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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    PvP and PvE should be largely separate. A player can enjoy both, but often players lean much more towards enjoying one rather than the other. Forcing people to do both only cause people to lose interest.

    Imagine if the game forced everyone to PvP. But it doesn't, does it? PvE'rs would have a field day crying about that.

    Who in the hell is exactly FORCING you to get the cloak ? Let me answer that for you. LITERALLY NO ONE. That's who.


    Only thing that would force you to get it, is if you were doing Ny'alotha last 2 bosses so you needed it to not get mind controlled, but as you stated multiple times that you only PVP, I don't see an issue.

    Wanna know what the real situation is ? You came back after almost a year of not playing, and your entitled lazy ass wants to have all the things that other players have been collecting and farming for, just so you can be on "par" with others in PVP. Why would you care about that, pvp scaling will just adjust your damage anyway so it doesn't even fucking matter in the first place.

    You want it because other players have it. No other reason. As you seem like a casual pleb, I doubt that you're pushing for high pvp ranks, which is the case when I'd understand you whining about getting the cloak. My guess is you're just a random bg spammer, and please correct me if I'm wrong, so just get a random epic cloak and pretend that the legendary one doesn't exist. You obviously don't care about the game, why would you care if your cloak is purple or range.

    Also, if you can't manage to finish one lousy quest line, maybe you should reconsider what kind of games you really want to be playing. Imagine playing an mmo and crying about completing a single quest line after coming back to the game after ONE YEAR.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    PvP and PvE should be largely separate. A player can enjoy both, but often players lean much more towards enjoying one rather than the other. Forcing people to do both only cause people to lose interest.

    Imagine if the game forced everyone to PvP. But it doesn't, does it? PvE'rs would have a field day crying about that.
    The game does "force" PVE players to PVP, but only in the same way that it forces PVP players to PVE. Tons of PVE players had to grind PVP for essences because they were BiS, and it likely took a bit longer than the 15 hours you're complaining about.
    Last edited by Jazzhands; 2020-05-27 at 01:55 PM.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    There was a time when returning to the game after a year just meant you had to grind gear to catch up. There was new PvE content but it wasn't necessary to do because it didn't introduce its own systems of adding power to your character that you could ONLY get by doing that content. I could easily just farm up gear I needed from pvping or dungeons and never had to spend 15 hours doing max level boring ass questing.
    The last time this was the case was Cata. Sure, there was a time, but that time passed a looong while ago.

    And ofc, you still had the PvP gear to grind out before you had a chance even back then.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
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  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    4 hours per char I want to pvp on is 4 hours more than any amount of max level questing I have any desire to do right now.
    Perhaps WoW Retail is not the game for you. There hasn't been a time in the past 3-4 years where you could just dive into PvP and only do that in order to progress. Heck, even Windwalker Monks have to have 1000 rating before they can even be competitive in PvE.

    Just put in the work. An MMO is not supposed to be a pick up and play game like Overwatch or Fortnite.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    It is probably a mark of the changing times yes. Working for something is going out of fashion, because the millenial crowd demands instant gratification if they so much as push a button. It does not bode well for our society.
    People throw millennial around like crazy nowadays, but most people perusing this forum are millennials...

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    5. The world layout was much better. Nazjatar is a nightmare.
    nazjatar has one of the best vertical design of any zone ever. between gliders, the consumable movement items from the zone itself and all the little shortcuts it has you can move around really efficiently.

    real shame they allowed flying in there, it was one of the best designed zones for no-flying.

  7. #107
    Here the problem is clear.
    People complain about too little to do and others complain about too much to do.

    Sorry to hear you had a bad time, but realize in life some times you will have problems that you can fix and sometimes you will have problems you can not fix.

    This is the former.

    Sadly, this game requires a lot of time and at times, a lot of research.
    Learn this lesson going forward and it will save you mental effort spent on this sort of thing.

    Every major patch that will come out will likely change the game severely from now on.
    If you plan on taking over a year off, you will have missed far too much to catch up quickly.

    Good for me, as a frequent player, bad for you.

    Do your best to learn from this in the future if you care to.
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  8. #108
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    Agree, its like 4 systems you need to catch up on + flying which forces you to play in 2 very boring zones,
    And the worst part is the ilvl jump, how often does blizz want to squis?
    no thank you, im waiting for shadowlands, enjoying classic in the meantime

  9. #109
    That's why there is no influx of new players. Blizz knows and doesn't care anymore. They will milk whatever players are left and that's it.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Babadoo View Post
    That's why there is no influx of new players. Blizz knows and doesn't care anymore. They will milk whatever players are left and that's it.
    This is the most wrong thing ever. Most of the playerbase is now either legion babies or BfA babies. Hell the #1 US M+ Healer, started playing this expansion.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    2 major patches happened with their own systems and gear.

    I sympathize, but really, you can't expect return after a year and have nothing change. It's not SWTOR.

    The upside is that catching up is not terrible, the downside - until then you are 2nd class citizen
    Couldn't have said it better.

    To the OP, I mean this is an MMO and when you leave an MMO for an extended period you're just behind. The recent changes make it that much worse. It would've been much easier if you left after say BoD and came back I in time for visions.

    You're also at the very tail end of the xpac. Can't expect to come in and make something of yourself with only about 6 months left.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    Then play Call of Duty if you want Call of Duty character progressing. Since WoW is not Call of Duty, it does require you to actually play the game to be competitive, and PVP is not WoW. It's a side distraction and always has been, and you need to do some PVE content to be competitive. Just like you always have.
    We already have CoD progression in WoW. That's the problem.

  13. #113
    What's funny tho is that you'll find even more threads with the opposite extreme like "I'VE BEEN PLAYING FOR A WEEK AND I'M WEARING ALREADY MAX GEAR LOLZ WHAT A DUMB GAME"

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Great Destiny Man View Post
    I can kinda forgive 7.3 because it generally made the prior systems extremely trivial in terms of acquisition and unlocks (and you were largely just doing the content you want to get it).

    8.3 is a whole different kettle of fish because you're constantly pulled in different directions to unlock/obtain different parts. Do I farm for Azerite? Do I farm AP? Do I farm for my essences? Do I farm my cloak? Do I farm echoes for corruptions? etc. If we have more end patches like this then I'll be really dismayed.
    Echoes has been recent addition and I agree that can be a farm, Farming AP has been retired in 8.2. Farming essences is not a thing for most of them. The only real one it BotE rank 3. Other than that it's just playing the game to get it. Cloak farm is another thing where you either do daily quests every day and gain 4 levels per week or do 3 assaults per week and gain 3 levels. It's not great but again, it's progression system and visions are actually cool. I do understand where they are coming from kind of, but otherwise they would be screaming "wtf I came back after 2 major patches and there is like 2 hours of content to do REEE" and you can't argue that it would not be a case. There were people who said whole 8.3 is 3 hours of content when it came out.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Echoes has been recent addition and I agree that can be a farm, Farming AP has been retired in 8.2. Farming essences is not a thing for most of them. The only real one it BotE rank 3. Other than that it's just playing the game to get it. Cloak farm is another thing where you either do daily quests every day and gain 4 levels per week or do 3 assaults per week and gain 3 levels. It's not great but again, it's progression system and visions are actually cool. I do understand where they are coming from kind of, but otherwise they would be screaming "wtf I came back after 2 major patches and there is like 2 hours of content to do REEE" and you can't argue that it would not be a case. There were people who said whole 8.3 is 3 hours of content when it came out.
    Like I said earlier in the thread I admit AP and Azerite weren't the best examples. Essences are still things that force you down specific areas to unlock the things you want. Cloak as well is a different avenue where the choice is literally "do visions and upgrade cloak or don't".

    To clarify though, my point is more that you can't do one singular activity and work on all systems concurrently (like in Legion), you have to make a physical choice about what you want to focus on.

  16. #116
    That makes more sense now.
    It's a positive that echoes can be farmed via visions, pvp or m+ or from raids even, o the other hand I kinda liked essences being on different activities. Maybe strife was the least enjoyable but others were ok. I would have not ran so many bgs otherwise and I found it rather enjoyable Tho I speak for myself. My hunter friend hates BG's. It literally took her 9 months to get blood and I was forcing her. What many has said before - essences should be the best for the activity you gained if from. Blood being bis for M+ is totally not the best design and raid essence should not be bis in pvp

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by joebob42 View Post
    I feel like it would be better for the company and for players to have everything reset weekly rather than daily. If you model the desired rate of play as three hours per day, then you just need to have enough repeatable content to give around 21 hours per week of activities. You can then let the players decide when they want to do those activities. The reset wouldn't be on a specific day, but things would drop off after seven days rather than 24 hours (dailies) or three days (emissaries).

    Basically, each day, new content would unlock at the normal daily reset time. The difference is that you would have seven days to do the activity before it resets.

    If we look at the WQ system, there is Proudmoore, Drustvar, Storm's Wake, Tortollan, Champions of Azeroth, War Effort, and Waveblade. That's seven factions, so you get to do each of the emissary quests once per week, but you only have three days to get any single one done before you miss out on it for that week. In my design, you could choose to do all seven in the same day, then the next day the first one in the cycle would open up again. You could do one per day, or you could wait until all seven were available again. The same goes for repeatable quests.

    I would rather have the freedom to decide to play 3 hours per day, 21 hours in a single day, or somewhere in-between, and I think it would be better for Blizzard too.

    As for things like daily resets on heroic dungeons, they could build up like your loot roll tokens or the horrific vision vessels. You get one unlock token per day for each dungeon, with a cap of seven per dungeon. You could choose to run the dungeon seven times in a single day, but then you would have to wait until the next day to run it again. The point is that you don't have to run the dungeon every single day to avoid missing out on loot.

    Raids and mythic dungeons are already once per week, so there's nothing needed to change for them.

    Imagine if WoW was designed this way. You could decide that Tuesday is emissary day where you do all seven emissary quests. Wednesday and Thursday are dungeon days where you run each (non-LFD) heroic dungeon seven times. That has you ready for Friday and Saturday raid nights. Then you can set aside Sunday and Monday for PvP, questing, or whatever. If you're a masochist, you could do everything just on the weekend, and not even play WoW at all during the week.

    The only real difference these changes would make is that you don't miss out on anything if you skip logging in for a few days.
    You know, suddenly mop's dev philosophy hits you hard in the face, and it hurts. At that time we had no idea what their words meant tho, we were like are they high or something?
    Remember the devs saying at the time of mop "we don't want you to have to log in every day, here, you can cap your badges in a week, even from pet battles!"
    And then the pandaren saying "slow down, life is to be savored!"
    God, if we knew what is coming with Legion. Maybe it was a warning.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Echoes has been recent addition and I agree that can be a farm, Farming AP has been retired in 8.2. Farming essences is not a thing for most of them. The only real one it BotE rank 3. Other than that it's just playing the game to get it. Cloak farm is another thing where you either do daily quests every day and gain 4 levels per week or do 3 assaults per week and gain 3 levels. It's not great but again, it's progression system and visions are actually cool. I do understand where they are coming from kind of, but otherwise they would be screaming "wtf I came back after 2 major patches and there is like 2 hours of content to do REEE" and you can't argue that it would not be a case. There were people who said whole 8.3 is 3 hours of content when it came out.
    How is AP farm not a thing on a fresh char? Your fresh level 120 starts with neck level 4-5. I'm not sure how much AP the "must to do" questlines give (opening up of nazjatar, getting the cloak), that you have to do anyways for essences and the cloak, but you can't just ignore your level 5 necklace and not do anyrthing about it. And if you want to level it, it's not like legion, when a handful of AP wq basically maxed it out for you.
    Last edited by Lei; 2020-05-27 at 05:18 PM.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    I literally had to do weeks of PvP for my BiS essences. I like the systems you have a problem with because it gives me something to do. I don't want a game where i am done in 2 weeks.
    But that is taste i guess. The alt thing is annoying though.
    Your BEST IN SLOT, but they aren't required for being competitive, you're just looking to min max. I HAVE to do hours and hours of questing just to stand any chance at all in pvp. even with out considering BIS gear.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yes, because it is a VIDEO GAME FOR ENTERTAINMENT, not a second job.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mojusk View Post
    its kinda how wow has always worked.. if you dont play for a year, you cant just jump back in at be on a even playingfield immediately.. theres tons of catch up, so youll get the stuff A LOT faster than those you played the whole year you didnt.
    Like I said in my OP, a grind has always been necessary, buts its a grind you could always do just by running dungeons or pvping. You never had to progress through 5 different quest lines of boring ass max level story to unlock systems that increase your characters power directly. That is what is dumb.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    How is AP farm not a thing on a fresh char? Your fresh level 120 starts with neck level 4-5. I'm not sure how much AP the "must to do" questlines give (opening up of nazjatar, getting the cloak), that you have to do anyways for essences and the cloak, but you can't just ignore your level 5 necklace and not do anyrthing about it. And if you want to level it, it's not like legion, when a handful of AP wq basically maxed it out for you.
    you get neck 50 for free from doing the nazjatar intro iirc. and then it's like 1k per level till pretty darn close to 80. so that's like 1-2 weeks without really trying.

    you have to do something fairly unusual to get an azerite piece you can't unlock (after you do the free 50 quest).

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post





    How is AP farm not a thing on a fresh char? Your fresh level 120 starts with neck level 4-5. I'm not sure how much AP the "must to do" questlines give (opening up of nazjatar, getting the cloak), that you have to do anyways for essences and the cloak, but you can't just ignore your level 5 necklace and not do anyrthing about it. And if you want to level it, it's not like legion, when a handful of AP wq basically maxed it out for you.
    As someone who just leveled up a fresh toon I can tell you this a fresh toon doesnt really start at level 5 due to the Nazjatar part of the neck chain where you unlock essences. That will bring u up to level 50 into the neck automaticly. After that by the time you get done with the cloak u will be around level 66ish in the neck. If you do emissaries to get more of a catch up in gear I got to level 77 neck between Monday when I hit 120 and today. And most of that is just from quest chains

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