Currently WoW feels like one of the most anti-social games out there

[Sometus]

So what I am talking about is the current gearing system as well as the mindset of the people going into mythic+ and the experience of new players reaching the endgame. Without talking too long about it, pugging, from levelling to endgame, is currently an incredibly hostile, tense and unwelcoming place that can make wow so much worse of an experience than it has to be. It's no place for learning or to experience the content. Instead it is dominated by the GOGOGOGO attitude and hypercompetitive mindset that is encouraged by the community, no matter if it is normal, heroic, mythic 0, mythic+ (through which this mindset came to be).

So the big question is: Why not just join a guild? Now, here is where the problem goes a bit deeper. I tried joining guilds at many points in the past two expansions since the one I was raiding with before quit mid WoD. However, to join a guild now, you need to provide them with some sort of immediate use, mainly in terms of having high ilvl to begin with to justify them taking you in. And after that, unless you make a significant effort, you won't be in a clique in said guild that you can run dungeons with to gear up. So for the first time you will be alone and if you should get the short end of the stick and not be able to keep up with the gear the rest of your guild has you might be in trouble. Worst case you will fail your trial. I'd still try speaking with a officer in the guild or some other well connected person about it but sadly in a lot of guilds this attitude seems normal now.

In a way WoW really has become a place of survival and people being left behind if they don't commit themselves to the treadmill early enough in a patch, especially with essences and corruptions now. People who didn't grind in 8.2 now have major drawbacks since they are missing some essences or chances to get higher ranks.

To get higher gear you need to either pug or join a guild, but both of those possibilities require you to have high ilvl to begin with. For guilds its the reason that they want some immediate use out of you and not gear up a stranger if they don't know if you will stick with them. And for m+ since there is such a mass of people you need to overgear it to be accepted. And then the problem becomes that even if people have high ilvl, it doesn't mean they will play their class well. It's just a safety measure of "if he has higher ilvl it means he can put out more damage before he dies, so that we maybe get it done" (especially in +10s and higher where you have a harder time overgearing things because mechanics become punishing).

This is just my two cents but I really think there needs to be something done to incentivize to socialize or just have basic human empathy with others and encourage them to learn rather than the "just get ilvl somehow I don't care if you can play your class well" mentality. It is especially hostile to new players, which two friends who tried to get into wow endgame can attest to. Since the introduction of m+ in legion and the new quick way to access competitive pugable content this has really broken through and bfa has exaggerated it. Combine that with the overabundance of treadmills and the lack of emphasis of skill and you have a horrible experience for people who have not been in a strong tightly knit guild since before legion.

Thanks for reading!

[Big Thanks]

If you attach difficulty to content...i dont think there is ANY way to make it...well...unlike it is today.
Is just normal.

What could be done is create some kind of normal difficulty type of content and make "grouping" feel rewarding and fun.

Torghast seems like an AWESOME place for this...if Blizzard doesnt mess it up like Visions.

As for Leveling and new players.
Party-Sync is revolutionary to the genre and the best Blizzard invention in a long time. Is perfect
But
Now you need to make "grouping" feel fun and rewarding..in some way to new players.

[arkanon]

If you attach difficulty to content...i dont think there is ANY way to make it...well...unlike it is today.
Is just normal.

What could be done is create some kind of normal difficulty type of content and make "grouping" feel rewarding and fun.

Torghast seems like an AWESOME place for this...if Blizzard doesnt mess it up like Visions.

As for Leveling and new players.
Party-Sync is revolutionary to the genre and the best Blizzard invention in a long time. Is perfect
But
Now you need to make "grouping" feel fun and rewarding..in some way to new players.

Party sync isn't even NEW to the genre, let alone revolutionary.

And there is normal content for newer players to group up for - it's even in the name - Normal.

[Big Thanks]

Party sync isn't even NEW to the genre, let alone revolutionary.

Tell me another MMORPG where you can repeat ALL the quests you already completed with an underleveld person and be scaled to its level.

Lets test your brain...are you an expert when it comes to MMORPGs?

[Trend]

I tried joining guilds at many points in the past two expansions since the one I was raiding with before quit mid WoD. However, to join a guild now, you need to provide them with some sort of immediate use, mainly in terms of having high ilvl to begin with to justify them taking you in. And after that, unless you make a significant effort, you won't be in a clique in said guild that you can run dungeons with to gear up. So for the first time you will be alone and if you should get the short end of the stick and not be able to keep up with the gear the rest of your guild has you might be in trouble. Worst case you will fail your trial. I'd still try speaking with a officer in the guild or some other well connected person about it but sadly in a lot of guilds this attitude seems normal now.

Nothing has changed. It has always taken effort to find a group of people that is a good fit for you in terms of goals and personality. Many people simply are not willing to put in the time and effort to find that fit. And it is simply untrue that every guild is demanding immediate contribution. Lots of guilds are recruiting people for Shadowlands who are currently extremely undergeared.

And of course there are always going to be guilds that don't need people who can't contribute now. But that is not all there is.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Tell me another MMORPG where you can repeat ALL the quests you already completed with an underleveld person and be scaled to its level.

Lets test your brain...are you an expert when it comes to MMORPGs?

He didn't say anything about repeating already completed quests. He responded to your point about party sync being something "new" to the MMORPG genre, which it isn't.


You are trying to argue a point he didn't even bring up.


So "let's test your brain" and see if you can go back and apply reading comprehension.

[Big Thanks]

He didn't say anything about repeating already completed quests. He responded to your point about party sync being something "new" to the MMORPG genre, which it isn't.


You are trying to argue a point he didn't even bring up.

ROFLMAO, Party Sync allows you to complete any quest you already completed.

Yes, its revolutionary to the genre. Try again.

[Azerox]

Dunno i have almost always been in a Guild and i never missed the social aspect.
The times i did not i felt lonely indeed.
PuG is not my thing, unless its with a friend tank/heal.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

ROFLMAO, Party Sync allows you to complete any quest you already completed.

Yes, its revolutionary to the genre. Try again.

You said it's revolutionary and new. He said it isn't new.


And your genuine response is "lmao it is, try again"? I suppose you mean to say this is how you "feel" then?


What does anybody saying that party sync could be neither revolutionary or new have to do with it allowing you to re-do already completed quests? Again, what point that wasn't made are you trying to argue?


You can try again. It's ok.

[Thestrawman]

ROFLMAO, Party Sync allows you to complete any quest you already completed.

Yes, its revolutionary to the genre. Try again.

Final Fantasy XIV /endargument

[Big Thanks]

You said it's revolutionary and new. He said it isn't new.


And your genuine response is "lmao it is, try again"? I suppose you mean to say this is how you "feel" then?

The fact you can complete any quest you already completed makes it something EVERY MMORPG should have.

Because in other MMOs there are linear Questing progression...
And what ends up happening is Players need to say "goodbye" to "friends" mid leveling experience because they are on different parts of the game with different quests.

It fixes a major problem of EVERY MMO on the market, that i know of.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

The fact you can complete any quest you already completed makes it something EVERY MMORPG should have this Party-Sync Blizzard invented.

Because in other MMOs there are linear Questing progression...
And what ends up happening is Players need to say "goodbye" to "friends" mid leveling experience because they are on different parts of the game with different quests.

It fixes a major problem of EVERY MMO on the market.

Once again, how does this have to do with it. Not. Being. New?


Nobody here is arguing against party sync. You are MAKING an argument that doesn't exist in this thread.

[Lolites]

Once again, how does this have to do with it. Not. Being. New?


Nobody here is arguing against party sync. You are MAKING an argument that doesn't exist in this thread.

which is also nothing new

[Accendor]

What is really strange to me is how the process to find a guild has changed. It used to be "meet people that you like in PUGs and if multiple of them are from the same guild, maybe join that guild" while now it is "join a guild and then see if you like the people"

[Amariw]

Mostly agreed. Welcoming groups being rare is kinda endemic to WoW where gear matters so much, and isn't neccesarily the worst of issues, but a hostile environment that's unconductive to learning is.
I think at least part of this issue could be fixed by leveling having a more varied and "teaching"-esque difficulty curve. Maybe you could stay in the easy areas, but there will be non obligatory quests leading you to tougher challenges for the fun and xp, and those might have you face versus more then one elites, and minibosses with mechanics you actually have to respect/dodge/interrupt.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

What is really strange to me is how the process to find a guild has changed. It used to be "meet people that you like in PUGs and if multiple of them are from the same guild, maybe join that guild" while now it is "join a guild and then see if you like the people"

I would imagine cross-realm interactivity was a major factor. In instanced groups and in the open world as well.

[SirReal]

Once again, how does this have to do with it. Not. Being. New?


Nobody here is arguing against party sync. You are MAKING an argument that doesn't exist in this thread.

nah man. you're picking nits just to be contrarian. being able to replay quests already completed is literally the essence of party sync and something that was previously not possible.

grasping at semantics and creating strawmen is a weird way to spend your time.

[Nagawithlegs]

The fact that you just wrote paragraphs about how you MUST interact with people to do anything speaks volumes when the mass majority of other games where you interact with others are facilitated by matchmaking queues and feature disposable, faceless people you forget about after the game ends.

Can WoW stand to be more social and encourage socialization? Yes. Is it anti-social when interacting with others is core to the game and people have actual identities beyond "floating name above Counter Terrorist on de_dust"? Doubtful.

[Mysterymask]

ROFLMAO, Party Sync allows you to complete any quest you already completed.

Yes, its revolutionary to the genre. Try again.

FF14 was mentioned but City of Heroes also did it

[TheRevenantHero]

Tell me another MMORPG where you can repeat ALL the quests you already completed with an underleveld person and be scaled to its level.

Lets test your brain...are you an expert when it comes to MMORPGs?

WoW literally ripped the idea off from Guild Wars 2.