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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by pr0fite View Post
    So i came back a Week ago after i took a break Shortly before the Eternal Palace Patch (8.2 - 8.2.5 i think)

    And i totally got overwhelmed with all the stuff i have to do to get back into the Game (cleared BoD on Mythic aswell as pushed ~20keys)

    Ranking up Essences takes so fucking long (5 Weeks for Conflict and Strive if your Arena rating is under 1600 and i cant manage to break the 1600 and it would still take 3 Weeks, yeah i suck at PvP, but never had that much trouble getting to 1600)

    I'm kinda lucky i have a friend that carried me through my 15+ Key for the Weekly Chest aswell as Nya'Lotha HC with his Guild, but still since 1 1/2 Weeks i'm doing nothing else than Dailys (Yay Lucid Dreams is pretty much mandatory for Fire).

    Or am i Missing something, since if not the New player Experience in BfA is utter Garbage, no Wonder WoW dosnt get any New Players :S
    I returned after 8.3, having stoped after BoD mythic progression, i just ignored pvp essences.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    So I lost because you claim so? How does that even work? Can I reverse this and tell you that using "you lost" argument implies that you have nothing to retaliate against my argument therefore "you lost" ?
    My argument is that "back in the good days" WoW had mirror systems to what we have, except more deterministic ways to get it but slow catch up systems existed and it wasn't I just came back after leaving in 2.1 patch and I came back for sunwell in 2.4 or whatever that was. You still grinded slow stuff. Not even talking about new players. New players were months behind any meaningful endgame content.
    If I now decided to join Classic, I would have a megaton of attunements to do before I even can do anything not even talking about 600g for a mount or hours and hours of leveling professions. You would literally just sit and wait for that tedious crafting bar to be complete up to the WotLK where they made it to the "ok speed" and you didn't have to watch full movie before you finished crafting 20 pairs of pants to get those 5 levels of tailoring like you had to in pre-wotlk. Game is way more accessible and catch up friendly than ever before and with the corruption changes recently there is no reason to moan about "I have to do dalies /cry". Collectiong 5000 gold for a flying was way more shit than two weeks of dalies where you would have to do 40mins of questing a day in one of the best zones - mechagon. Nazjatar is case by case.
    Right and what I am saying is those deterministic systems far outstripped anything we currently have with these dull grinds. The fact your now shifting the argument from power to utility with things like flight speed shows your giving ground yet again...

    These new time gate and grind gating systems are harmful to the game. It is time to unshackle the more skilled players of wow once more and just let them enjoy the game.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    corruptions are still rng. vendor only has limited stock that changes twice a week and it could be rank 1 corruption, could be rank 2 or 3 and it could be a set of corruptions that is pretty meh so its not a matter of you just gathering enough currency and buying things outright, its STILL time gated via rng of a listing.
    But that is a vendor and you can definitely get all of the corruptions and as of different ranks, are you really thinking that "well rank 3 mastery gives me 115 dps/per corruption point but rank 1 mastery gives me only 108 dps/per corruption point" is very good argument against it? I do understand what you are saying but we now can buy sockets and corruption effects. It's so much less RNG than anything else since it got out of hand in legion/wod that it's crazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    Right and what I am saying is those deterministic systems far outstripped anything we currently have with these dull grinds. The fact your now shifting the argument from power to utility with things like flight speed shows your giving ground yet again...

    These new time gate and grind gating systems are harmful to the game. It is time to unshackle the more skilled players of wow once more and just let them enjoy the game.
    How are these time gates worse than grinding gates? how a 40minutes a day for 10 days is worse than 800minutes of grinding? Everything in wow as always either time or grind gated. My argument is that catch up mechanics currently are far more superior than what we had back in the days. Your failure to comprehend this is amazing.

  4. #124
    I havent played seriously since WoD and decided to come back recently and raid again. Since id pop in every expansion i have a character or 2 to max lvl but hardly anything done and feel extremely overwhelmed. No allied races unlocked, no flying unlocked, barely even know where to go to get started. Its gotten to the point where im considering starting an alt and going from there.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    But that is a vendor and you can definitely get all of the corruptions and as of different ranks, are you really thinking that "well rank 3 mastery gives me 115 dps/per corruption point but rank 1 mastery gives me only 108 dps/per corruption point" is very good argument against it? I do understand what you are saying but we now can buy sockets and corruption effects. It's so much less RNG than anything else since it got out of hand in legion/wod that it's crazy.

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    How are these time gates worse than grinding gates? how a 40minutes a day for 10 days is worse than 800minutes of grinding? Everything in wow as always either time or grind gated. My argument is that catch up mechanics currently are far more superior than what we had back in the days. Your failure to comprehend this is amazing.
    Your argument is that leveling used to take a while... on the topic about end game grind.

    It isn't that I can't "comprehend" what your saying. You just don't have anything of substance to argue,

  6. #126
    That's an old MMORPG game. You can't come back to LoL or Pubg without of weeks of practice and time investment to get all ahead of the curve stuff back into the system again and we have a beast of a game here. You can't get into OSRS or RS3 at that matter and not be overwhelmed by new stuff there either. It's not a plug and play game genre.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    For me wow is a game where you do challenging group content. And when I'm in a group, I want to be a plus contributor. I want to be a guy who's helping push the group over the top.

    The way the game works right now, there are a lot of small things you can do that add up to a huge difference. If you do none of them, you're going to be very weak.
    But by the same token, doing all of them is overkill.

    And that's really the crux of it. There is a vast difference in effort between what the game requires you to do, and what it allows you to do. This has been done on purpose in order to accommodate a wide spectrum of players, and that is a good thing. A very good thing.

    All it requires is that you figure out what kind of player you want to be and how much effort you are prepared to put into the game.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    Your argument is that leveling used to take a while... on the topic about end game grind.

    It isn't that I can't "comprehend" what your saying. You just don't have anything of substance to argue,
    So you picked one of the arguments of what I have mentioned.
    You stated that "back in the old days game was better" and leveling back in the day was a MAJOR aspect of the game as endgame is currently, so I weaved that into my other arguments that "back when the game was good" it was not easier to get back into a game than it is now which is directly related to the topic as WoW was never a friendly game to "plug and play" unless you were very casual and if that is the case, very casual players don't tend to stress out on not having rank 3 CnS on week one so they can blast that 100 parse on Nzoth.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    So you picked one of the arguments of what I have mentioned.
    You stated that "back in the old days game was better" and leveling back in the day was a MAJOR aspect of the game as endgame is currently, so I weaved that into my other arguments that "back when the game was good" it was not easier to get back into a game than it is now which is directly related to the topic as WoW was never a friendly game to "plug and play" unless you were very casual and if that is the case, very casual players don't tend to stress out on not having rank 3 CnS on week one so they can blast that 100 parse on Nzoth.
    Your trying to compare apples to oranges while im comparing apples to apples.

    How long it took to level is irrelevant to how long it takes you catch up at end game.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by shuubu View Post
    That's kind of impossible to tell yet.
    No, it is definitely better. You won't have to worry about corrupted items or the cloak or stuff like that. It will be a thing of the past and you can chose where to quest.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by pr0fite View Post
    So i came back a Week ago after i took a break Shortly before the Eternal Palace Patch (8.2 - 8.2.5 i think)

    And i totally got overwhelmed with all the stuff i have to do to get back into the Game (cleared BoD on Mythic aswell as pushed ~20keys)

    Ranking up Essences takes so fucking long (5 Weeks for Conflict and Strive if your Arena rating is under 1600 and i cant manage to break the 1600 and it would still take 3 Weeks, yeah i suck at PvP, but never had that much trouble getting to 1600)

    I'm kinda lucky i have a friend that carried me through my 15+ Key for the Weekly Chest aswell as Nya'Lotha HC with his Guild, but still since 1 1/2 Weeks i'm doing nothing else than Dailys (Yay Lucid Dreams is pretty much mandatory for Fire).

    Or am i Missing something, since if not the New player Experience in BfA is utter Garbage, no Wonder WoW dosnt get any New Players :S
    That's because Blizzard filled the game with gimmicky fluff. I bought a month recently and I don't even know half of whats going on, its so full of bloat. WoW used to be straight forward and simple. Now its a complicated mess that adds new gimmicks with each expansion.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    Your trying to compare apples to oranges while im comparing apples to apples.

    How long it took to level is irrelevant to how long it takes you catch up at end game.
    I have stated, you took ONE of my arguments.
    How long it takes catch up? In three weeks a person can be up and ready to kill mythic Nzoth. In two weeks person can be ready to clear anything up to nzoth and in one week a person can be ready to run +15s timed quite easy. Ofcourse this takes some help from guild of friends as pugs don't let people into +15 that easy. That is not an average by any means and if you played solo you would probably take 2 weeks to get into +15 timed farming rather than just doing some +15 untimed and up to 3 weeks to clear HC raid by solo pugging. How far could you get within three weeks back in the days? With guilds help pretty much the same as scenario one. W/O? well... I have never done that solo, but entering a raid and killing a boss got you locked, if raid sucked - good bye sweet loot you couldn't tryhard your way into killing each boss with a different raid until you have cleared the raid. You were left to farm bagde gear to get loot which was not giving you enough gear score to get into a "full clear" raid as raids would inspect people at dalaran stairs. You went into low quality raid team, wiped on 4th boss, possibly got an item which allowed you to get into a better raid next week. So you just jo-jo like that as a solo player for few months I guess depending on luck.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    But that is a vendor and you can definitely get all of the corruptions and as of different ranks, are you really thinking that "well rank 3 mastery gives me 115 dps/per corruption point but rank 1 mastery gives me only 108 dps/per corruption point" is very good argument against it? I do understand what you are saying but we now can buy sockets and corruption effects. It's so much less RNG than anything else since it got out of hand in legion/wod that it's crazy.

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    How are these time gates worse than grinding gates? how a 40minutes a day for 10 days is worse than 800minutes of grinding? Everything in wow as always either time or grind gated. My argument is that catch up mechanics currently are far more superior than what we had back in the days. Your failure to comprehend this is amazing.
    I'm saying that it can take time for the corruption you actualy need to even show up on a vendor. a vendor that has full list of items at all times =/= vendor that has some of the items some of that time.

    and yes, timegates are worse then just being able to sit down and get it done. before you had an option of going at your own pace. now blizzard sets the pace. granted. this is not the first expansion they started doing it. but they did kinda.. up it a bit. there is a LOT to catch up on, unless you go "screw it" and turn full casual.
    Last edited by Witchblade77; 2020-05-25 at 02:29 PM.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post

    and yes, timegates are worse then just being able to sit down and get it done. before you had an option of going at your own pace. now blizzard sets the pace.
    I am not arguing which system is better as lower requirement with a sensible gating is ok for me (I got strife before I got blood) as to get strife it took me max 5hrs of active play (conquest point gathering) while blood probably took me 20 hours if not more. I would rather have done two hours of PvP every week for 5 weeks and others like it to be done and dusted in two sittings. What I am arguing that catching up currently is easier and requires less play time than before.

  15. #135
    "I took a break for a year and now there's so much to do wtf bad game?"

    Wouldn't it be worse if you came back after that long time away and had almost nothing new to do? Sure there's a lot of grinds and if you take that much time off then it stacks up. But that's how it is with anything though.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    "I took a break for a year and now there's so much to do wtf bad game?"

    Wouldn't it be worse if you came back after that long time away and had almost nothing new to do? Sure there's a lot of grinds and if you take that much time off then it stacks up. But that's how it is with anything though.
    Yep, that is the damn fun part of the game, to discover what all those things do.

    These people never played PoE or other truly complex games.
    I played couple years back PoE and got back to it recently. Good lord, betrayal was more complicated that all wow systems combined.
    And that was just one of many system they had.

    Alternative is:

    "Ah it's the same old shit, nothing to do."

  17. #137
    Banned Zremax's Avatar
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    Pretty much in my opinion. I can relate to you.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    I was referring to how you didn't have all of these arbitrary time gates bfa has with its additional systems tacked onto gearing.
    There's been time gated shit since literally vanilla. What the fuck are you talking about

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    I find this a weird position to take. How does grinding content you can barely lose count as playing the game over doing content that tests your skills?

    If they locked this power behind heroic or even mythic raids it would be one thing but most of it comes from mindless content like isles or dailies. That isn't some feat of skill but ability to endure tedium. WoW's goal for new players shouldnt be to bore them to tears so they cant see the unsub button.
    90%+ of their player base are casual players, not everything can "test your skill" and maintain that player base. Again, short of just handing you the best essences I'm not sure what else you expect. It's much much quicker to obtain those things now than it was before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scvd View Post
    "Time is money, friend" as they say

    and it's disgusting how they use it
    Yes, truly disgusting that a company wants to make money. Unreal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    The alternative is to not overwhelm the players with grindy content in an attempt to satisfy the 2% of the playerbase that has nothing else going on in their lives but WoW.

    I was playing since bfa launched and I gave up because I couldn't even keep up with the current grind. I can't imagine the workload required to catch up. Had it not been for Classic, I would not still be a monthly paying customer.

    Less is actually more sometimes. Let's see if they actually listened when Shadowlands arrives.
    Uhh, the 2% of the player base that does cutting edge raiding? You think they're the ones who want that type of grindy content? Are you delusional? It's the whiny casual players who keep complaining about "there's not content!!!!" While they struggle to clear LFR that that type of content is for.

    It's hilarious to me that people whine about grindy content but somehow think classic is better. While completely unnecessary to clear the "hardest" raids in classic, there is much more grinding involved if you were to actually min/max your character for every raid in classic compared to now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    I agree gear should really cap out at 425 outside of group content and there shouldn't be these "events" that hand out powerful gear. People should be doing harder content to gear not simply log in everyday.
    You're contradicting yourself and you don't even realize it. Hilarious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    "I took a break for a year and now there's so much to do wtf bad game?"

    Wouldn't it be worse if you came back after that long time away and had almost nothing new to do? Sure there's a lot of grinds and if you take that much time off then it stacks up. But that's how it is with anything though.
    He's mad the game is perfectly designed around his life like every other whiny fuck on these forums.

  19. #139
    Unless you are doing high-end content you can play just fine with random Essence/Azerite/Corruption. I decided to ignore the systems and just log in for Mythic+/Raids/BGs equiping whatever gear I got and it's a-ok.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    I am not arguing which system is better as lower requirement with a sensible gating is ok for me (I got strife before I got blood) as to get strife it took me max 5hrs of active play (conquest point gathering) while blood probably took me 20 hours if not more. I would rather have done two hours of PvP every week for 5 weeks and others like it to be done and dusted in two sittings. What I am arguing that catching up currently is easier and requires less play time than before.
    easier, maybe, depending on how you view easy. longer - almost certainly. and there really is a ton of different things all over the place, it can be overwhelming. it used to be more... focused if you will. easier to figure out a course of action as returning player. the game is a LOT more scattered nowadays, while also time gating you and for me, I'd rather have an OPTION of one sitting OR being able to spread it across multiple play sessions. there isn't that option anymore. its kinda amazing how the game can be simultaneously scattered, while also being very rigid about how it lets you do things. meh. as another recent poster, I took a look at it all, and decided that its just not worth the bother, outside of the basics (like unlocking allied races and stuff, and I know rep requirement is going away with expac, but I'd rather get this now, so that expac stays for expac things, with a bit less catching up on old content)

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