisan horde players can relate to night elf material via the Nightborne. This was capitalised on in Zin'Azshari, with Thalyssra and SHandris leading both factions. it would have been bad if it was a blood elf, but worse if it was an orc or forsaken.

Sadly, it was bad for the alliance that Jaina and not a Highborne like Mordant Evenshade was used, or Tyrande herself wasn't there - seeing the history with Azshara, and it would have been nice for Tyrande to go round 2 with Thalyssra -

"ahemm.. Thalyssra, you wanted the world to see you as defenders not conquereors.. yet you join the horde, how can you call yourself that seeing what the banshee ordered on our people? Some of these Night elves defended Suramar, came from Suramar, and their heroism bought our world deliverance in the WotA - how could you Thalyssra"

That would have been far more interesting than what we got.. Shandris throwing a hissy fit over the sins of the palace highborne - directed at a highborne that was not complicit to any of it, knowing full well she is allied to other Highbonre whom were also not complicit to the Queen's betrayal of the Night elves. IT was such a wasted opportunity.

Would have loved to see Tyrande v Azshara round 2. My line up would have been Tyrande, Mordant Evenshade and Shandries (instead of Jaina and Genn) for alliance. Then Thalyssra, Lor'themar and Occuleth for horde.

My problem with Night Elf Mages is that, for me, I don't get the idea of "Night Elf" from them.
To me, Night Elves are savages.

That's not a hate-term. That's just what I saw in W3 and that's what I want to see.

Everyone keeps saying that playable night elf mages have ruined the uniqueness of the night elves and I agree with them. They are nothing more than copy-paste tryhards that the Blood Elves have already mastered.
That's why I only play 3 main night elves W3-like classes, plus a night elf death knight for added savagery and controversy.

And let me say, if Blood Elves with purple eyes become a thing, then the nightborne mage will be dropped for her instead, as Blood Elves are the truest and closest thing for players to see, when they think of an Elven Mage.

And also - Nightborne should never be Alliance. Why should Thalyssra stand with the faction that didn't even want to know her, after they disposed of Elisande? No, Thalyssra chose to side with Silvermoon and the Horde because it was the efforts of Lor'themar and Liadrin, who maintained contact with her and the Nightborne. The Night Elves and High Elves just left - no word, just sheer ignorance and yet they come out with surprised Pikachu faces when Suramar stands with the Horde.
And don't say "well she thought their kin from Kalimdor would be obvious" and purposefully leave it at that, because in the same breathe, she also says "but their arrogance and mistrust, soon proved otherwise." The Sin'dorei stood by the Shal'dorei, whilst the night elves wanted nothing to do with them.

[Hellspawn]

In the end night elfs would have had a problem with the night born nobility, you could have written the night born story in a way that they would have put an end to their noble people but they did not. I think night elf mages are fine, even Orcs got mages.. and who is more savage then orcs!?
Night Elfs for most of WoW were not the savage elf race that they were with WC3. With BFA they made the first step back into that direction and they might continue it with the night warrior stuff. Its kind of interesting that they now need to introduce some new dark thing to correct course with the race so something they should have been for all of wow.
Night Elfs are no savage, they just have a fighting style that is savage.
I can imagine a mage with a savage/reckless fighting style.
But if the warfront is any kind of indicator how night elf mages are portrayed most of the interaction will be with Shen'dralar which bring in their nobility customs.
Currently its hard to say which directions it will go, but as soon as we know what happens with the night elfs in shadowlands we can probably better evaluate how Shen'dralar and mages fits into that. What probably will always be the case: they will be never more then the sidekick in the night elf story telling.