Spirit Healers confirmed for Kyrians- Retcon Time?

[Saltysquidoon]

Sshh. The angry people don't like it when others look at the lore and try to figure out how it works, instead of immediately dismissing it as not working and throwing in an insult at Blizzard staff while they're at it. Look at Mehrunes for a good example. Also look at my sig.

Are you implying by reference to your sig that blizzard planned in 2004 to say spirit healers were val'kyr in 2008 while knowing all along they were kyrian only planning on revealing this in 2020?

[Syegfryed]

Sshh. The angry people don't like it when others look at the lore and try to figure out how it works, instead of immediately dismissing it as not working and throwing in an insult at Blizzard staff while they're at it. Look at Mehrunes for a good example. Also look at my sig.

i mean, when they with all words, say that spirit healers are valkyr - vrykul woman - who decided to not take part with the Helya and Odyn shenanigans, and one expansion later they say the spirit healers are another entire different race of beings in the shadowlands, retconing their entire previous lore confirmation, you have to admit there is a damn problem in the writing team.

Why confirm what the spirit healers were, if one expansion later you will say that is false and give us another confirmation?

If expansions are planned way ahead, why this happened? why say the spirit healers are one thing to say other later?? See, they didn't said both were right, that there is also spirit healers who are indeed vrykul, since Odyn created the valkyr looking at the Kyrian.

There is nothing about that, it was one thing, then it was retconed one expansion later, for no reason at all, since both groups could co-exist,, spirit healers and Kyrian, seems like they just though this way would be cooler

[Nagawithlegs]

Why confirm what the spirit healers were, if one expansion later you will say that is false and give us another confirmation?

Because they like their new explanation more and it lets them do more stuff. They wanted to do a Spirit Healer race instead of feeling limited by them being Valkyr... despite not looking like Valkyr.

Also, this does not disprove expansions being planned ahead. They could easily have planned for a Death expansion during Legion (and they did: see the Helheim stuff and Sylvanas being important at all, and then BFA being bastardized to foreshadow Shadowlands) and not have the entire details of what the areas or races would be. Some dev could have said "hey wait what if Odyn saw the spirit healers, like the ones we have" and while someone mentioned that goes against the lore they already liked the idea of spirit healers being a race.

[Darththeo]

i mean, when they with all words, say that spirit healers are valkyr - vrykul woman - who decided to not take part with the Helya and Odyn shenanigans, and one expansion later they say the spirit healers are another entire different race of beings in the shadowlands, retconing their entire previous lore confirmation, you have to admit there is a damn problem in the writing team.

Why confirm what the spirit healers were, if one expansion later you will say that is false and give us another confirmation?

If expansions are planned way ahead, why this happened? why say the spirit healers are one thing to say other later?? See, they didn't said both were right, that there is also spirit healers who are indeed vrykul, since Odyn created the valkyr looking at the Kyrian.

There is nothing about that, it was one thing, then it was retconed one expansion later, for no reason at all, since both groups could co-exist,, spirit healers and Kyrian, seems like they just though this way would be cooler

Ignoring that the Kyrian is what spirits of the world turn into. Spirit Healers can still have been Vrykul in their life.

[shadowmatrix]

I'd much rather they retcon it so everything actually makes sense, rather then they ruining past lore... like they did with the Lich King armor.

What lore about the armor is being ruined?

[Powerogue]

Where was them being val'kyr established anyway?

Besides, what really matters is clarifying the murloc spirit healers on island expeditions. We want answers, damn it! Glorblegurgle!

[cparle87]

Are you implying by reference to your sig that blizzard planned in 2004 to say spirit healers were val'kyr in 2008 while knowing all along they were kyrian only planning on revealing this in 2020?

Considering there are voice lines from a dungeon boss in BC that directly references the Void Lords, I'd say they have vague ideas many years ahead that they can later condense into a solid creation. Guy in #24 beat me to it. Go read him.

- - - Updated - - -

i mean, when they with all words, say that spirit healers are valkyr - vrykul woman - who decided to not take part with the Helya and Odyn shenanigans, and one expansion later they say the spirit healers are another entire different race of beings in the shadowlands, retconing their entire previous lore confirmation, you have to admit there is a damn problem in the writing team.

Why confirm what the spirit healers were, if one expansion later you will say that is false and give us another confirmation?

If expansions are planned way ahead, why this happened? why say the spirit healers are one thing to say other later?? See, they didn't said both were right, that there is also spirit healers who are indeed vrykul, since Odyn created the valkyr looking at the Kyrian.

There is nothing about that, it was one thing, then it was retconed one expansion later, for no reason at all, since both groups could co-exist,, spirit healers and Kyrian, seems like they just though this way would be cooler

Was reading through your post, but the guy in post #24 beat me to it. We've seen tauren become kyrians. So spirit healers are indeed former Odyn val'kyr who sided with neither and went to help adventurers.

- - - Updated - - -

https://sagamer.co.za/2020/05/28/a-d...reater-purpose



Weren't the spirit healers on Azeroth originally said to be Valkyr? I know how much this forum loves retcons so I wanted your thoughts on this.

Kyrians used to be many different beings in life. We've seen clips of tauren becoming kyrian. The val'kyr who sided with neither returned to the Shadowlands, completed their trials to become kyrians, and were assigned back to the world of the living.

[Saltysquidoon]

Considering there are voice lines from a dungeon boss in BC that directly references the Void Lords, I'd say they have vague ideas many years ahead that they can later condense into a solid creation. Guy in #24 beat me to it. Go read him.

Yes, blizzard planned 16 years ago that spirit healers are vykrul (that didn't exist in vanilla) that died, who turned into val'kyr (that didn't exist in vanilla) that died, who turned into kyrian (that didn't exist in vanilla) that turned into spirit healers.
If you believe any of that was in any way planned I've got a bridge to sell you.

[Feanoro]

Yes, blizzard planned 16 years ago that spirit healers are vykrul (that didn't exist in vanilla) that died, who turned into val'kyr (that didn't exist in vanilla) that died, who turned into kyrian (that didn't exist in vanilla) that turned into spirit healers.
If you believe any of that was in any way planned I've got a bridge to sell you.

It's truly astonishing that the myth of far reaching plans continues after Metzen (who actually cared) had his famous lorelol moment with the introduction of the Draenei.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It's truly astonishing that the myth of far reaching plans continues after Metzen (who actually cared) had his famous lorelol moment with the introduction of the Draenei.

....They care and Metzen is that dude who would totally act like a kid on camera(And I mean this in a nice way he's just totally into nerdy stuff). That said Blizzard plans their lore ahead of time but not 10 years ahead. That'd be nice but...they don't.

[Maljinwo]

At this point just consider Spirit Healers a game mechanic and move on

[Mehrunes]

Sshh. The angry people don't like it when others look at the lore and try to figure out how it works, instead of immediately dismissing it as not working and throwing in an insult at Blizzard staff while they're at it. Look at Mehrunes for a good example. Also look at my sig.

Oh please get off your high horse because as always it doesn't exist. If you have to bend over backwards for a statement by Blizzard to make sense (barely, because it requires an extremely "generous" usage of the world "ultimately" and deliberate ignorance of the fact that this supposedly intended message is much more easily conveyed by stating that Val'kyr are inspired by the Kyrians) you're not "trying to figure out how the story works", you're trying to figure out how to excuse Blizzard kami-sama.

But I do approve of your request for people to look at your signature. Because it's a quote of a completely defensive post that complained about people judging BfA and its own events instead of "Blizzard's intent". You know, the intent that @Powerogue has no way of actually knowing (because divining Blizzard's intent from fish guts isn't exactly rock-solid science) and is just a colossal fallacy they constructed to defend Blizzard kami-sama. Bonus points for it also being a reply to your own post that consists of a straw-man and your usual self-aggrandizing about how (unlike you) BfA's vile critics are not even making an effort to understand the story (which is precisely why you repeatedly make basic errors about whatever topic you're commenting on), that you also expressed in this here post.

In regards to which, @Super Dickmann made an apt response to that back then and it seems it remains apt:

Far be it from me to interrupt your group therapy but I do take offense to not caring about the lore, if I didn't, I wouldn't despise BFA so much, whereas on the other hand, people who know as little as possible about the Forsaken or the Horde are the ones who most enjoy consuming it.

Are you implying by reference to your sig that blizzard planned in 2004 to say spirit healers were val'kyr in 2008 while knowing all along they were kyrian only planning on revealing this in 2020?

Never underestimate the power of divining Blizzard's "intent" from inhaling incense of unknown origin.

Where was them being val'kyr established anyway?

Chronicle v1. Something someone as deeply knowledgeable about the lore as you should be aware by now, no?

[Thage]

Shadowlands was already stated to span all the worlds so this isn't why this retcon was needed (because retcons are never needed). It's nothing more than Blizzard's "writers" once more being sorry excuses of employees that are not even hypothetically capable of properly doing their jobs.

Remember when homie from Scrolls of Lore was hired by Blizz, specifically to help keep things straight and internally-consistent at Creative Development? I wonder what became of him and how bad a drinking problem he has, if he still works there...

[Mehrunes]

Ignoring that the Kyrian is what spirits of the world turn into. Spirit Healers can still have been Vrykul in their life.

But the topic isn't what they were in their life. The topic is what they have been in their unlife because Odyn's Val'kyr were undead. And immortal ones at that (vide Helya still being around after millennia). So unless they died in Shadowlands as Val'kyr and after their death went to Shadowlands (from Shadowlands) how would they have become Kyrians? Never mind that the Chronicle said "these Val'kyr would at times guide the dead back to the land of the living", not "former Val'kyr".

Considering there are voice lines from a dungeon boss in BC that directly references the Void Lords, I'd say they have vague ideas many years ahead that they can later condense into a solid creation. Guy in #24 beat me to it. Go read him.

Yes, Habringer Skyriss' line about how he serves powers untouched by time and that even the Legion couldn't bend the knee of is totes a "direct reference" to the Void Lords. If you throw the meaning of the word "direct" into an ongoing dumpster fire.

Was reading through your post, but the guy in post #24 beat me to it. We've seen tauren become kyrians. So spirit healers are indeed former Odyn val'kyr who sided with neither and went to help adventurers.

Kyrians used to be many different beings in life. We've seen clips of tauren becoming kyrian. The val'kyr who sided with neither returned to the Shadowlands, completed their trials to become kyrians, and were assigned back to the world of the living.

Like I already pointed out to your post #24, the Chronicle flat out refers to them as Val'kyr, not former Val'kyr. So they most certainly are not "indeed former Val'kyr". Unless you have some vastly alternative indeeds. Never mind that before you made this post there was another Blizzard interview on the matter (that was posted on MMO-C's front page no less) that clarified that Val'kyr were merely based off of Kyrians, making this not only a clear case of how you're not keeping yourself informed on the topics you're trying to pose as an authority on but also how you're doing nothing else than trying to find a way to excuse Blizzard no matter what.

[shoc]

I don't know why people take WoW lore so seriously in the first place. It's always existed to serve the gameplay and to sell expansions, and keep the game marching towards the end of time. They'll do whatever they want, yet you guys treat it like a biblical canon.

[Mehrunes]

At this point just consider Spirit Healers a game mechanic and move on

There's also that. It doesn't usually end well. Remember when they tried to explain hearthstones in Stormrage (at least I think it was Stormrage) and it made no sense because hearthstones were treated in the novel as some ultra rare artifacts but in the game a new recruit is handed one right off the bat and any innkeeper in the world has one to spare?

Remember when homie from Scrolls of Lore was hired by Blizz, specifically to help keep things straight and internally-consistent at Creative Development? I wonder what became of him and how bad a drinking problem he has, if he still works there...

Can't say I've used Scrolls of Lore a lot (by the time I learned about it it already developed into what I've found to be a rather insular community) so it's the first time I'm hearing about this. But if Blizzard has truly ever hired someone to keep their lore straight that person would have killed themself due to utter hopelessness within an hour.

[Ielenia]

Kyrians are definitely "what if Spirit Healers was its own race" but their lore contradicts the old lore for them.

What if the Val'kyr are Kyrians, in the living world?

[Lord Pebbleton]

Mmmm.
MMMMMM.

I am not convinced. While this may be a minor retcon, I am kinda worried about possible future ones.

I mean, WoD started with minor retcons, then went full lore annihilation with time travel discrepancies and infinite Legion nonsense. And I do believe that implementing time travel and explaining death are some of the most difficult things to do in a fantasy setting.

[Syegfryed]

Was reading through your post, but the guy in post #24 beat me to it. We've seen tauren become kyrians. So spirit healers are indeed former Odyn val'kyr who sided with neither and went to help adventurers..

Val'kyr became kyrian, who became spirit healers... that don't make any sense at all

[Saltysquidoon]

I don't know why people take WoW lore so seriously in the first place. It's always existed to serve the gameplay and to sell expansions, and keep the game marching towards the end of time. They'll do whatever they want, yet you guys treat it like a biblical canon.

Maybe people believe it's possible to create an expansive fantasy universe without directly (and pointlessly in this case) contradicting yourself every five minutes.

Frankly, your argument just boils down the the 'turn your brain off bro' line which in my opinion is without merit. People don't need to accept lower quality writing because it's for entertainment and if they paid for it they're well within their rights to criticise it.