Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Laughingjack]

I bitch about capitalism all the time.

Hint: I am, and my family is, very successful. We are literally in the 1%. My father came to this country with $20, and made it. But he was always very clear: he could succeed because he was given opportunity in our home country (India) that he would have NEVER gotten here. Back when India was a poor, firmly 3rd world country, and decidedly socialist, they determined that anyone with the intellectual merit can and should have a university education. So my dad, who grew up in poverty Americans couldn't even understand, got to attend and graduate from the national university, with honors, and without debt. And then could become a CPA off of that. After which he came to the U.S. for his MBA. Had he started in the U.S., he would have been mired in a cycle of debt and poverty that likely would have killed his American Dream. I grew up in the ghetto. But I knew we were getting out, so I never gave in to it, and I had that knowledge not because of the opportunity America gave us - but because of the opportunity India gave us.

Capitalism, as implemented in the US, is a crony system of oligarchy, that serves only one purpose: to make the rich richer. I don't have to work another day in my life if I don't want to, because I could literally liquidate all my assets, put it into a low yield bond, and live off the non-taxed interest for the rest of my life, at a "salary" higher than 90% of the population......and make money doing it. It is a broken system.

And it disproportionately negatively affects black and latino communities, who are, because of historical reasons, more likely to start in that cycle of violence and poverty.

I will admit it is a flaw of capitalism that there isn't a way to start everyone off at zero. It has its flaws but I can't really see socialism as a long term system. It requires a truly massive level of investment that makes it far more prone to collapse.

I don't really know how I stand on free education. I went to public schooling and was considered a "success" by their standards only to struggle in a private university. I did succeed but it required me to take a additional year to simply be on the levels of my peers before I could properly presume my discipline,

[PACOX]

Hold on a minute. I criticize the theoretical notion that a white individual must acknowledge their inherent racism, and on your first phrase you accuse me of "crying about being a suspected racist"? Am I misreading your post somehow here?

What racist thing was I doing or saying?

As I said on my previous post, this thing about fragility is the same cheap tactic and logical fallacy people use countless times as means to undermine character. I'm criticizing a theory about white guilt, ergo I'm fragile.

Easy, isn't it?

Moreover, you will note that I did not remark on the actual content of this thread, but on a specific point being made.

How can you not see that you're just validating the point?

Its like you're choosing this hill because you know someone it applies to. Someone you respect but don't want accept a certain part of them.

[Kumorii]

You're not doing anything beyond arguing with people on a forum and attempting to appear smug while claiming you are so against racism and care so much about minorities.

I'm calling bullshit on it. I've seen this act too many times. You people always turn out to be some of the worst racists with your condescension bar the violent and discrimination ones.

He/she already came out saying that he has racist viewpoints... so I mean, yeah.

[Grimbold21]

"So, you see there's no way out. Either way, you're guilty" isn't criticism, Karen. It's bitching about how oppressed you are.

It is criticism and the consequent responses are a reflection of the statement made and quoted.

There is no way out. Within that framework, a white individual needs to acknowledge their racist baggage that they carry on account of simply being white.

If they do not, they are ignorant and uneducated about the way the world seemingly works.

If they do not and argue agaisnt, they continue to be those things and, in addition, are fragile.

That, to me, seems like a conveniently narrow conceptual space into which one puts their targets.

[eschatological]

I will admit it is a flaw of capitalism that there isn't a way to start everyone off at zero. It has its flaws but I can't really see socialism as a long term system. It requires a truly massive level of investment that makes it far more prone to collapse.

I don't really know how I stand on free education. I went to public schooling and was considered a "success" by their standards only to struggle in a private university. I did succeed but it required me to take a additional year to simply be on the levels of my peers before I could properly presume my discipline,

Simple solution:

Reparations.

Don't bring everyone down to zero....let oppressed people share, with interest, the profits made off their slavery.

But that'll never happen because it was SUCH a staggering crime against humanity that the cost in reparations would cost trillions of dollars.

[Grimbold21]

How can you not see that you're just validating the point?

What point? About fragility?

I explained it.

Criticism or push back is intentionally being conflated with an intellectual and moral inferior position of fragility.

[Freighter]

Both sides are wrong

Definition of fence sitting.

As if there's only 2 sides.

[Kumorii]

Both sides are wrong

Definition of fence sitting.

You think there is only pro-cop or looters? There isn't any protesters who doesn't loot and destroy things?

In fact, I'm gonna give you something more. I don't care if they destroy government property. This is a protest against systemic oppression within a government branch. Destroying their shit makes sense... destroying someone elses who is not, doesn't. That's opportunists and spits on the victim.

Have you tried having more nuanced thoughts than just black and white sides? All you are doing is showing how narrow your mind is when it comes to the situation.

[eschatological]

It is criticism and the consequent responses are a reflection of the statement made and quoted.

There is no way out. Within that framework, a white individual needs to acknowledge their racist baggage that they carry on account of simply being white.

If they do not, they are ignorant and uneducated about the way the seemingly works.

If they do not and argue agaisnt, they continue to be those things and, in addition, are fragile.

That, to me, seems like a conveniently narrow conceptual space into which one puts their targets.

The difference is: acknowledging the racist system you are born into and the privilege you have, leads to forgiveness and reconciliation.

It's not a matter of lambasting and pointing out "HAHAHA you admitted you're racist!" it's about moving through it, while acknowledging it with humility, and working hand in hand with those who were born without that privilege.

It happened in South Africa with Reconciliation, and in Germany post-Holocaust.

[Elegiac]

It would likely be bullshit anyways.

Duh. I get that you're just going to raise the burden of proof constantly because you've decided that people being upset about racism is somehow the worst thing.

1) I'm lao.

And Phyllis Schlafly was a woman.

2) I said you people always turn out to be some of the worst racists bar the ones discriminating and using violence. Nothing but virtue signals from your camp. This isn't some reverse racism accusations, every time some white guy claims to be "anti racist" they've turned out to be some of the nastiest racists.

"You are the actual racist" is an accusation of 'reverse racism', and a pretty limp dick argument too since it's nothing but ad hominem anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

It is criticism and the consequent responses are a reflection of the statement made and quoted.

There is no way out. Within that framework, a white individual needs to acknowledge their racist baggage that they carry on account of simply being white.

Well done, Foucault. You've successfully identified prison as a prison.

It's almost as if racist systems are almost equally as shitty for most people they ostensibly benefit too, huh?

[Jotaux]

Reverse racism isn't a thing, its quite simply racism.

[Themius]

It is criticism and the consequent responses are a reflection of the statement made and quoted.

There is no way out. Within that framework, a white individual needs to acknowledge their racist baggage that they carry on account of simply being white.

If they do not, they are ignorant and uneducated about the way the world seemingly works.

If they do not and argue agaisnt, they continue to be those things and, in addition, are fragile.

That, to me, seems like a conveniently narrow conceptual space into which one puts their targets.

No it is you complaining...

It’s like straight people complaining about being accused of homophobia for being homophobic.

[Elegiac]

The difference is: acknowledging the racist system you are born into and the privilege you have, leads to forgiveness and reconciliation.

It's not a matter of lambasting and pointing out "HAHAHA you admitted you're racist!" it's about moving through it, while acknowledging it with humility, and working hand in hand with those who were born without that privilege.

It happened in South Africa with Reconciliation, and in Germany post-Holocaust.

That's what these people fundamentally don't get.

The urgency is a function of it being a social wound - but you cannot treat an injury that people continually insist doesn't exist.

It's a Black Knight scenario.



Listen you stupid bastards, your arm's off.

[Laughingjack]

Simple solution:

Reparations.

Don't bring everyone down to zero....let oppressed people share, with interest, the profits made off their slavery.

But that'll never happen because it was SUCH a staggering crime against humanity that the cost in reparations would cost trillions of dollars.

I think that would be utterly disastrous...

I also don't really think we could extract that much wealth from africa. I mean yes they were the greatest slaver empire in history but that tree has been tapped. Worse simply giving someone money who has no idea how to use that money would be a minor windfall they would spend immediately on frivolous things.

[Grimbold21]

The difference is: acknowledging the racist system you are born into and the privilege you have, leads to forgiveness and reconciliation.

It's not a matter of lambasting and pointing out "HAHAHA you admitted you're racist!" it's about moving through it, while acknowledging it with humility, and working hand in hand with those who were born without that privilege.

It happened in South Africa with Reconciliation, and in Germany post-Holocaust.

Except the acknowledgement of the historical baggage of your respective country isn't synonymous with engaging in an exercise of self flagellation because of your race.

I'm European, and I'm Portuguese. All that I find required of myself is understanding that Portuguese history and that of the Empire wasn't a marvelous journey of bravery and perseverance. It was war, death and exploitation. Glory often is.

That's all that I need. I'm not going to engage in any further punishment.

[PC2]

I bitch about capitalism all the time.

Hint: I am, and my family is, very successful. We are literally in the 1%. My father came to this country with $20, and made it. But he was always very clear: he could succeed because he was given opportunity in our home country (India) that he would have NEVER gotten here. Back when India was a poor, firmly 3rd world country, and decidedly socialist, they determined that anyone with the intellectual merit can and should have a university education. So my dad, who grew up in poverty Americans couldn't even understand, got to attend and graduate from the national university, with honors, and without debt. And then could become a CPA off of that. After which he came to the U.S. for his MBA. Had he started in the U.S., he would have been mired in a cycle of debt and poverty that likely would have killed his American Dream. I grew up in the ghetto. But I knew we were getting out, so I never gave in to it, and I had that knowledge not because of the opportunity America gave us - but because of the opportunity India gave us.

Capitalism, as implemented in the US, is a crony system of oligarchy, that serves only one purpose: to make the rich richer. I don't have to work another day in my life if I don't want to, because I could literally liquidate all my assets, put it into a low yield bond, and live off the non-taxed interest for the rest of my life, at a "salary" higher than 90% of the population......and make money doing it. It is a broken system.

And it disproportionately negatively affects black and latino communities, who are, because of historical reasons, more likely to start in that cycle of violence and poverty.

Okay but how is this relevant? Capitalism is chugging along fine and there aren't any systemic LE problems unless people can be more specific about the policies and metrics.

[Freighter]

It happened in South Africa with Reconciliation

I'm not sure South Africa is a good example.

[Grimbold21]

It’s like straight people complaining about being accused of homophobia for being homophobic.

I write posts about conflations, intellectual dishonesty, and logical fallacies.

And you reply with that. Then again, we two have been on this merry-go-around with all the "statistical discrepancies are direct evidence of discrimination" nonsense.

[Elegiac]

Except the acknowledgement of the historical baggage of your respective country isn't synonymous with engaging in an exercise of self flagellation because of your race.

That you're equating any of what is being called for here as "self-flagellation" is why you're being accused of White Fragility.

But yes, do go on about how awful it is to have to briefly self-reflect for twenty minutes and how that is a form of torture on par with what minorities in the US experience.

I'm European, and I'm Portuguese. All that I find required of myself is understanding that Portuguese history and that of the Empire wasn't a marvelous journey of bravery and perseverance. It was war, death and exploitation. Glory often is.

Reducing colonialism to "glory" shows that no, Becky, you have in fact not actually achieved any level of self-actualization regarding colonialism.

[Grimbold21]

Well done, Foucault. You've successfully identified prison as a prison.

It's almost as if racist systems are almost equally as shitty for most people they ostensibly benefit too, huh?

Sure thing, if I were to accept this framework.