Why aren't Tauren and Draenei just Neutral?

[Harbinger D]

Imagine a bunch of people just showed up where you live and set up camp, on top of that they brought a trail of death with them. I doubt you would welcome them with open arms.

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Kil'jaeden needed a public figure to unite the orcs against the draenei, so he started whispering to Gul'dan.

Wrong. Kil'jaeden contacted Nerzuhl in the form of his mate. Through Nerzuhls deep respect for his ancestors Kil'jaedin manipulated him into thinking the Draenei were evil. Thats when Nerzuhl rallied the orcs to attack them first. It wasn't until Nerzuhl realized that Kil'jaedin looked like the Draenei that he went to commune with the ancestors at Oshugun where he found out the truth. The ancestors never told him to kill the Draenei, it was Kil'jaedin all along. After he refused to continue, Gildan willing followed Kil'jaedin since he would do anything for power.

[msdos]

Tauren and Dwarves need a lot more love in this game. Dark Iron was a good start. Need Wild Hammer. I also wish they had more variation for tauren, like a shorter tauren or more lean like the Spirit Walker.

[Highelf]

I've seen some interesting arguments here coming from the Horde sympathizers. I read an argument that Night Elves Highborne are the most evil race of all, causing the most damage to everything because of the War of the Ancients they caused 10,000 years ago. I feel like this is the Warcraft version of "THANKS OBAMA!" as the Horde sympathizers continue to reach for straws regarding Alliance vs Horde morality comparisons. Blood Elves and Nightborne are also Highborne. So um... well this is awkward -- do I engage in that leap of mental gymnastics and blame the Horde for that too, like the Alliance somehow got blamed for? Nah, Horde are evil enough by their own merits, that won't be necessary.

Also, the Alliance is for some odd reason, consistently blamed for the actions of the "last general" of Laurderon, Garithos's actions against the Blood Elves. Garithos is Laurderon. Laurderon is Horde. Anything Laurderon did, is a Horde issue since Laurderon is Horde. Imagine all the Forsaken the Blood Elves regularly interact with that helped slaughter them in WC3. Damn that Alliance, though!

The Blood Elves left the Alliance because of Laurderon and the slaughter they narrowly escaped because of Laurderon, only to join Laurderon and their slaughterers in Burning Crusade. Logic.

Anyhow, this:

This picture is great but it left out the bombing of an innocent school of young NE Druids. But, knowing horde players they'll come up with an excuse: "well they were spying on us..."

[Ardenaso]

I'm not sure I really buy the whole "its the Draenei's fault the Legion got to Draenor" logic. I mean what were the Draenei supposed to do? I presume they needed resources so survive and its hardly reasonable to expect them to commit suicide just so when the constantly expanding Legion finds a new world they aren't technically culpable.

They should've at least warned the orcs and ogres about the impending threat of the Legion and its manipulation threats

[Alvito]

Wrong. Kil'jaeden contacted Nerzuhl in the form of his mate. Through Nerzuhls deep respect for his ancestors Kil'jaedin manipulated him into thinking the Draenei were evil. Thats when Nerzuhl rallied the orcs to attack them first. It wasn't until Nerzuhl realized that Kil'jaedin looked like the Draenei that he went to commune with the ancestors at Oshugun where he found out the truth. The ancestors never told him to kill the Draenei, it was Kil'jaedin all along. After he refused to continue, Gildan willing followed Kil'jaedin since he would do anything for power.

That was pulled from wowwikki I think so feel free to let them know they are wrong.

[Syegfryed]

Definition of coward - "A person who is contemptibly lacking in the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things."

Literally by definition not Baine. He stood up to a psychopathic genocidal maniac for his beliefs in peace and to avoid yet more needless death. Quite literally the opposite of what you've said. Some of the bravest people in history have been peaceful people who defied their masters and have died for it, all to defend their beliefs. No different to Baine story wise.

Baine lacks the courage to defy Sylvanas, he stood up to a psychopathic genocidal maniac for FEAR

He endured shit until something bad was done to the brother of the enemy, not because she genocide the night elves, a race who was supposed to be friends of the tauren to an extend, not because she killed his people in undercity with blight, not because she dragged the horde to another dark path of pointless war

His breaking point was exactly when Jaina, his alliance friend, was in game.

Before he also had exiled his people by rightful wanting vengeance against the alliance who killed their civilians and didn't defy Garrosh by fear

Baine is a mockery of the tauren people

[Syegfryed]

You should google the difference between bravery and courage. Baine has the greater of these two qualities. Bravery is the lack of fear that leads to an act. Courage is doing something despite being scared or fearing it. Baine is afraid of Sylvanas, obviously? Shes a psychopathic genocidal maniac as you said, yet he still stands up to her, thats COURAGE, how you cannot respect that quality in his character I dont know?

thats not courage, thats a completely a retard atitute because you fear of her

He didn't stand up to her, he stand up with her, being conniving with every evil she did, because she fear her, my ass that was "courage"

He endured all the things you said until he couldnt take it anymore, afaik he did express his disagreement throughout all of these acts. You cant blame someone for being afraid to stand up to someone, especially when their peoples lives also hinge on their actions.

And he endure all the shit, the genocide, killing of his people, but when Sylvanas was dealing with Jaina brother?

WAOW WAOW, THATS TOO FAR, THAT IS NOT WHAT THE HORDE IS, IF YOU WERE JUST KILLING MY PEOPLE, I WOULD BE FINE, BUT THIS? THIS IS NOT OK!!!!!

He also exiled the tauren who wanted vengeance, exactly what goes against Tauren values, hatred etc.

Thats not what tauren culture values, taurens are not monks, they were passionate creatures who kill their anemies, that include the alliance, especielly the alliance who kill their people

Hes the leader, he accepts his Tauren were killed by the allied war machine, but thats the hordes fault for instigating the war in the first place, thats like saying germans want revenge on the allies for killing german soldiers and bombing german civilians during ww2. NOT how it works dude, THEY started the war.

Are you smoking something? that was not the horde fault

Baine by every definition and from his story telling clearly is wise and courageous.

like i said, he is a coward and a mockery of the tauren people

[Trassk]

thats not courage, thats a completely a retard atitute because you fear of her

He didn't stand up to her, he stand up with her, being conniving with every evil she did, because she fear her, my ass that was "courage"


And he endure all the shit, the genocide, killing of his people, but when Sylvanas was dealing with Jaina brother?

WAOW WAOW, THATS TOO FAR, THAT IS NOT WHAT THE HORDE IS, IF YOU WERE JUST KILLING MY PEOPLE, I WOULD BE FINE, BUT THIS? THIS IS NOT OK!!!!!


Thats not what tauren culture values, taurens are not monks, they were passionate creatures who kill their anemies, that include the alliance, especielly the alliance who kill their people


Are you smoking something? that was not the horde fault



like i said, he is a coward and a mockery of the tauren people

Gotta love that twisted logic just to try and form reality around to fit your narrative.

[Syegfryed]

Gotta love that twisted logic just to try and form reality around to fit your narrative.

gotta love those one line posts trying to be clever and edgy against someone else

ow shit, i did myself

[Beej]

thats not courage, thats a completely a retard atitute because you fear of her

Yeah no, that is exactly what courage is. You are wrong.

[mickybrighteyes]

The Draenei share a religion with Humans (and a lot of other Alliance races that are Light followers)

This isn't exactly true. They both follow and believe in the light but it's one thing to, say, believe in Jesus and another to literally follow the equivalent of an archangel and the living prophet of 'god'. The religions are similar but I wouldn't say they're the same.

On topic. Tauren and Draenei aren't neutral for various other lore points taking place outside the lore. Baine might be more peace minded and open to the alliance but the clans under him are likely not at all of the same mind. Grimtotems may have worked with the alliance in the past but that was more due to them having issues against Baine and the tauren society already. Stonespire clan... well... they can't talk much more can they? *looks at Bael Modan*... the rest of the clans aren't getting much face time either.

also Tauren lean to the horde largely due to Thrall and his actions in the founding of durotar. Where the horde helped get them to mulgore and away from centaur, we had dwarven forces desecrating graves and wiping out at least one clan. (and this happening in the more recent history since these were interactions taking place after Cairne was aided in the events of the founding of durotar)

Draenei are weird. they're made "too kind" almost and add in their relation to the eredar of the burning legion they should have a very unique and interesting take on how to view and interact with orcs. Not just "remember the path of glory" mindset because they too should know the pull of the legion as they experienced it first hand and brought it to draenor to begin with...

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Literally by definition not Baine. He stood up to a psychopathic genocidal maniac for his beliefs in peace and to avoid yet more needless death.

Except he lied in the process. He only "stood up" when he was cornered...

Quite literally the opposite of what you've said. Some of the bravest people in history have been peaceful people who defied their masters and have died for it,

i mean... Baine killed horde forces before the whole loyalist bullshit was establish. He deemed members of that crew to be too loyal and had them killed with only the champion to hear this.

This is another problem. the difference between Patriots and Traitors is the belief of those who view them. Baine in this storyline still attacked horde crew, killed horde personnel, stole a horde vessel... and LIED about it for as long as he could.

[Syegfryed]

Yeah no, that is exactly what courage is. You are wrong.

so courage is being conniving with all of her atrocities and only stepping up because your enemy friend is on game and because they caught you doing so

courage would not be step up against her killing his own people or genocide the elves, sure, so brave Baine

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This is another problem. the difference between Patriots and Traitors is the belief of those who view them. Baine in this storyline still attacked horde crew, killed horde personnel, stole a horde vessel... and LIED about it for as long as he could.

And i didn't even remember that, dude only "step up" when was caught without his pants, if no one noticed he would still keep going LOL

[Magnagarde]

Both the draenei and the blood elves should've been neutral in my opinion, but the story of how Alliance high elves were swapped for draenei and how Horde ogres were swapped for blood elves was already told a thousand times.

[Mungho]

Both the draenei and the blood elves should've been neutral in my opinion, but the story of how Alliance high elves were swapped for draenei and how Horde ogres were swapped for blood elves was already told a thousand times.

Is that true? I always heard that blood elves were always going to be the new horde race in BC at the request of east-asian players who wanted a cute race for their girlfriends to play on horde. Pandaren where going to be the alliance race, then they were changed to firbolg, and then at the last minute to draenei.

[mickybrighteyes]

Is that true? I always heard that blood elves were always going to be the new horde race in BC at the request of east-asian players who wanted a cute race for their girlfriends to play on horde. Pandaren where going to be the alliance race, then they were changed to firbolg, and then at the last minute to draenei.

if that;s true then the handling of player race options has been poorly handled indeed.

[Gann Stonespire]

You should google the difference between bravery and courage. Baine has the greater of these two qualities. Bravery is the lack of fear that leads to an act. Courage is doing something despite being scared or fearing it. Baine is afraid of Sylvanas, obviously? Shes a psychopathic genocidal maniac as you said, yet he still stands up to her, thats COURAGE, how you cannot respect that quality in his character I dont know?

He endured all the things you said until he couldnt take it anymore, afaik he did express his disagreement throughout all of these acts. You cant blame someone for being afraid to stand up to someone, especially when their peoples lives also hinge on their actions.

He also exiled the tauren who wanted vengeance, exactly what goes against Tauren values, hatred etc. Hes the leader, he accepts his Tauren were killed by the allied war machine, but thats the hordes fault for instigating the war in the first place, thats like saying germans want revenge on the allies for killing german soldiers and bombing german civilians during ww2. NOT how it works dude, THEY started the war.

Baine by every definition and from his story telling clearly is wise and courageous.

You do realize that the military troops the tauren of Vendetta point were attacking, were still killing tauren and trying to break into Mulgore.

And thats false, infact a tauren himself says retribution is a part of the Tauren and Horde Culture in WOTLK.

Baine himself was going to reinforce Vendetta point before Golden ruined him.

[cparle87]

Or better solution, no garrosh

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Burning Legion would of invaded Dreanor eventually regardless and the Orcs made a road of thier skulls so......even i guess?

Yeah, but Kil'jaeden found the planet because of draenei and only set things up for the orcs to be brainwashed so they could be used to wipe out the draenei. Without draenei orcs would probably still be leaving well, as peacefully as they can with the ogres, breakers, primals, and arakkoa around, as they can.

[Newname1234567890]

Yeah, but Kil'jaeden found the planet because of draenei and only set things up for the orcs to be brainwashed so they could be used to wipe out the draenei. Without draenei orcs would probably still be leaving well, as peacefully as they can with the ogres, breakers, primals, and arakkoa around, as they can.

The Legion would have got there eventually, probably not long after they did in the MU (certainly within the time peroid between Warcraft 1 and WoW Shadowlands) since aggramar became a Legion slave.

[Syegfryed]

The Legion would have got there eventually, probably not long after they did in the MU (certainly within the time peroid between Warcraft 1 and WoW Shadowlands) since aggramar became a Legion slave.

then there is no point in blaming the orcs about killing the draeneis, since the legion would eventually kill then anyway

[Newname1234567890]

then there is no point in blaming the orcs about killing the draeneis, since the legion would eventually kill then anyway

Not really? The Legion getting to Dreanor is inevitable the Legion winning isn't (see WoD). Also the Space Goats were passive and the orcs did a genocide.