Why aren't Tauren and Draenei just Neutral?

[AwkwardSquirtle]

They didn’t. Guldan brought the legion to draenor. The draenie were just the tool used by the legion to prepare the orcs to invade Azeroth. A two for one deal that settled the score with their cousins and prepare the orcs for Sargeras in the mind of Medivh to bring them over.

False. Talgath tracked the Draenei to Draenor at Kil'jaeden's behest. The direct approach had failed previously, so Kil'jaeden decided to recruit the Orcs into the Legion, starting with Gul'dan. I wouldn't go so far as to blame the Draenei for that, but it did happen as a result of them coming.

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What’s your point?

My point I enjoy wow cause of the races / cultures they have come up with. High fantasy and all.

If you read your original post, you imply that a fantasy story of "just humans" is uninteresting.

[TigTone]

If you read your original post, you imply that a fantasy story of "just humans" is uninteresting.

It was in response to the person who wanted to remove races without reason.

[Cyanu]

from my understanding Tauren did not join the Horde due to fear of the Alliance but due to their friendship with the Orcs which was explored in WC3

as for the Draenei tbh i never fully understood why they're in the game as anything other than Legion exlcusive NPCs but... at least the kinda fit the alliance

[Alvito]

The Orcs slaughtered Blood Elves too, as did the Undead(under Arthas or not), and both have shown no developments toward moving away from that, and yet the blood elves are in the horde because, to use the reason horde players use, garithos was mean to them.

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haha, oh the head canon and justification of horde players only gets better and better.

Imagine a bunch of people just showed up where you live and set up camp, on top of that they brought a trail of death with them. I doubt you would welcome them with open arms.

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They didn’t. Guldan brought the legion to draenor. The draenie were just the tool used by the legion to prepare the orcs to invade Azeroth. A two for one deal that settled the score with their cousins and prepare the orcs for Sargeras in the mind of Medivh to bring them over.

Kil'jaeden needed a public figure to unite the orcs against the draenei, so he started whispering to Gul'dan.

[Ardenaso]

as for the Draenei tbh i never fully understood why they're in the game as anything other than Legion exlcusive NPCs but... at least the kinda fit the alliance

it's funny because the Draenei has done more for the Blood Elves than the Night Elves. War of the Thorns and Battle for Darkshore, anyone?

[Beefhammer]

I mean every other race has a reason to hate the other faction. Orc has hatred from the second war, Undead has hatred from the Scarlet Crusade and general rejection of undeath, Trolls probably aren't too happy about having their siblings be genocided and be used as target practice, Blood elves are still pissed about Garithos and Goblins do whatever, Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes probably still have hatred from the second war, Night elves are pissed for Ashenvale and Teldrassil and Worgen are still angry about Gilneas.

Then what about Tauren and Draenei? Why do they participate in the faction war? The Tauren specifically Baine is basically an alliance puppet and constantly undermines and works against his own faction. Draenei on the other hand never participate in anything. I don't think I have ever seen Velen in a faction war setting. They didn't help at Teldrassil and are just very neutral, just look at Argus. Do Tauren feel the need to repay the orcs for saving them from the centaurs? Cairne is dead and Thrall was out of the picture of many years. Draenei supposedly joined because of the orcs, but the Draenei are at fault themselves for bringing the Burning Legion to Draenor in the first place, in fact, Draenei should apologise for what they did to the orcs

Gameplay reasons maybe?

Did you play WC3? Thralls horde helped save them from genocide. That's a pretty big reason why.

[Mungho]

The outlier now are Blood Elves. Now that Alliance has reclaimed Arathi and rebuilt Stormgarde, are rebuilding Gilneas and sacked Undercity, Blood Elves are tactically in an INCREDIBLY bad place to stay allied with the Horde. This should have been a bigger point in BFA imo. They became completely isolated against the Alliances largest forces.

I thought a good way to clear this up would be if Alleria's presence at the sunwell caused a huge bunch of void energy to interact with the sunwell and completely destroy Quel,thalas, with the Blood Elves barely managing to evacuate their population in time. Then you would have Blood Elves's enraged at the alliance because of one of their representatives destroying their country(albeit unintentionally)and removing their position in the Eastern Kingdoms.

[Highelf]

Imagine a bunch of people just showed up where you live and set up camp, on top of that they brought a trail of death with them. I doubt you would welcome them with open arms.

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Kil'jaeden needed a public figure to unite the orcs against the draenei, so he started whispering to Gul'dan.

Even though that is debateable. I doubt even more that I wouldn't slaughter them and hunt them for sport and set up comfort women and make a path of their bones and then drink the "trail of deaths" blood. But then again i'm not a weak willed, easily manipulated orc so who knows.

[Syegfryed]

Even though that is debateable. I doubt even more that I wouldn't slaughter them and hunt them for sport and set up comfort women and make a path of their bones and then drink the "trail of deaths" blood. But then again i'm not a weak willed, easily manipulated orc so who knows.

its easy to say that that when your race was not tricked and corrupted by the demons those persons brought on their track

[Highelf]

its easy to say that that when your race was not tricked and corrupted by the demons those persons brought on their track

Again, weak willed and easily manipulated. The orcs are notorious for this and is their reputation at this point. The blood just accented what they really are. It's hilarious to me that orc boys defend this when even Grom was filled with regret about it and even the honor meme saurfang.

[Beej]

I've seen some interesting arguments here coming from the Horde sympathizers. I read an argument that Night Elves Highborne are the most evil race of all, causing the most damage to everything because of the War of the Ancients they caused 10,000 years ago. I feel like this is the Warcraft version of "THANKS OBAMA!" as the Horde sympathizers continue to reach for straws regarding Alliance vs Horde morality comparisons. Blood Elves and Nightborne are also Highborne. So um... well this is awkward -- do I engage in that leap of mental gymnastics and blame the Horde for that too, like the Alliance somehow got blamed for? Nah, Horde are evil enough by their own merits, that won't be necessary.

Also, the Alliance is for some odd reason, consistently blamed for the actions of the "last general" of Laurderon, Garithos's actions against the Blood Elves. Garithos is Laurderon. Laurderon is Horde. Anything Laurderon did, is a Horde issue since Laurderon is Horde. Imagine all the Forsaken the Blood Elves regularly interact with that helped slaughter them in WC3. Damn that Alliance, though!

The Blood Elves left the Alliance because of Laurderon and the slaughter they narrowly escaped because of Laurderon, only to join Laurderon and their slaughterers in Burning Crusade. Logic.

Anyhow, this:

[Syegfryed]

Again, weak willed and easily manipulated. .

better than willingly allied with the demons, something the draenei did freely

The orcs are notorious for this and is their reputation at this point

so are the draenei that even followed the Legion in Draenor too, creating the sargerei

but no guys, orc bad

[Highelf]

better than willingly allied with the demons, something the draenei did freely



so are the draenei that even followed the Legion in Draenor too, creating the sargerei

but no guys, orc bad

Orc are bad. Just because someone else did it doesn't excuse them at all. In fact, maybe they should've talked to and listened to the people who had already been through it.

[Syegfryed]

Orc are bad. Just because someone else did it doesn't excuse them at all. In fact, maybe they should've talked to and listened to the people who had already been through it.

maybe, but in fact, the draenei brought the demons in their world and never warned other races about then coming, something they knew was going to happen, seems more bad to me.

[Highelf]

maybe, but in fact, the draenei brought the demons in their world and never warned other races about then coming, something they knew was going to happen, seems more bad to me.

Yeah, it's not. Not by a long shot.

[Soon-TM]

Yeah, it's not. Not by a long shot.

Yes, it is. If you know you are being pursued by Space Satan, and settle in another planet without telling a thing to its natives... Well, you are frankly being a cowardly PoS at best.

[sam86]

Taurens own their existence to horde, they won't bail until their end, check wc3
Draenei are like humans, don't believe they ever do wrong, also unlike humans they didn't kill every weaker race on sight, they still doomed infinite number of lives in their extreme selfish desire to just stay alive (which Draenei HD proved wasn't even needed in first place in Legion), they fit perfectly with a faction of pure hypocrites who think they are light chosen never do wrong even when what they doing is flat out pure evil
So why would either leave their faction? If Draenei leave alliance they won't find a faction that make their crimes not crimes anymore as 'light chosen warriors', and Taurens aren't forsaken/belf to be disloyal to faction they own their existence, and alliance would practice their favorite hobby of genocide if they see Taurens became weaker (remember humans tried to only kill every single living goblin of kezan for just existing, forsaken for dare to die literally defending their homeland then getting rezzed against their own free will, Darkspear trolls for dare being at their home island in middle of f8cking ocean, belf - twice - for just flat out being racist for first time at least)

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Yeah, it's not. Not by a long shot.

what about - using Velen own words - causing the death of countless of lives on millions of planets in their endless selfish escape, instead of doing what draenei HD did and stand and fight? As we saw in Legion u can do that, in fact if Draenei didn't run and helped their HD counterparts the BL may never existed in first place, after all BL is so retarded it can't end rebellion in their own capital, for over 25k years -.-
Way back in older lore their run did make sense, BL was presented as unstoppable forces that can't be stopped or even held, with only Azeroth being able to do the impossible with very high price, then came wow, and BL leader getting flushed like toilet sh8t, with their entire invasion 'effect' is just few demons at Blasted Lands (TBC events), then they try again and again with zero success, then came Legion with a great 1st attack at Broken Shore, then nothing, just getting their a88 beaten left and right to comical degree with joke characters like Millhouse Manastorm, then we went to Argus and that was the nail in coffin, we find Draenei HD fighting them non stop for 25k years, a miniscule group of Draenei who are outnumbered 1 to 1000000000 yet they still holding their grounds against BL, at their own capital, and a resistance group that exist since BL took over Argus, and the BL leader is an edgy titan who is also loli lover and wants to penetrate (they used that exact word) azeroth with his sword, he saw a female titan fetus in azeroth and instantly wanted to penetrate it, those words disgust me
And u want me to consider BL as a threat for killing Varian? Even that is done thanks to Gul'dan who is more of a mercenary hired by BL not actual member of them, not to mention Varian while extremely powerful warrior, is still a warrior, a class that is one of most common in all armies, he isn't a paladin or warlock or even mage, just a warrior

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Yes, it is. If you know you are being pursued by Space Satan, and settle in another planet without telling a thing to its natives... Well, you are frankly being a cowardly PoS at best.

that's old lore, he is now space loli rapist-wanna be

[Tharivor]

I'm not sure I really buy the whole "its the Draenei's fault the Legion got to Draenor" logic. I mean what were the Draenei supposed to do? I presume they needed resources so survive and its hardly reasonable to expect them to commit suicide just so when the constantly expanding Legion finds a new world they aren't technically culpable.

[sillag]

the uncomfortable truth is that the draenei leading the legion to draenor saved the orcs from being wiped out. the orcs owe their entire existence and lives to the draenei coming to draenor. this is provable with facts.

first u must remember that the thing that leads the legion to worlds is arcane magic. this is why the tirisgarde exists and the night elves stopped using the arcane. now draenor as u know had arcane magic in huge supply in the form of the ogres who were using ridiculous amounts of arcane with no restraint.

this fact means that u cannot blame the draenei for the legion finding draenor. the ogres would have led the legion to draenor eventually, at which point the legion would have wiped out everyone there like they did to every other world. the orcs would have been extinct.

now that we all accept these facts, we have to ask ourselves what changed because the draenei were there. well u see the fact is kil'jaeden changed his tactics literally only because the draenei was there. he wanted to really fuck them hard so he decided he would corrupt their friendly shamanistic peaceful neighbors, the orcs. the orcs were easily manipulated because the entire history of orcs in this game is being easily manipulated retards.

anyway the fact that the orcs won this war against the draenei was the thing that made kil'jaeden and sargeras decide to keep using them to fuck up azeroth. this is literally the only reason the orcs exist to this day. if the draenei hadn't shown up, they would have just exterminated them and moved on. and frankly everyone on azeroth would have been a lot happier

so as u can see the orcs only exist today because the draenei led kil'jaeden to them ahead of schedule. the orcs are, yet again, proven to be pathetic weak-minded trash who only exist because their enemies either feel sorry for them or feel they are easy to manipulate. which they are.

u can disagree with it if u like but sadly these are the facts as passed down to us by blizzard.

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and if u find that line of reasoning hard to swallow please remember we are talking about a game where the game itself literally suggests to us that the orcs have to be allowed to invade through the dark portal and kill thousands upon thousands of azerothians, enslave alexstrazsa, kill cenarius, etc. because "uhh.... well like, if they don't... im pretty sure we only win against the legion at hyjal if thrall and his 30 non-warsong orc buddies are there... because uh.... just trust me ok"