Demo split from the warlock class?

[koalafarmer]

Afflic / Destro ( dots and cleave ) plays and stays as the traditional warlock class. Makes it easier for blizzard to balance and flesh out. I've spent the better part of ten years. watching half way through an expansion, blizzard boosting the performance of one spec and see it over take the other two.

I'd love to see Demo unleashed. From marketing / HR / budget. Building a new class = promotion, drive expansion interest, more money etc. 2 spec, easier to balance and update and keep both specs equal, but interesting.

Warlock, becomes the master of Dots / cleave. ( aff / destro)

The New class, Master of summoning / control. One is undead. The other is demons. Necromancer / Demologist. Make / forge Demon /undead skin based armour. Use updated Demons / undead models. Again, give both pure class fantasy. And its time for a real Control / summoner type class to appear.

Shadowlands really felt like it was the expansion times for the raise of the necromancer.

Food for thought.

[Coraline Bat]

You could essentially say, they took away Metamorphosis part of warlock and that entire spec, and made a whole new class! Look it has demon in it's name and uses some of the same ability :O

and in return Warlock got the master summoner spec!

In all seriousness, Shadowlands isnt a great time to introduce a necromancer. Yes you have maldraxus. But a necromancer going into SL and being part of any other covenant other than them would make 0 sense.

Maybe next expansion, if we're allies with the Necrolords.

[Gaidax]

Someone trying to insert his headcanon into what warlocks are supposed to be. Another day, another dumb MMO-C thread.

[Aggressive]

Someone trying to insert his headcanon into what warlocks are supposed to be. Another day, another dumb MMO-C thread.

And this is why I don't interact much on these forums any more. Too many people on here have that rude Trump attitude.

[Razion]

Better to add a fourth spec to Warlocks that summons undead than take away a spec from a class and take away their options.

At that point, may as well rename Warlock to Summoner or Sorcerer or something more generalized than Warlock which is more specific as a way to justify the fourth spec.

While a Summoner class would be appropriate for Demonology, Warlocks losing a spec and not getting a replacement is NOT the way to go about it.

Two classes with two specs is more options when making your character, but when playing your character you would have less specs to switch around and play with. I think it's a lot more important to have more options when playing the character you've already made.

I mean geez at this point it may just be better to have ALL specs available to everyone to switch between freely like other games offer class-switching. It would make it a heck of a lot easier for them to implement individual new specs into the game without having to worry about actually literally taking options away from existing classes but rather adding new options to a wider pool of specs for everyone.

[Gaidax]

And this is why I don't interact much on these forums any more. Too many people on here have that rude Trump attitude.

Nothing wrong about pointing that out.

Last time I checked there are no particular constraints that demand all warlock specs to be carbon copy of each other. Or all warlock specs have to be dot/spread cleave.

So it happens that Warlocks have 3 relatively destinct specs in what they do and what they are good at. Demo does end up being red headed step child more often than not because yes, two other specs have extremely nice raid toys.

It's fine for specs to be destinct and if you want extra Demo power in raids or something of that sort it can be done without necessarily carbon copying other specs.

[koalafarmer]

Gaidax, misfired his shanghai again and made another dumb MMO-C post. Poor bugger.


Why class spilt?

If you see a class like the druid, with 4 distinct specs. healer, tank, melee and range dps. Each share some core abilites. But each feel more fleshed out. A warlock is a pure range dps spec x 3. One is seen as dots & drain, the another is cleave / chaos bolts and the other, has its many rebirthed versions, over the years. Demo has been the distant spec of a 3 range class dps spec for many, many years. You can't expect to keep doing the same thing and get a different result.

I've just viewed finalboss tv and BellularGaming re-adjust the shadowlands youtube video on warlocks, "they said", Both got it wrong and realized after blacklash / hearing from long term warlock players, not enough is being done on the class again! And that's been the way for the warlock class for sometime. Common feedback from those warlock players, it feels like the team desiging the class, do not play it. Cut, copy and she be right fix. And the class suffers from it.

There is so much class fantasy within the warlock spec. But I understanding that this is a business, that has real world costs / $$ / limit time. And spending alot of design time on the red head step child spec of the warlock class, doesn't pass the bean counter test. Hence my suggestion of breaking it from warlock into a new class as the Necromancer / Demologist spec. Where the bean counters can see a new product to push, that could lead to more overall unit sales,$$$ and we get a more flesh out demo idea spec due to more direct design time. Then whats been gutted and rejigged, over last couple of expansions.

Peace....

[Saltysquidoon]

The premise of the op is flawed. Summoning and controlling demons has been a core part of warlocks since day 1, the first lock thing you do in vanilla is learn to summon an imp.

Dots and cleave (wut) are no more integral to locks than pets and summoning. Just because demo has a more troubled history then aff or destro (not that destro hasn't had problems) doesn't mean it needs to be cleft from the class.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Demons are as fundamental to warlock identity as dots are. Give us class skins if you want skeleton demo locks.

[The Butt Witch]

Demo should be like BM. One powerful demon that you buff from the back, any additional demons come as procs or fluff content.
Current demo playstyle is very convoluted.

[Gaidax]

Gaidax, misfired his shanghai again and made another dumb MMO-C post. Poor bugger.


Why class spilt?

If you see a class like the druid, with 4 distinct specs. healer, tank, melee and range dps. Each share some core abilites. But each feel more fleshed out. A warlock is a pure range dps spec x 3. One is seen as dots & drain, the another is cleave / chaos bolts and the other, has its many rebirthed versions, over the years. Demo has been the distant spec of a 3 range class dps spec for many, many years. You can't expect to keep doing the same thing and get a different result.

I've just viewed finalboss tv and BellularGaming re-adjust the shadowlands youtube video on warlocks, "they said", Both got it wrong and realized after blacklash / hearing from long term warlock players, not enough is being done on the class again! And that's been the way for the warlock class for sometime. Common feedback from those warlock players, it feels like the team desiging the class, do not play it. Cut, copy and she be right fix. And the class suffers from it.

There is so much class fantasy within the warlock spec. But I understanding that this is a business, that has real world costs / $$ / limit time. And spending alot of design time on the red head step child spec of the warlock class, doesn't pass the bean counter test. Hence my suggestion of breaking it from warlock into a new class as the Necromancer / Demologist spec. Where the bean counters can see a new product to push, that could lead to more overall unit sales,$$$ and we get a more flesh out demo idea spec due to more direct design time. Then whats been gutted and rejigged, over last couple of expansions.

Peace....

You ramblings are completely irrelevant. You seem to be under impression that somehow Warlocks having a spec that focuses and expands one their core feature is a corporate cost saving stunt? What?

And then you wonder why I branded this thread retarded from a get go. You somehow push current Demonology being a corporate creation?

Tell me, was it Bobby Kotick forcing it down Blizzard throat or the Board of Shareholders? Is Summon Tyrant a self-insert by J. Allen Brack or maybe imps represent the insignificant players to be burned and tossed out for money power? Oooh ooh I know, Ion has created this because he hates everyone and in particular warlock players, so he wants us to suffer!

---

When you make a Warlock character you are greeted with this:



Demons are a core differentiating quality of warlocks, like it or not and I find it weird you are somehow shocked we have a spec that focuses on that aspect.


But then where's the fun in claiming that? Better push yet another idiotic Actiblizz conspiracy on a burner account.

[vaeevictiss]

should just get rid of demo at this point and make us a two spec class like DH. It hasnt been fun or viable in a few expansions now and its clear that Blizz doesnt want to do anything useful with it. Just merge some of the abilities into aff and destro.

And give us back that damn meteor crash ability. That was awesome.

[Saltysquidoon]

should just get rid of demo at this point and make us a two spec class like DH.It hasnt been fun or viable in a few expansions now and its clear that Blizz doesnt want to do anything useful with it. Just merge some of the abilities into aff and destro.

And give us back that damn meteor crash ability. That was awesome.

Are you sure about that

[vaeevictiss]

Are you sure about that

I am, and apparently so is the majority of the community. Only place it may even be viable is M+ but even then its dwarfed by the people playing destro.

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankin...MythicLevel=99


its just got a speckling in raiding

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...#class=Warlock


even in pvp. Demo (and aff for that matter) is hardly being used.

https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pvp...lasses/warlock

[Saltysquidoon]

its just got a speckling in raiding

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...#class=Warlock

That link is probably the worse way to determine raid viability ever, high individual ranks are stacked and cheesed to oblivion. If you look at an aggregation of parses (I picked the best fight for demo feel free to look at others) you'll see demo is viable by any definition on both an intra and inter-class basis.

Locks suck in general in M+ but the fact it's better then aff makes it viable.

PvP is a special duck because destro is the best-ranged dps spec in arenas so obviously most pvp locks will play it but again it's better then aff.

So given it's better then aff in 2/3s of possible high-end content does that mean we should just get rid of aff ( or roll them both into destro)?

[vaeevictiss]

Aff is still played more than demo. And 2/3? there's more people using aff in raiding and pvp. Only place demo is higher is in M+ but that doesnt make up for its clunky playstyle.

EDIT: I do however agree with how cheesed a lot of the warcraft logs rankings are with some seemingly impossible numbers under any normal circumstances. Should be a better way to weed through that. If there were, im sure demo would still have the least presence.

[Saltysquidoon]

I prefer aff (it's the spec I play most on my lock). I've just been pointing out that right now demo is plenty viable.

[Mardux]

You could essentially say, they took away Metamorphosis part of warlock and that entire spec, and made a whole new class! Look it has demon in it's name and uses some of the same ability :O

and in return Warlock got the master summoner spec!

In all seriousness, Shadowlands isnt a great time to introduce a necromancer. Yes you have maldraxus. But a necromancer going into SL and being part of any other covenant other than them would make 0 sense.

Maybe next expansion, if we're allies with the Necrolords.

Yeah, it sucked taking meta from dh in the warcraft universe just to lose it so dh could have it back.

[Shandalar]

Demonology is a core trait of the warlock.

I dont want it splitted. I just want to feel like a real master summoner, dont like now. But thats a warlock core essence.

[Skayth]

Demonology is core to locks. U can look at what it is in vanilla right now (buffs up demons and urself, and conjuration). In bc, u get a brand new summon (felguard) and has been core since. Wotlk till mop (they basically killed demo all of wod) u had meta, but it changed through the course of that.

First it was a super buff and changed 2 spells, then it changed 3, then is became a fury bar.... people say mop version was best, but it wasnt. Literally all u did was was till ur lei shen trinket popped and then u put doom on everthing. My favorite version of meta demo was actually at the end of hfc (wod) tier set. It incorporated both demo form and the what is now spec (but had u summon all types of demons rather than doggos and imps)

Demo has been fun since. But very anticlimactic. Not in the sense of dps... but in the sense of summons. Sure we still have our felguard... but i miss having my doomguard and infernal. I literally started playing this class, back when the game came out, just to use the infernal as that was the biggest damn summon i remember from wc3. I legit wanted to be archimonde from wc3.. but here we are, and our core abilities still are given to each spec rather than letting master of summoning to have all demons...

And ur talking about having demonolgy split? Into what? Its already stale as it is with limiting us to felguard. Warlocks (dnd and otber rpgs) all have them cursing, destroying, or summoning... and thats what u get here... while i just said demo is stale, but its doing the thematic correctly by having us summon demons to do our bidding.

All i want out of demo is to have use have access to all sorts of demons... instead of limiting us.