Why is it a bad thing that the Blood Knights got redeemed?

[Encaitar29]

[...]

It's also worth remembering that the night elves attempted to kick the blood elves when they were at their lowest, attempting to sabotage the arcane sanctums of Quel'Thalas that acted as one of the few fonts of arcane energy when very young, very old and very sick blood elves were dying of withdrawal.

So, even after the burning of Teldrassil, many Blood Knights may have deemed it just to continue a campaign against the night elves out of some belief in righteous vengeance.

Yes, pretty much that, it's even mentioned in the novels (not specifically by the Blood Knights, but by that rogue that tried to kill Malfurion). That, and the fact of the HE exile by the NE when they didn't wish to give up Arcane. And after seeing Suramar, would you blame them for not willing to give up that kind of lifestyle for sitting in the trees just because their new self proclaimed leadership decided to outlaw Arcane magic, as they believed it will always draw demons to them (which technically wasn''t true, as we now know why Burning Legion invaded Azeroth and that it had nothing to do with the Night Elves or even the Well of Eternity, but Sargeras' obsession with the World Soul).
And please stop putting XXI Century real life morality into the fantasy game setting and acting as if Burning of Teldrassil was some act of untold evil and not just typical war effort gone wrong. Obviously it was evil and wrong, but I don't think much of the Horde forces would bother with killing civilians during war time, when neither of sides cared about refraining from such actions. The problem with the Burning is incoherent story telling by Blizzard which sometimes portrays characters and their actions as if it was a PG-18 game setting with complex, multidimensional dilemmas and sometimes as if it was a Carebear island PG-3 with 2D simplistic stuff and dualistic Sylvanas - bad, Goldenhaired boy - Good.

[Schattenlied]

The ability to wield the Light is all about strength of faith. If a paladin's faith is strong enough, they can use the Light to do anything, including some pretty morally reprehensible acts.

I'm well aware, hence the importance of the word redeemed.

The Blood Knight campaign in Arathi happened before the burning of Teldrassil.

ROFL

No, it didn't... The burning of Teldrassil happened at the start of the goddamn war.

Literally go read the elegy stories.

Liadrin and her Blood Knights were following a legitimately chosen Warchief

LUL "legitimately chosen", if you mean deceived by the jailer into doing it the sure, he "legitimately chose" her.

into battle against the faction's long-standing foes.

During a time where the factions were not at war, when there was no cause to start a war, while the planet is fucking dying and both factions have better things to do.

though he took the crown by nefarious means, the rightful heir to the Stromgarde throne, Galen Trollbane

If he had to take the crown through nefarious means (read: murdering his father, something that usually deprives one of their right to inheritance) he isn't the rightful heir. He committed regicide and patricide, treason, to usurp the crown, he was a usurper and a traitor, which is about as far from being the "rightful" heir as you can get.

So, it could be argued that the Horde campaign in the Arathi Highlands was a defensive one.

In a war they started for no reason.

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(which technically wasn''t true, as we now know why Burning Legion invaded Azeroth and that it had nothing to do with the Night Elves or even the Well of Eternity, but Sargeras' obsession with the World Soul).

He only knew the location of Azeroth because of the Highborne's abuse of the Well of Eternity. He was already looking for it, but that's what showed him the way.

[Saltysquidoon]

Police state with mind control? Gone, Bob's a chill dude. Fel magic? Unnecessary, and later retconned to not having been used at all anyway, those giant crystals of demon magic were actually there all along and the blood elves didn't know they were evil. Addiction to magic as driving motivator?

N...noooooooooooooooooooooo! You can't just say retcon it was never explicitly stated, i.i..it's just expanding the lore not changing it. They were good bois! The Titan's PoV!

[Powerogue]

It's always a fine line. Redeeming a character and finishing their arc is a fun story to tell, but WoW isn't just a "tell it and you're done" story, it keeps going, like an endless series of sequels. Then what do you do with them?

Anybody seen Velen since Legion?

[Combatbutler]

Anybody seen Velen since Legion?

He isn't important until it turns out we have to fight against the light and he can have another crisis.

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This seems to be a popular opinion in discussion regarding Lady Liadrin and the Blood Knights -- that it was a bad thing that the Blood Knights are no longer enslaving naaru, and that it's bad that they're no longer "edgier" paladins or whatever.

I don't understand that hot take. Liadrin actually was always a devout follower of the Light, it's just that her ideals were shaken when Arthas sacked Quel'thalas. This to me is understandable, Arthas screwed a lot of people's lives up in many different ways. But why is it a bad thing for blood elves to have become redeemed at the end of the BC? I've seen so many people criticize this decision and I don't get why. To me it seems like the natural way to go when telling a story of redemption and moving past Arthas' reign.

Because diversity is key here, the bloodknights were different by spitting on faith taking the power they needed. Nowadays they are generic paladin 436. The light should be a tool to use, nothing more nothing less

[Ardenaso]

Remember when Liadrin ordered the murder of a neutral civilian doctor? Good thing they changed it into Eyegouge

[Combatbutler]

Remember when Liadrin ordered the murder of a neutral civilian doctor? Good thing they changed it into Eyegouge

Burning down churches had far more charm.

[Super Dickmann]

Remember when Liadrin ordered the murder of a neutral civilian doctor? Good thing they changed it into Eyegouge

Bitch broke my undergeared alt's kneecaps. Civilian my ass. Usha/Liadrin/Cromush did nothing wrong in putting a hit on that bint.

[Thalassian Bob]

I'm well aware, hence the importance of the word redeemed.



ROFL

No, it didn't... The burning of Teldrassil happened at the start of the goddamn war.

Literally go read the elegy stories.




LUL "legitimately chosen", if you mean deceived by the jailer into doing it the sure, he "legitimately chose" her.




During a time where the factions were not at war, when there was no cause to start a war, while the planet is fucking dying and both factions have better things to do.


If he had to take the crown through nefarious means (read: murdering his father, something that usually deprives one of their right to inheritance) he isn't the rightful heir. He committed regicide and patricide, treason, to usurp the crown, he was a usurper and a traitor, which is about as far from being the "rightful" heir as you can get.


In a war they started for no reason.

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He only knew the location of Azeroth because of the Highborne's abuse of the Well of Eternity. He was already looking for it, but that's what showed him the way.

You seem to misunderstand me. I'm not talking from my own perspective on these matters. I'm trying to offer an insight into what the Blood Knights probably knew and how that affected their perspective on the conflict and their ability to still use the Light (despite being "redeemed"). We know that Vol'jin was manipulated, we know that Galen betrayed his father, but the Blood Knights can't have known.

My mistake regarding the timeline with Teldrassil. I was going by patch timeline memory with the warfronts. You're right that the burning happened before the battle for Stromgarde, but the point I made as to why some Blood Knights would feel comfortable taking part in both campaigns, thereby being able to wield Light magic, still stands. The night elves have not always treated the Sin'dorei kindly.

The Light doesn't need its followers to be righteous, it just needs them to think they are. Look at the naaru that tried to force itself on Illidan. Every individual's reasons for going to war are different, but there was room for the Blood Knights to take an active role in the campaign while still believing the cause was righteous.

Remember when Liadrin ordered the murder of a neutral civilian doctor? Good thing they changed it into Eyegouge

They retconned that because it was so stupid.

[Itori]

I thought they did it during tbc because it was a source of magic to feed from, and later after they were cured of the magic hunger they realized they didnt need to force the light but instead do like the other paladins and serve it.

[Combatbutler]

I thought they did it during tbc because it was a source of magic to feed from, and later after they were cured of the magic hunger they realized they didnt need to force the light but instead do like the other paladins and serve it.

Not quite, Kael did send the Naaru to be fodder, the magisters decided to use it as a battery instead, thus creating the blood knights, who were mainly made up from disillusioned priests that had started to despise the light, due to feeling abandoned by it during the scourge invasion.

[sam86]

because they weren't really punished for the crime they did
But with the most recent update on light, and showing it as an extreme like shadow just opposite side, it is useless to ask it anymore

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Remember when Liadrin ordered the murder of a neutral civilian doctor? Good thing they changed it into Eyegouge

i remember the void elfs rezzing raptors as void abominations specially to insult zandalari trolls, and Liadrin quest got removed because it was never canon

[Ardenaso]

i remember the void elfs rezzing raptors as void abominations specially to insult zandalari trolls

cool, and?

[matrix123mko]

Old blood elves were a scholarly race that used all kinds of magic without fearing of being "evil". Now Grand Magister acts like Malfurion and prefers banishing scientists instead of increasing his control over theur research. Also, if Light is a cosmic force, why can't we use it without faith, just like Arcane or Fel?

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While I agree with the above noted hypocrisy, I think, in general, people opposing the “redemption” of the blood knights just like the supposed “3edgy5u” angle for the horde.

“Why did the blood elves NEED the forgiveness of the light?! They were better when they were COOL and POWERFUL and didn’t HAVE to care about the light like those other sheeple races! I don’t care what blizzard says! My BE paladin wields a libram entitled ‘the light delusion’ by the forsaken shadow priest Richard D’aw-keens who was kicked out of the argent dawn for being too awesome and it’s bound in the skins of innocent alliance children!”

And so on and so forth in that vein.


These are usually also the people who think sylvanas is a deep and compelling character.


Inb4 “OH but ANDUIN...”

Exactly. This desire should be fulfilled. New paladins are boring and don't matter in the story anyway.

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because they weren't really punished for the crime they did
But with the most recent update on light, and showing it as an extreme like shadow just opposite side, it is useless to ask it anymore

They were punished. They lost everything cool about them: atheism, cult of science, curiosity, unique spells, Kael'thas, addiction...

i remember the void elfs rezzing raptors as void abominations specially to insult zandalari trolls, and Liadrin quest got removed because it was never canon

Void elves are what blood elves should be.

[Sangris]

Because it took away what made them interesting just so they can be bland Human Paladin copies. It was nice being some sort of evil Paladin that would even put the Scarlet Crusade to shame in some aspects. You had to burn a fucking church for the epic mount - and not just any church, but the one where the Silver Hand was actually created.

From interactions with the guards in Silvermoon you could tell they actually had a lot of authority and were at odds with the Farstriders, who lost a lot of the prestige they enjoyed for so long. So even within Silvermoon, you had conflicts between the factions within the race.

It was these things that made me like the Blood Elves so much. I'm generally a fan of the Dark Elf trope and the Blood Elves fit well during TBC.

[matrix123mko]

It was these things that made me like the Blood Elves so much. I'm generally a fan of the Dark Elf trope and the Blood Elves fit well during TBC.

I like dark elves as long as they are not full Slaaneeshi. Then they are just dumb primitives.

[Zuben]

The thing with Blood Knights is that they don't have to be devout in order to wield the Light because of their connection to the Sunwell. That they are portrayed as such regardless feels stupid as it's essentially no different to Alliance paladins. Back in the naaru-enslaving days they held Light more as a practical source of power, which felt a more interesting take for Horde paladins.

[Sagenod]

Interesting how people supposedly yearn for the days when Blood Elves were in fact the "dark elves" of WoW, yet also question the fact that they continued to follow the Horde into darkness. Allying themselves with monsters out of vengeance, siphoning magic from anything and everything to fuel their magic addiction, Blood Elves are arrogant, imperialistic and above all, pragmatic. It was pragmatism that brought them to where they are now, every choice calculated to ensure the survival of their people. So you want them to be good or bad? Well just like every other race that is a unique society of individuals, they are neither. Blizzard has clearly defined their role, they are the arrogant, manipulative "High Elves" which we see in all sorts of lore. Elder Scrolls, Lord of the Rings. Some of them put on a face and spout such sentiments as "for the Light" or "for the Dark Lady" not because of their ideology, but to get along with those they rely on. Blood Elves will "support" anything, as long as it is benefits Quel'thalas.

By the way, service to the Light doesn't grant you power. Conviction in your beliefs grants you power. Lady Liadrin believes in the Blood Knights and in Quel'thalas, and that is what empowers her.

[sam86]

cool, and?

alliance have zero moral ground to ask to punish belf then?

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They were punished. They lost everything cool about them: atheism, cult of science, curiosity, unique spells, Kael'thas, addiction...

Void elves are what blood elves should be.

No they weren't!? Those happened before they turned the Naruu to a light battery, not after, also i'm not sure if u talking about lore or mocking blizz ruining game in general in some aspects?

[Ardenaso]

alliance have zero moral ground to ask to punish belf then?

cool, and? (2)

I don't remember talking about Void Elves on the Blood Knights discussion, alliance or not alliance

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alliance have zero moral ground to ask to punish belf then?

Also, you don't have to be an alliance fanboy to point that out.