Raider.io is almost perfect

[Kanegasi]

They just need to include a statistic that lists how many times someone has ragequit a dungeon (being the first to leave before it’s over) and it would be perfect.

The RIO discord has to field this suggestion multiple times a week and the answer will always be the same: it is not possible. There is no data available to track quitters and there will never be a voting option. The amount of work necessary for millions of players to vote on themselves without any abuse is exponentially beyond the four? people that run RIO for free.

[arkanon]

They should just add a comment section under everyone's profile.

In the history of terrible ideas open to extreme abuse, this is the ultra mega turbo Grand Master of bad ideas.

[MoanaLisa]

"If you don't carry my ass through this i'll leave a bad review on your profile".

Can you guys only think 2 centimetres ahead?

Much like this thread I doubt if that adding a comment section in the profile was a serious idea. There's a lot of people just wanting to stir up shit. Raider.io has the same faults as everything that preceded it in that it encourages higher-than-necessary requirements to do stuff and as such is anti-social. It's just another toxic piece of BS which is why I avoid playing with strangers at nearly any cost.

[exsanguinate]

I would generally also be in favour, also for a rating system.

But assume that this would extremely damage the overall gaming experience and people always find a way to manipulate it. What if someone has a disc or a family emergency? Anything can happen.

[willtron]

RIO is a b l e s s i n g

It' just the new gearscore. All this shit is bit cunty.

[iinverse]

The system I proposed doesn't need to determine a difference. It doesn't need to be perfect in every case - if it misses the occasional ragequit because of specific tactics, that's fine. The idea is to get an overall idea of how much someone does it, not be a perfect catch-all.
For dungeons where you can either do first boss in 5 minutes or 2 minutes, only punish those who would constitute a ragequit in both.
Yes, that's a wipe. Whenever a boss resets, say with at least one death and/or 10%+ hp lost or similar if more nuance is necessary.

Situations:

1. Party wipes.
Leader said: "Ok, guys, lets call it. Thank you mage, you hepled us, but we still not ready to push it".
Mage said: "Sure, you're welcome! Anyway, thanks for the run!"
Mage leaves party.
The rest desided not to disband and run other key.


2. Party wipes.
Leader said: "Ok, guys, lets push it!"
Mage said: "You're bunch of idiots not knowing tactics and dps so low that even my elem will outdps you all!"
Mage rageqiut.
The rest desided not to disband and run other key.

Excluding chat, its all equal for any log parser.
How your system will detect where is ragequit or not?

[Jervaise]

It's simple guys, in a couple steps this could be achieved;

1) Raider.io addon turns into a desktop app and becomes mandatory to show your score in game, so everyone installs it
2) The addon illegally monitors your chat and microphone and camera. It records everything
3) They feed it all to an AI which is trained overtime to learn ragequits
4) Ta-da, score ready

[iinverse]

It's simple guys, in a couple steps this could be achieved;

1) Raider.io addon turns into a desktop app and becomes mandatory to show your score in game, so everyone installs it
2) The addon illegally monitors your chat and microphone and camera. It records everything
3) They feed it all to an AI which is trained overtime to learn ragequits
4) Ta-da, score ready

Sounds like a plan!

[Segus1992]

Situations:

1. Party wipes.
Leader said: "Ok, guys, lets call it. Thank you mage, you hepled us, but we still not ready to push it".
Mage said: "Sure, you're welcome! Anyway, thanks for the run!"
Mage leaves party.
The rest desided not to disband and run other key.


2. Party wipes.
Leader said: "Ok, guys, lets push it!"
Mage said: "You're bunch of idiots not knowing tactics and dps so low that even my elem will outdps you all!"
Mage rageqiut.
The rest desided not to disband and run other key.

Excluding chat, its all equal for any log parser.
How your system will detect where is ragequit or not?

Neither run would be scrutinized, as people shouldn't be forced to boost anyone - if you leave because people genuinely suck you shouldn't be punished. Like I said earlier, the ones it should scrutinize should be those leaving a +2/3 pace run, nobody else. It isn't going to get to every ragequit, but the second mage is likely to do it again and many of those quits would be picked up by the proposed system.

[iinverse]

Neither run would be scrutinized, as people shouldn't be forced to boost anyone - if you leave because people genuinely suck you shouldn't be punished. Like I said earlier, the ones it should scrutinize should be those leaving a +2/3 pace run, nobody else. It isn't going to get to every ragequit, but the second mage is likely to do it again and many of those quits would be picked up by the proposed system.

I wanted to point that is nearly impossible to detect ANY sort of ragequitters.

[Faesroll]

They just need to include a statistic that lists how many times someone has ragequit a dungeon (being the first to leave before it’s over) and it would be perfect.

wow congrats on being the 5 millionth person to make this thread

depleting keys is a normal phase of pushing keys, how would you differentiate between someone ragequitting and depleting it on purpose

[Sinfelle]

They just need to include a statistic that lists how many times someone has ragequit a dungeon (being the first to leave before it’s over) and it would be perfect.

What they really need to do is fix the grading scale with the affixes. WCM +20 is a hell of a lot different on fort than tyrannical, they should not give the same points.
A +15 TD is worth just as many points as a +15 FH. Each dungeon should have a different point value, and affixes should have a different grading scale based on which dungeon it is, and what other affixes it's paired with.

This would help separate those you just blasted through a super easy push week to inflate their score (and are actually shit), and those that can actually push difficult keys.

[SirBeef]

Ah yes, I remember when raider.io was causing people to demand being able to link a 10 hero chive for a 10 normal pug or 25 hero gearscore reqs for 10 normal pugs.

It's almost like it's not the tool's fault the wow community doesn't understand how content progression works...

So I've seen a lot of overlap with the rio crowd and the LFG ruined socialization crowd. I just want to make sure you blame the players for the lack of socialization and not the tool that has mad it way easier to not socialize.

[Saltysquidoon]

So I've seen a lot of overlap with the rio crowd and the LFG ruined socialization crowd. I just want to make sure you blame the players for the lack of socialization and not the tool that has mad it way easier to not socialize.

I fail to see what impact RIO or gearscore before it had on socialisation.

The steps for joining a pug have always been; Be the right role, Be the right class, get inspected (gear score/ilvl merely simplifies this) and/or link and achievement. Ultimately all RIO does is provide all that information in a single link, players (intentionally or unintentionally) misusing that link is the ultimate issue of the thread.

[VanishO2]

No reason to not have that kind of metric on it. Let's be real and remember that even finding people with "enough" score can just lead to someone who was boosted just to get into groups, so even the basic metric of raider.io would be flawed at it's face value.

It's the same way with logs that show you a number and you can be smart about analyzing it or just be dumb enough to not understand what happened on it. Sometimes the player doing "lower dps" due to mechanics or assignments is actually better than the "top dpser" ignoring everything and not assigned to any kind of mechanic.

You can add a metric to have number of disconnects/leaves from total dungeon starts, compare that to number of wipes, performance numbers, and all the data that is avaiable to decide yourself if you'll invite that player or not.

Almost everything is possible, it's just a matter of wanting to do it or not.

[Naville]

What they really need to do is fix the grading scale with the affixes. WCM +20 is a hell of a lot different on fort than tyrannical, they should not give the same points.
A +15 TD is worth just as many points as a +15 FH. Each dungeon should have a different point value, and affixes should have a different grading scale based on which dungeon it is, and what other affixes it's paired with.

This would help separate those you just blasted through a super easy push week to inflate their score (and are actually shit), and those that can actually push difficult keys.

To my mind, improving score accuracy like this is worthless. Whatever they do, it'll be ruined by boosts, guilds and "friends I know who are good at this game".

[iinverse]

This would help separate those you just blasted through a super easy push week to inflate their score (and are actually shit), and those that can actually push difficult keys.

If you want to bulid party that can push really hard keys, I believe, you put some more efforts that just to look at rio rating. Like to see actual runs on raider.io for example.

[SmooshyWolf]

One of the most prevalent reasons for keys being depleted across the board is someone leaving before the run ends.

Raider IO is contributing to this problem because it encourages selfish play, even in pug groups, if even the tiniest thing sets someone off, they just leave the group on the grounds of:

"My IO wont go up in this group."

"I don't want a key that I haven't made in time on my profile."

"I am not obligated to be here."

I would like to point out the obvious. You are obligated to stay for the dungeon if you sign up. If you don't think you can stay or feel spooked by the other people in the group - Leave before the run starts. Don't be that guy and deplete someones key.

In this regard I 100% agree there needs to be a metric or a system that tracks people that frequently leave groups that are underway and the dungeon timer has started. You have plenty of chances to leave the group (not even signing up in the first place, for example), if you have doubts.

If this continues to be allowed however, their needs to be some kind of Vote to Abandon system, or Depletion Protection. In either system, players could Vote to Abandon, and preserve the key owners key level provided the key hasn't already been depleted yet.

That can also be used in tandem with a Depletion Protection system, if someone leaves or DCs and remains DC'd for X seconds, the key owner can preserve his key no questions asked. Obviously a failsafe would be included where the group leader cant just kick someone out or disband the group to exploit this rule. The person needs to either DC or leave the group on their own.

EDIT: I would like to hammer home the stance of obligation to be present because M+ is very unique in the respect that, once the run starts, you are locked in with your team. You can't recruit a replacement if someone leaves due to the fact that each M+ only allows 5 unique people to be saved to it.

So if someone leaves, the key owner is screwed and has no recourse.

[Great Destiny Man]

One of the most prevalent reasons for keys being depleted across the board is someone leaving before the run ends.

Raider IO is contributing to this problem because it encourages selfish play, even in pug groups, if even the tiniest thing sets someone off, they just leave the group on the grounds of:

"My IO wont go up in this group."

"I don't want a key that I haven't made in time on my profile."

"I am not obligated to be here."

I would like to point out the obvious. You are obligated to stay for the dungeon if you sign up. If you don't think you can stay or feel spooked by the other people in the group - Leave before the run starts. Don't be that guy and deplete someones key.

Dunno about you but I never hear anyone give those reasons directly in chat. Any time there's actual chat preceding the leave it's just insults and shit flinging across both sides.

I mean there's plenty of reasons that have nothing to do with r.io, like only having time to do a quick 20 minute M+ but group is so shit it would take double/triple that time to complete.

In this regard I 100% agree there needs to be a metric or a system that tracks people that frequently leave groups that are underway and the dungeon timer has started. You have plenty of chances to leave the group (not even signing up in the first place, for example), if you have doubts.

If this continues to be allowed however, their needs to be some kind of Vote to Abandon system, or Depletion Protection. In either system, players could Vote to Abandon, and preserve the key owners key level provided the key hasn't already been depleted yet.

That can also be used in tandem with a Depletion Protection system, if someone leaves or DCs and remains DC'd for X seconds, the key owner can preserve his key no questions asked. Obviously a failsafe would be included where the group leader cant just kick someone out or disband the group to exploit this rule. The person needs to either DC or leave the group on their own.

So for those who don't PuG effectively there's never a penalty for failing keys because you just get someone to fake a DC and preserve the key. You may as well just scrap key reductions altogether in that case.

I would like to hammer home the stance of obligation to be present because M+ is very unique in the respect that, once the run starts, you are locked in with your team. You can't recruit a replacement if someone leaves due to the fact that each M+ only allows 5 unique people to be saved to it.

So if someone leaves, the key owner is screwed and has no recourse.

I sympathise to a point but that doesn't mean the key owner is entitled to infinite patience. Sure he's the one most inconvenienced by key being depleted but that doesn't automatically always make him the victim.

[Djuntas]

I love rio to stalk people and see what my class can do. Feral druid is not very meta, but there are druids out there doing 24-26 keys!! Also just to see what gear they used when they did it etc...But yes, rio is kinda fucked...its grindy to get score up.