Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Elegiac]

Crash can really best be summed up as "why racism is bad, as written by casual racists who don't think they're racist". The movie ignores systemic racism and the massive consequences thereof entirely by trying to make the issue about random petty abuses and that's it and we can just hug it out and it's fine.

Fuck. That. Noise.

In a strange way I am actually glad that movie exists for that precise reason, if only because it gives film studies students something besides Birth of a Nation to use as an example of how ingrained racism is in American (and Western, more generally) culture.

There is no better thing to point to as a demonstration of the myth of racism as a function of bad people, rather than a system of oppression.

[PC2]

Im...what? Im struggling to think of one country where what you are saying is true.

I'm talking about every country throughout time. Anytime violence is the solution to a dispute then that means at least 1 of the parties chose a sup-optimal option for which there was a better option.

[Crissi]

I'm talking about every country throughout time. Anytime violence is the solution to a dispute then that means at least 1 of the parties chose an sup-optimal option for which there was a better option.

AKA human nature happened. Sorry that our very essence isn't completely logical, but you need to accept that.

[Elegiac]

I'm talking about every country throughout time. Anytime violence is the solution to a dispute then that means at least 1 of the parties chose an sup-optimal option for which there was a better option.

Wow, this as groundbreaking an argument as stating everything that isn't an orange is a non-orange.

[Freighter]

I'm talking about every country throughout time. Anytime violence is the solution to a dispute then that means at least 1 of the parties chose an sup-optimal option for which there was a better option.

Haha, yeah dude. We should just have let the communists control the whole peninsula instead of fighting back.

[Machismo]

I'm talking about every country throughout time. Anytime violence is the solution to a dispute then that means at least 1 of the parties chose an sup-optimal option for which there was a better option.

I'm still waiting on the evidence for that.

I guess the United States shouldn't have retaliated after Pearl Harbor... right?

[eschatological]

That doesn't mean that the violent option was ever optimal and necessary to achieve that result. Anything that can be accomplished through force could've been accomplished better by consent.

So......."Violence was okay for us, but now that we own and control everything, better be kind and peaceful to us!"

I consider myself a pacifist, but I'm over the idea that the minority seeking his rights has to "be better" than the racist expectations of their oppressors. The first blac President elected was perhaps the most moral man ever to hold that office, and he was harangued by racists and birthers for 8 years based on the color of his skin, and for daring to show sympathy to Trayvon Martin.

Much like the current debate in the Democratic party, the wrongdoers will paint you as socialist/inferior/whatever no matter what you do......so fuck trying to appeal to their sensibilities.

[PACOX]

Some people need just accept that people are mad for good reason, that they could not possibly know what it's like to be black in America while constantly having to put up with this systemic nonsense, and maybe they should just get out of the way if they have nothing supportive to say.

[Grapemask]

I think Endus already brought up MLK Jr's "a riot is the language of the unheard" quote. It's apt.

I'm reminded of when I was a kid. My brother would shove me in the shoulder - not painfully, just enough to stop whatever I was doing. He'd poke me in the gut - also not painfully, but enough to make me recoil. He kick my foot off the table I had it propped up on. He'd accidentally step on my feet. Stupid little things, over and over and over, for the entirety of an afternoon. Then he'd finally push a little too hard a little too much, and I'd punch him in the face, he'd scream as if he'd been stabbed, my mom would come into the room, and I'd get grounded for a week.

The people crying about the riots are a lot like my brother. Which isn't to say riots are good, to be clear.

But I especially enjoy the "only peaceful protests are okay" people. Because if we made a venn diagram of these people and the people who also complain about sitting for the National Anthem, it would be a circle. Let's not pretend that it's the form of the protest that's the problem, it's that they dare protest at all.

[Elegiac]

I’m not racist, tho.

That's a hard no.

You are. Everyone is, because we live in a racist system - the difference is that I actually try to reflect on what racist viewpoints I might have internalised as a result.

That is what being "woke" means, nothing more.

[Kumorii]

Some people need just accept that people are mad for good reason, that they could not possibly know what it's like to be black in America while constantly having to put up with this systemic nonsense, and maybe they should just get out of the way if they have nothing supportive to say.

They are mad for good reasons. Doesn't mean you have to condone destruction of property of innocents.

[Freighter]

That's a hard no.

You are. Everyone is, because we live in a racist system - the difference is that I actually try to reflect on what racist viewpoints I might have internalised as a result.

Like I said, you have a very weird idea of what racism actually is.

[Kumorii]

That's a hard no.

You are. Everyone is, because we live in a racist system - the difference is that I actually try to reflect on what racist viewpoints I might have internalised as a result.

That is what being "woke" means, nothing more.

what racist viewpoints do you have?

[eschatological]

The best way to obtain independence is through non-violent problem solving between the parties. Violence is never necessary.

I am from the only country in the world who claims to have won their Independence peacefully, India. Lots is made of Gandhi's nonviolent revolution.

But Indian Independence had multiple violent flashpoints, starting with the Sepoy Mutiny, and ending with the British effectively being so utterly destroyed by WW2 that they just gave up on controlling India. There's a reason India's independence came in 1947 instead of, say, 1937.

[Grimbold21]

I’m not racist, tho.

Acknowledge your white privilege and proceed to engage in an exercise of white guilt self flagelation.

Or else...

[Elegiac]

what racist viewpoints do you have?

Fewer than I used to; I used to be much less...informed...about subjects relating to colonialism, Islam, et cetera. Then there's all the subtle ways in which you can be racist without realising - getting nervous when you see a black man wearing certain clothing, for instance. Or realising you pay more attention to bad drivers that are Asian, even though there's no evidence supporting either feeling.

That's the tricky thing; these systems survive because the things which underpin them are designed so that they can be easily internalised and lived with unless you take a good, hard look at yourself and society.

I am not saying I am perfect, by any means. But I know I'm better than certain clowns who seem to think this is a post-racial society.

[Gamevizier]

I can't be the only one who sees that the problem is much bigger than the person on the video and the other cops that were in that vicinity and did nothing.

The person who murdered (yes, murdered) the black citizen not only used excessive, unreasonable force but he also did it with no justification. from the other footage it doesn't seem that the person was resisting arrest. and the cop literally ignored the victim's plea (you don't have to be a genius to understand what "I can't breathe" means, It was clear that the victim was in no position to cause any harm and yet it is obvious that the method of restraining used was very dangerous and even lethal.

The actual problem is that the cop had a track record of misuse of force, and they were reported and documented but they were all waived off and no disciplinary action was taken. This is the main issue, The system is not doing any disciplinary action unless the shit hits the fan and they fire the person or prosecute them to "set an example" but the police force is not these people who take it to the extreme. The Police Force is a much bigger institution and this institution needs much, much stricter disciplinary measures and supervision. Cops needs to be better monitored to see if they are even mentally capable enough to do their duty without conducting unprofessional behavior.

We don't need the Police Department to just fire and prosecute these people. That will not bring George back, or any other person who dies or gets hurt to these misconducts. We need our government to actually do it's job and screen and supervise the police force better and prevent horrible things like these from happening.

[eschatological]

Crash can really best be summed up as "why racism is bad, as written by casual racists who don't think they're racist". The movie ignores systemic racism and the massive consequences thereof entirely by trying to make the issue about random petty abuses and that's it and we can just hug it out and it's fine.

Fuck. That. Noise.

FWIW, I don't consider Crash as the product of "casual racists," even with the weird Middle Eastern/South Asian gun buying guy. It's ignorant, but I doubt it's willfully ignorant. I say that not knowing anything about the people who made the movie, just on my one eyeroll-inducing viewing of the movie. They used to show it in school for its "anti-racism message" if you can believe that shit.

Ignorance can be fixed. Willful ignorance is the more drastic, dire, intractable problem.

[Elegiac]

You may feel that way about yourself and others, but I certainly don’t share this view and I’m not racist in any way.

Shocker, the person I'm saying is not cognizant of their own internalized racism is telling me they aren't aware of any internalized racism.

May I interest you in a non-orange in this trying time?

[Elegiac]

The belief that you and others are put at greater risk by being in the company of a suspicious looking black man, rather by calling the police in the United States, is also a great example.

It's categorically counterfactual, but is so commonly believed it isn't questioned.