Cataclysm Garrosh, best warchief?

[Syegfryed]

Saying he "did nothing, and therefore it was boring" heavily implies he had the opportunity, or opportunities, but did nothing insterd.

how so?

if i ever watch a move about something, and the something rly didn't happened, you would say they didn't had the opportunity to do?

he had the entirety of Wod and the beginning of the legion, he did nothing, died, and put the worse leader in history in the leadership

[mortephobia]

guys the entire legion expansion proves that thrall cheated, he lost doomhammer and communicating with the elements became harder after that "incident"...that incident is obviously cheating in makgora. why else would the elements turn their backs on thrall? ...thank God legion is canon tho can't wiggle out of this one.

[Ielenia]

how so?

if i ever watch a move about something, and the something rly didn't happened, you would say they didn't had the opportunity to do?

he had the entirety of Wod and the beginning of the legion, he did nothing, died, and put the worse leader in history in the leadership

Good analogy. See, you watched the movie. That was the opportunity. Or opportunities.

In Voljin's case, we didn't get to see the "movie". Because there was never one, so to speak.

[Syegfryed]

Good analogy. See, you watched the movie. That was the opportunity. Or opportunities.

In Voljin's case, we didn't get to see the "movie". Because there was never one, so to speak.

there was, he was warchief in the end of mop, entire of wod and the beginning of Legion, there is plenty of time and "opportunity" to do things, its just blizzard fault with their terrible story writing

Answer, what he did in his time as warchief?

However the answer it will be like i said, bland, boring, uninteresting.

[Highelf]

Garrosh was a temper tantrum big baby and became what he hated. Once he gained power, he wanted more and more and more. They say when you get drunk it accents the deep truths about you. Power and daddy issues was his. A very forgettable character imo. He had no history of being a leader beforehand. no history of training of any kind that i'm aware of. Thrall didn't even really trust him, he thought putting him in that position would force him to grow up, all it did was accent his immaturities and issues.

However I will give him one thing, he did attempt to keep sylvanas in check.

Can we stop claiming that orcs have honor. Their "honor" is a meme at this point.

[Kufell]

guys the entire legion expansion proves that thrall cheated, he lost doomhammer and communicating with the elements became harder after that "incident"...that incident is obviously cheating in makgora. why else would the elements turn their backs on thrall? ...thank God legion is canon tho can't wiggle out of this one.

Except that the Doomhammer Artifact book text in Legion states the reason and that isn't it. The only rule of a Mak'gora is that the participants choose the rules, magic has been used in most of the known Mak'goras in lore, the only one where magic was explicitly cheating was in the movie, which was stated to be non-canon before it had even released in cinemas.

[Ielenia]

there was, he was warchief in the end of mop, entire of wod and the beginning of Legion, there is plenty of time and "opportunity" to do things, its just blizzard fault with their terrible story writing

No, there was no "movie". We didn't see him do anything, because he wasn't even shown in WoD save for 2 cutscenes when you upgraded your garrison, and then just at the very end, discussing the offensive against the Legion.

Answer, what he did in his time as warchief?

However the answer it will be like i said, bland, boring, uninteresting.

It's not "bland", it's not "boring", and it's not "uninteresting". Because there was nothing for him to do.

That's like saying, for example, that Thundera, the planet where the Thundercats came from, was a "bland, boring, uninteresting" place, because it was shown for a grand total of just a few minutes in the entire show before it blew up.

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guys the entire legion expansion proves that thrall cheated, he lost doomhammer and communicating with the elements became harder after that "incident"...that incident is obviously cheating in makgora. why else would the elements turn their backs on thrall? ...thank God legion is canon tho can't wiggle out of this one.

The elements did not turn their back on Thrall. It was his own guilt dulled his senses to the element and made the Doomhammer feel "heavy in his hands".

[mortephobia]

guilt from which incident? please complete the thought entirely and don't trail off when it doesn't suit you.

which incident did thrall feel guilty for?

I would feel guilty as well if I cheated in a makgora.

[Razaron]

And you are telling me that Garrosh and Thrall, just meet up to discuss the rules and thrall just throw out he would use third party powers seeking the aid of the elements, and Garrosh would be totally fine with that?

He seemed fine with it, if no rules are stated then it's probably all fine. That's how it looks from all the Mak'gora in history.

His fight in SoO also had magic without elements, the point was not using magic, even when magic before was not ok against non-magic users, they literally had to retcon that so Thrall didn't come off as a cheater(when the story of his redemption would be way better) sure the move isn't canon, but pretty much showed orcs reactions about a fucked up mak'gora

But again, the point is not even using magic alone, but being powered by some third party and using this third party to win, when the mak'gora is a 1x1 fight of equals

I'm talking about their first Mak'gora, Thrall and Garrosh have had two. One was during the pre-wotlk event, during this duel the players got to witness the fight and Thrall was tossing him about like fun with the elements. What does tell us? That it was perfectly acceptable.



You may feel it's not fair that a shaman can use his powers in a Mak'gora, or that any magic is allowed. But according to the history of Warcraft it appears fine. Feel free to respond but I feel we're going to be going round in circles now.

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guilt from which incident? please complete the thought entirely and don't trail off when it doesn't suit you.

which incident did thrall feel guilty for?

I would feel guilty as well if I cheated in a makgora.

Read the Doomhammer book in Legion.

[Grazrug]

Sylvanas was the greatest warchief, considering how much damage she did to the Alliance since cataclysm. Sadly ungratfeful peasants aren't aware of her sucess and her $D chess masterplan so she had to go. At least for the moment. I'm sure she will return.

[mortephobia]

Read the Doomhammer book in Legion.

please , you say go read it yourself and when i do re-read it i find it offers 0% as to facts that support your argument that thrall did not cheat.
please here is the text.

"Long ago, before Orgrim passed the Doomhammer to Thrall, he confided that although the weapon had once brought him closer to the elements, over time it had become a dead weight in his hands.

Through the years, Thrall wielded the Doomhammer with honor and integrity. However, following his execution of the malign warchief Garrosh Hellscream, Thrall felt conflicted. This internal struggle was reflected in the Doomhammer as well. In Thrall's mind, the weapon that had embodied the ideals of justice and virtue had now come to represent vengeance.

History repeated itself as the Doomhammer had once again become a ""dead weight."" This has caused many to wonder whether the Doomhammer will reclaim its place as a symbol of righteous wrath."


so he used to weild the weapon with "honour" and "inegrity" ....gee i wonder what dishonorable act did thrall commit so that he becomes conflicted??....gee thats really hard to think of...ah it was that one time he must have helped a player character kill gamon in the inn....thats probably the reason he was conflicted...

Again i repeat , i would feel conflicted that i would cheat in a makgora after getting my ass handed to me. convince me otherwise.

[Razaron]

please , you say go read it yourself and when i do re-read it i find it offers 0% as to facts that support your argument that thrall did not cheat.
please here is the text.

"Long ago, before Orgrim passed the Doomhammer to Thrall, he confided that although the weapon had once brought him closer to the elements, over time it had become a dead weight in his hands.

Through the years, Thrall wielded the Doomhammer with honor and integrity. However, following his execution of the malign warchief Garrosh Hellscream, Thrall felt conflicted. This internal struggle was reflected in the Doomhammer as well. In Thrall's mind, the weapon that had embodied the ideals of justice and virtue had now come to represent vengeance.

History repeated itself as the Doomhammer had once again become a ""dead weight."" This has caused many to wonder whether the Doomhammer will reclaim its place as a symbol of righteous wrath."


so he used to weild the weapon with "honour" and "inegrity" ....gee i wonder what dishonorable act did thrall commit so that he becomes conflicted??....gee thats really hard to think of...ah it was that one time he must have helped a player character kill gamon in the inn....thats probably the reason he was conflicted...

Again i repeat , i would feel conflicted that i would cheat in a makgora after getting my ass handed to me. convince me otherwise.

No you're just twisting the words and your reasoning to fit your Garrosh fanboy agenda. Sorry to sound harsh but if you can't face clear evidence, what hope is there in me trying to convince you otherwise? I'll stick to the evidence you can believe what you like.

This is like trying to argue with a flat earthers.

[mortephobia]

No you're just twisting the words and your reasoning to fit your Garrosh fanboy agenda. Sorry to sound harsh but if you can't face clear evidence, what hope is there in me trying to convince you otherwise? I'll stick to the evidence you can believe what you like.

This is like trying to argue with a flat earthers.

hahahahahahaha....you cant even highlight your so called "evidence" , dude you lost this argument so hard if I was you Id also try to midsirect and and change the topic to something else and then use an adhominum by comparing you to a fringe group . Too funny. so basic. better luck next time.

[Razaron]

hahahahahahaha....you cant even highlight your so called "evidence" , dude you lost this argument so hard if I was you Id also try to midsirect and and change the topic to something else and then use an adhominum by comparing you to a fringe group . Too funny. so basic. better luck next time.

If you read the actual thread you'll see messages where I've stated why your incorrect many times.

Here's why Thrall didn't cheat

There has been plenty of Mak'gora with magic, shamanism, with armour, without armour, dual-wielding, one weapon, with blessings, without blessings. Explain now how Thrall cheated using magic? If he cheated in WoD, he cheated in pre-wotlk when he was tossing lightning bolts at Garrosh.

Why not go enlighten yourself and read the wowpedia on the Mak'gora? https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mak%27gora

One of the two arguements you gave was, Thrall cheated because in the wow movie Gul'dan used the fel.

Newsflash, the Warcraft movie isn't canon. Proven wrong.

Your second arguement was, he felt guilty at cheating in the Mak'gora.

Well I've already explained why Thrall didn't cheat so I'll explain Thrall's mindstate.

Thrall lost his elemental powers because he lost faith in himself, thus the elements lost faith in him. The reason he lost faith in himself is to do with the decisions he's made that led to the deaths of his friends and Grom's son. It's not so petty as you state by saying it's about him cheating in a Mak'gora. My arguement again is backed up by him highlighting his mindset with Jaina in a recent cutscene. The Doomhammer artifact book states this internal conflict and no where does it say Thrall cheated in a Mak'gora.

I suggest you don't believe April Fool videos titled Garrosh Did Nothing Wrong. You got trolled.

[Varodoc]

Lol Thrall didn't cheat. He used elements in the WotLK duel too and no one gave a shit, not even Garrosh.

[mortephobia]

"There has been plenty of Mak'gora with magic", produce your evidence.

enough with the fake news#

[Razaron]

"There has been plenty of Mak'gora with magic", produce your evidence.

enough with the fake news#

Alright, you're trolling. Have fun with the thread.

[Syegfryed]

He seemed fine with it, if no rules are stated then it's probably all fine. That's how it looks from all the Mak'gora in history.

didn't seem that way, Thral was using the doomhammer, not his magic, neither the elements, it was only when he was fucked up he used the elements

I'm talking about their first Mak'gora, Thrall and Garrosh have had two. One was during the pre-wotlk event, during this duel the players got to witness the fight and Thrall was tossing him about like fun with the elements. What does tell us? That it was perfectly acceptable.

Again, i know that, i literally used that too as an example, in their previous 2 fights thrall never used or ask the elements to intervene in their fight, he used his own magic, thats why in both fights he mostly used lighting(sue, arguable, the ingame fights could not be canon due to they just using their NPC skills)

You may feel it's not fair that a shaman can use his powers in a Mak'gora, or that any magic is allowed. But according to the history of Warcraft it appears fine. Feel free to respond but I feel we're going to be going round in circles now.

Like i said, big difference using his own powers and using the elements, as third party, not as much difference in someone else poising your blade. Also, big difference when both fighters use magic

thats why those explanations trying to take thrall blame away made all a mess., cause by that, Sylvanas didn't cheat, neither Garrosh and Cairne fight was cheat, and makora is simple a fight where you can simple blow your enemy away first, there is no rule, since you can made up explanations later.

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No, there was no "movie". We didn't see him do anything, because he wasn't even shown in WoD save for 2 cutscenes when you upgraded your garrison, and then just at the very end, discussing the offensive against the Legion.

that was his fault for sitting his ass in orgrimmar

time he had

It's not "bland", it's not "boring", and it's not "uninteresting". Because there was nothing for him to do.

if there was nothing, nothing to me is bland, boring and uninteresting

That's like saying, for example, that Thundera, the planet where the Thundercats came from, was a "bland, boring, uninteresting" place, because it was shown for a grand total of just a few minutes in the entire show before it blew up.

You can say that, but you are comparing minutes to months/years of game, while vol'jin did nothing

[Aucald]

"There has been plenty of Mak'gora with magic", produce your evidence.

enough with the fake news#

In the Mak'gora between Shagara and Ashra (occurring in the "Bloodsworn" comics) both combatants, a Shaman and Paladin/Blood Knight respectively, use magic in their declared Mak'gora. They both had decided on rules beforehand, limiting themselves to one weapon and no armor (only clothing). The use of magic during their duel isn't considered to be cheating by either combatant. Similarly, the first Mak'gora between Garrosh and Thrall had Thrall using Shamanic magic (lightning bolts and the like) with neither party calling foul.

The precedent is that magic doesn't appear to be considered "a weapon" insofar as Mak'gora is concerned - even when the prearranged rules enshrine a "one weapon" restriction magic still isn't considered to be in addition to said weapon.

[Ielenia]

that was his fault for sitting his ass in orgrimmar

time he had

Time he did not had. Orgrimmar requires his warchief there to rule things, not in another dimension doing something that was already delegated to capable hands. Thrall's hands.

if there was nothing, nothing to me is bland, boring and uninteresting.

So you can't differentiate "nothing", as in, actual nothing, a void... from "nothing" as in, "he did nothing"?

You can say that, but you are comparing minutes to months/years of game, while vol'jin did nothing

In context, it's the same thing. The Thundercats spent years and years in Thundera, but life in that planed was never shown. By your logic, that means Thundera was a "bland, boring, uninteresting" place.