Why aren't Tauren and Draenei just Neutral?

[Lord Pebbleton]

I don't think Blizzard is capable of writing a convincting conflict to justify the draenei's and tauren's part in picking sides. Lately, if they want to make a faction or allied race side with horde or alliance, they just make the other one behave in a mean way.
For example, vulpera siding with horde because "they helped them". I main a dwarf and admittedly I did not help the vulpera, so what? I did not slaughter them either. At least the massively cringy "vulpera purge squad" got scrapped afaik.
Or that one time when Thalyssra forgot about me being exalted with her people just because Tyrande told her baddie things.

I will forever be sad to see the tauren dragged around fighing a war that is not theirs anymore, but it's still better than having Blizzard putting their hands on it if these premises are anything to go by.

[Donald Hellscream]

Because the Draenei crash land on Azeroth after forced to Evacuate Tempest Keep after Kal'thas and his cronies invaded it, now of course the Draenei had no clue about Azerothian politics, but I don't imagine they'd be too thrilled about working with Blood elves, seeing as it was Blood elves who caused them to crash land on Azeroth in the first place.

[cparle87]

The Legion would have got there eventually, probably not long after they did in the MU (certainly within the time peroid between Warcraft 1 and WoW Shadowlands) since aggramar became a Legion slave.

Not saying they wouldn't have. Just that the reason they did find it, the reason the orcs got corrupted and used, and the reason Outland is now a smoldering wreck, is because the draenei were there. Also don't forget it's flat out said in one of Velen's stories that there were many times they settled on a world, Velen got a vision that the Legion was coming, and they got out of dodge just before the Legion destroyed the world. Want to wager none of those worlds they settled on over 25,000 years had intelligent life?

[Kyux]

I think the simplest answer is because they are supporting their allies. The Draenei were aided by the Alliance and return the favour by supporting them in war. The Tauren were aided by Thrall and repaid the favour by joining the Horde. Then I imagine there's a bit of a cycle. They help their faction to repay the favour, during which they suffer new losses, grow closer to their new allies, and grow to dislike the other faction. By this stage I think the two races have enough reasons to dislike the other faction.

[Saltysquidoon]

Not saying they wouldn't have. Just that the reason they did find it, the reason the orcs got corrupted and used, and the reason Outland is now a smoldering wreck, is because the draenei were there. Also don't forget it's flat out said in one of Velen's stories that there were many times they settled on a world, Velen got a vision that the Legion was coming, and they got out of dodge just before the Legion destroyed the world. Want to wager none of those worlds they settled on over 25,000 years had intelligent life?

There is no way of ascribing that to the Draenei for multiple reasons: First, it is not a victim's fault they were attacked*; Second, the legion would have come in the end; Third, from a utilitarian perspective every world attack by the legion because of the draenei is one less world somewhere else that got attacked; Finally, the naaru told velen to keep running.

*Muh Eredar isn't a reason here, the legion is run by a titan and made up of at least 12 races.

[cparle87]

There is no way of ascribing that to the Draenei for multiple reasons: First, it is not a victim's fault they were attacked*; Second, the legion would have come in the end; Third, from a utilitarian perspective every world attack by the legion because of the draenei is one less world somewhere else that got attacked; Finally, the naaru told velen to keep running.

*Muh Eredar isn't a reason here, the legion is run by a titan and made up of at least 12 races.

If you know you're being persued by an army who will burn and kill everyone around you if they find you, I'd consider it criminally irresponsible to deliberately hang around places where there's other people who could be caught up in it.

[Hitei]

I don't think Blizzard is capable of writing a convincting conflict to justify the draenei's and tauren's part in picking sides. Lately, if they want to make a faction or allied race side with horde or alliance, they just make the other one behave in a mean way.
For example, vulpera siding with horde because "they helped them". I main a dwarf and admittedly I did not help the vulpera, so what? I did not slaughter them either. At least the massively cringy "vulpera purge squad" got scrapped afaik.
Or that one time when Thalyssra forgot about me being exalted with her people just because Tyrande told her baddie things.

I will forever be sad to see the tauren dragged around fighing a war that is not theirs anymore, but it's still better than having Blizzard putting their hands on it if these premises are anything to go by.

The entire Nightborne situation was mishandled. There was already the perfect setup for the Nightborne to join the Horde in a reasonable manner, if they had just had the remnants of Elisande's Duskwatch forces be the ones who join the Horde instead of the Nightfallen.

[Saltysquidoon]

If you know you're being persued by an army who will burn and kill everyone around you if they find you, I'd consider it criminally irresponsible to deliberately hang around places where there's other people who could be caught up in it.

The legion's stated sole objective is the destruction of all life, Draenor was caught up in it the second Sargeras flipped the table. If you want to ignore the lore and the games essentially being written in opposite (chronological) directions the orcs were lucky the draenei were there and KJ wanted them for his needlessly complex plot instead of just giving the planet the 'usual' legion treatment.

[Syegfryed]

Syegfryed, you might not like it, but you are literally arguing with textbook definitions here and are categorically wrong. No opinions are valid here.

you are just twisting the definitions to better suit him, look the "definition" of a coward, a person who is not brave and is too eager to avoid danger, difficulty, or pain

that is literally Baine

He avoid danger and difficulty by all means like denying his people justifying revenge of his civilians or refusing to attack the alliance who is constantly attacking then and invading their lands

He also avoid danger and the pain of being a Man and defying Sylvanas ruler-ship, afraid to die when his Father had the balls to challenge Garrosh.

[Ielenia]

yes, and Baine is both, a pacifist and a spineless coward

Risking your life for what you believe, going against the orders of someone who has little to no use for 'honor' and is known to be quite... "final" in their judgment, and doesn't tolerate dissent, doesn't exactly fit the description of "spineless coward".

In fact, it sounds more like the description of a "brave person". A "spineless coward" would just be a 'yes-man', smiling and nodding to the Warchief and doing their bidding with no questions asked, even when it goes against what they believe in. That description doesn't sound like Baine.

[Dalheim]

You're right, Velen should have just stood and died on argus with no hope of victory, preventing any possibility of anyone being able to stop the legion. What a silly billy.

They caused the destruction of unknown amounts of worlds and people.

So yes, them getting slaughtered would've saved thousands, if not millions, of life.

. A "spineless coward" would just be a 'yes-man', smiling and nodding to the Warchief and doing their bidding with no questions asked, even when it goes against what they believe in.

Which he did until the Derek Proudmoore thing.

[Ielenia]

Of all the races the draenei and NE are the most selfish and destroy everything around them to lamely try to protect themselves.

Yeah... surely those are the two most selfish races that "destroy everything around them to lamely protect themselves".
• Not the goblins who literally sold their own as slaves as they tried to escape certain death.
• Not the orcs who sold their souls for power and conquest.
• Not the blood elves who tortured and killed a Naaru to drain their power.
• Not the forsaken who love to experiment the plague on the the living to make more forsaken.

None of those... but the night elves, who sacrificed their World Tree to protect the world. The night elves who fought in the war of the Shifting Sands. And the draenei, who never waged a single war on their lives.

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Which he did until the Derek Proudmoore thing.

A "yes-man" would've continued to serve the Warchief, even then. And Baine was already questioning Sylvanas even before then.

[Syegfryed]

Risking your life for what you believe, going against the orders of someone who has little to no use for 'honor' and is known to be quite... "final" in their judgment, and doesn't tolerate dissent, doesn't exactly fit the description of "spineless coward".

And where is he going against her orders when she genocide the elves, killed his people and dragged the horde into another dark path?

he literally went and tolerate all the evil shit she was doing until he was found out

In fact, it sounds more like the description of a "brave person". A "spineless coward" would just be a 'yes-man', smiling and nodding to the Warchief and doing their bidding with no questions asked, even when it goes against what they believe in. That description doesn't sound like Baine.

are you mocking me...? he literally did that, he said yes warchief without question every evil bidding sylvanas did, until she was harming the brother of the enemy, and he only step up against her because he was found out, if if he wasn't, he would still be nodding to her

Baine can literally be used to name a coward in wow "shit son, you just bained there" or "what a Baine you are grunt!"

[mickybrighteyes]

Sure he did, but when the person who is cornering you is someone who casually commits genocide and enjoys torture, what do you expect, as I said in a previous text, you only have to look at real life comparatives to see people are regularly complicit through fear until cornererd/ hit their breaking point. Nothing special or unusual here.

This angle rings hollow to me because Jaina has Dalaran under her belt and a resolute mentality to get at the horde...

So cool. Baine betrays horde members to get Derek to Jaina (who has actively attacked and worked to kill and/or harm the horde numerous times already) because he THINKS Sylvanas is up to no good. but instead of trying to actually do something like get more solid proof he busts in and kills some hordies so Jaina can reunite with her dead brother.

I'm sorry, but this just is bullshit praising him as a hero because he acted against Sylvanas.... He acted against the horde and condemned people of the horde to death with his actions. He rallies the player character ONLY. He didn't even TRY to convince the ship's crew, he just attacked them.

So yeah, lets fist pump for how he acted against a tyrant who was totally acting to kill everyone anyways by jumping on board with another ruler who's killed their own people and attempted to sack multiple horde cities on a whim (note: Jaina has a bad track record now of going off to try soloing horde cities out of the blue)

[Dunkelzahn]

Because the tauren don't stand for anything the Alliance does.

It always amused me how people always think of them as being peaceful and nature-loving when they're anything but. I mean, since vanilla, the pinnacle of the starting quest chains leads to you going out and flat-out MURDERING an ancient, peaceful kodo just because (<insert current leader's name here>) wanted his horn as a trophy. That's it, just the horn. The rest of the kodo gets to sit there in the sun and rot away, because (<insert name>) just wanted a fancy horn for his wall.

Nevermind that they love blackpowder weapons, attempted to commit genocide, and stole their land from the very people they attempted to commit genocide on.

They're one of the most sociopathic races in the game.

So yeah, on second thought, they would make a perfect Alliance race.

[mickybrighteyes]

You're right, Velen should have just stood and died on argus with no hope of victory, preventing any possibility of anyone being able to stop the legion. What a silly billy.

depends on how you view things. Draenor would have been vastly better off had the Legion never been lead to it.

PoV of draenor? Legion aren't a threat cause the legion apparently don't exist to simply ravage worlds enslaving whole populations and only stoop to it if a race is "worthy" somehow. Orcs only recruited because Kiljaeden needed tools to wipe out the draenei.

Also apparently they focus on worlds that might have actual world souls (something draenor didn't have apparently)...

No legion invasion on draenor means no orc invasion of azeroth means no cipher of damnation to render into the shattered realm of outland.... Draenor makes out pretty good if the draenei never make it there.

azeroth on the other hand might very well be fucked if orcs didnt' make it to set up their own shit but at the same time that would also mean the humans might have stayed more unified and better handled Possessed Medivh's traps.

[Ielenia]

are you mocking me...? he literally did that, he said yes warchief without question every evil bidding sylvanas did, until she was harming the brother of the enemy, and he only step up against her because he was found out, if if he wasn't, he would still be nodding to her

Baine can literally be used to name a coward in wow "shit son, you just bained there" or "what a Baine you are grunt!"

He was being being loyal to the Horde, but even then he was still questioning the Warchief's orders and actions. He hoped things would improve, but they didn't.

[Gonder]

At this point, I feel like the tauren are sticking with the Horde for a few keys reasons: out of kinship with the other races (namely orcs and trolls); because their chances of survival are arguably higher while they're part of a larger group; because they haven't forgotten how the Horde saved them from the centaurs; and because their homeland is located smack bang in the middle of Kalimdor, which is mostly Horde territory, so if they withdrew from the Horde and pissed them off in the process, they wouldn't be in a good position to deal with it, geographically. I think there are various reasons that spark their hatred towards the Alliance races, though most of them seem either small or happened a while ago now. At this point, I feel it would be sensible to call their opinion of the Horde quite fragile.

As for the draenei, their underlying hatred definitely rests with the orcs due to the genocide, but I think their modern outlook is that the Horde itself as an evil force that is hurting Azeroth and therefore needs to be stopped before it causes irreparable damage or worse. Not to mention that they seem to crave peace quite heavily and the Horde have a habit of being war-mongering. Main reasons I think they stick with the Alliance today is out of shared goals and opinions; gratitude for their help in defeating the Burning Legion; and survival, as they'll be able to fall back on their allies in times of strife. The reality is, the draenei lost the vast majority of their numbers from the genocide, thus is the reason you don't see them scattered all over the battlefield like some of the other races - they simply don't have the numbers to support those kinds of tactics. Their soldiers are used more sparingly and wisely, which works for the most part because most of them would be considered elite compared to your average, say, human or dwarf combatant, thanks to their long life-spans and what-have-you.

[Syegfryed]

He was being being loyal to the Horde, but even then he was still questioning the Warchief's orders and actions. He hoped things would improve, but they didn't.

Yes..like a coward he is, maybe was waiting someone to save his ass again? Rexxar since vol'jin was dead and would not do it again, since in bfa he gave two shits about the horde anyway.

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azeroth on the other hand might very well be fucked if orcs didnt' make it to set up their own shit but at the same time that would also mean the humans might have stayed more unified and better handled Possessed Medivh's traps.

it is stated that the humans would just destroy themselves with war and plots without the horde to unite then, it was already pretty shit before then and stormwind fall because of it, and even then, i pretty sure Guilenas and other kingdom were just waiting to annex stormwind lands to then

[PaladinBash]

I dunno man, the Tauren are kinda chill and just go along with the Horde at this point. The Draenei got what they wanted and haven't had any story updates yet so they're sitting there.