Got booted. Am I the bad guy?

[Shango]

Alright, thanks guys, overall feedback seems to be that i was in the right, which makes me feel a lot less selfish.

[MrLachyG]

this is why you don't loot gear until you get to the mailbox.

that worked well for Wizards....... not.

edit: OP you should've just said that you can't trade it. the "you can trade to players who were also eligible" simply wasn't there

[Daymanmb]

Alright, thanks guys, overall feedback seems to be that i was in the right, which makes me feel a lot less selfish.

I wouldnt say in the right. Just not necessarily in the wrong.

[Shango]

I wouldnt say in the right. Just not necessarily in the wrong.

That's why i said "overall", in my raid earlier it was like 9 guys saying im a selfish dick, 3 not participating and 1 guy siding with me, it appears to be the opposite here.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

If the loot had value to you, in either a cosmetic or character progression sense, you were in the right. Would be a bit of different story if the loot had absolutely no value to you, but as I understand it provided a valuable currency (residium).

They were major dicks for kicking you after they failed to take "no" for an answer when you had good reason to not trade the piece.

[Defend]

Were you looting it just to scrap it? I kinda get why they were a bit pissed cause you do get a big chunk of residiuum at reset, way more than 200 and I guess the hunter didn’t have better Azerite cause the Vexiona helm is meh

[WaltherLeopold]

I wouldnt say in the right. Just not necessarily in the wrong.

Why wouldn't you say he's in the right though, it's called personal loot for a reason.

[Saltysquidoon]

Right, just like they dont owe him and are fine to kick him.

I mean sure it's a pug and in WoW who gets kicked is always ultimately in the hands of the RL.

If you want to argue an RL would be morally in the right for kicking someone because their buddy is booty blasted for no justifiable reason that's where we would have to stop agreeing.

[Steelcryo]

It's interesting this caused problems at all frankly. In my guild (which is a prog guild) ups went to raider mains first 100% of the time every time even on 'fun runs' with socials. Weird the RL had a stupid rule like 'just roll for it' when raiders still needed gear from the content in the first place.

Nah social runs were just meant to be for fun to get non raiders some gear. A lot of raiders brought alts, but a few brought mains just to speed things up, but everyone agreed all loot was fair game for everyone. Half the reason most the casual players came was because they wanted that trinket and didn't want to PUG for it.

[This Sesshomaru]

This is one of those Schrödinger situations where you were both right and wrong, and ultimately whether people side with you or the other guy is simply up to that person's perspective.

Why were you right?
It is your loot, to do with as you please and you didn't owe those guys anything nor were you tied to any loot rules for that run.

Why were you wrong?
Upgrades are sometimes very hard to come by and exactly like that guy in your grp said:

i was sure to receive enough residium to just be guaranteed to buy a piece of gear that only had a chance to be an upgrade while our groups hunter was guaranteed an upgrade

Why was he right?
He was asking for an item that was useful to him but not to you (equip-wise).

Why was he wrong?
As much as it pains him, if you refuse you have a right to do so, and at least you had a valid reason, it's much worse when people refuse to trade loot just because they want to dc it.


IMO you were a little selfish, BUT it doesn't mean that you were WRONG.

[Saltysquidoon]

Nah social runs were just meant to be for fun to get non raiders some gear. A lot of raiders brought alts, but a few brought mains just to speed things up, but everyone agreed all loot was fair game for everyone. Half the reason most the casual players came was because they wanted that trinket and didn't want to PUG for it.

Either way you slice it the RL was either a tool or a dick then. If there were enough raiding mains getting realistic upgrades to matter they should have had a rule about raider pref and thus is an idiot (or the guild should have had it as a general rule). If there wasn't a realistic expectation of raiding mains getting ups and he did it anyway as you pointed out they're a dick.

[Tronski]

Salute o7

So to start things off im still fairly convinced that I am in fact not the bad guy, but considering 12 people just told me i am a dick and only 1 guy was on my side I feel like sharing my story, or ranting, you name it.

After missing my guilds hc raid this week and sitting at ~4600 titan residium i decided to join a hc nyalotha raid to try grab any azerite piece for its scrap value. (my char is currently sitting at ilvl 475 so i dont need anything else in there) Vexiona dropped her headpiece and immideatly afterwards i got whispered by a hunter if i was so kind to trade it to him, considering i allready have Carapace Loot and would most likely not need it.

I declined and got called out in raid chat for being a selfish dick. At that point i was like i was like "eh, is that guy serious?" but people were kinda quick to side with him. Arguments were being made for me to just wait for next reset because i was sure to receive enough residium to just be guaranteed to buy a piece of gear that only had a chance to be an upgrade while our groups hunter was guaranteed an upgrade (if i traded him).

I pretty much did not react in chat, only thing i typed was that the sole reason i joined the raid in the first place was for a few shots at 200 residium so i could try get an upgrade at the azerite vendor. (i failed at that btw, not that it would matter)

Either way, raid leader (being premade with the hunter) told me to either give the headpiece to his hunter friend or be kicked. Told him that i still dont see a reason to to do so and got shafted. After being kicked one pala heal whispered me saying he would not even have a problem if i decided to keep the item for transmog purposes.

What are your thoughts? The group i joined were mostly randoms (4 guys from one guild) and still seemed to agree that i was being selfish.

The snowflake guild spearheaded by the hunter and the RL are 100% the dicks in this scenario, regardless of how you declined and what they might have offered. Your loot is yours. Joke's probably on them anyway.

Trading loot should really only be possible between guldies of a certain time. This would solve so many problems.

[shearx]

I've had this exact thing happen to me. I went into a H Carapace group with the sole intent of trying to get a 2nd caster sword for myself (to cleanse of its corruption to widen my gearing choices). I got the sword, didn't trade it, and was booted. Fuck people who do this shit.

[Darththeo]

No, he didn't. How he declined is literally of no importance. Is there a certain way you should decline someone? I don't even answer people if I get something I'm going to keep. If it upsets you, say goodbye to my overwhelmingly-above-everyone-else boss DPS and kick me. Good luck with the rest of your run, I'm certainly not going to have an issue finding another.

To OP - Sounds like a win-win to me. You got your residuum you needed, and you didn't have suffer through any more content with this group of folks. Pugs that feel entitled to drops because "YoU hAVe GeAr" is hands down the most entitled thing I've ever seen in this game. If I want to vendor it for the 50g I'm within my right to. You don't exist in this game to help gear up undergeared players. You already served your purpose by blasting their content for them.

Yes, it actually does matter. If he was a dick about it, he was a dick. It matters.

There is no certain ways to decline someone, but there are ways to decline that definitely make you the "bad guy." He is asking that question, it matters in the determination.

There is a difference between:
"Get good kid." and "I am sorry, but no."

[Tronski]

This is one of those Schrödinger situations where you were both right and wrong, and ultimately whether people side with you or the other guy is simply up to that person's perspective.

Why were you right?
It is your loot, to do with as you please and you didn't owe those guys anything nor were you tied to any loot rules for that run.

Why were you wrong?
Upgrades are sometimes very hard to come by and exactly like that guy in your grp said:


Why was he right?
He was asking for an item that was useful to him but not to you (equip-wise).

Why was he wrong?
As much as it pains him, if you refuse you have a right to do so, and at least you had a valid reason, it's much worse when people refuse to trade loot just because they want to dc it.


IMO you were a little selfish, BUT it doesn't mean that you were WRONG.

No. Just no.

OP was not in the wrong, and the hunter was not in the right no matter how much more he might have gotten out of this rare item. It was still an upgrade to OP.

[Shango]

The exact exchange was the following (can still deliver a screenshot if needed)

Hunter: need head mate ?
Me: i do, sry
Hunter: you have 475
Hunter: how the fuck you need a 460 head ?
Me: i need it to buy an azerite piece which is exactly the reason i joined this raid i nthe first place
Hunter: so you needed 200 fucking residuum
Hunter: lol
Hunter: ok

Edit: Apparently i cant add a screenshot/link or at least i dont know how to

[Gasparde]

Debates like this are why personal loot exists. It's your loot, you earned it, you get to choose what to do with it. Would it have been nice to give it to the hunter? Sure. But ultimately it's your gear. You don't have any responsibility to give it to him.
I also don't entirely blame the guy for kicking you though. He was doing the raid to try to gear his friend, and you stood in the way of that when you could have helped. I can see why he'd want people who are more receptive to his preferred way of doing things.
Nobody's entirely in the wrong here.

Debates like this prove that perso loot didn't change shit. Entitled loot drama bitches are still gonna be entitled loot drama bitches and the abuse coming from them is still happening. But hey, at least that guy got to keep his item, that is objectively just better than other people feeling bad for not being able to trade items to their friends and instead having to vendor them.

[qwerty123456]

Alright, thanks guys, overall feedback seems to be that i was in the right, which makes me feel a lot less selfish.

You shouldn't feel less selfish as you were selfish. But you had every right to be as it was personal loot. They were dicks for booting you.

[Khosumi]

Yes, it actually does matter. If he was a dick about it, he was a dick. It matters.

There is no certain ways to decline someone, but there are ways to decline that definitely make you the "bad guy." He is asking that question, it matters in the determination.

There is a difference between:
"Get good kid." and "I am sorry, but no."

It ultimately still doesn't matter, him being a dick doesn't forfeit his loot to the beggar.

[Khosumi]

To me it’s a completely reasonable response. It’s hard to argue that you’re going to keep your loot and fuck everyone else while simultaneously arguing that the raid leader is obligated to keep you, a stranger, in his raid.

By taking that piece you’re saying that you care very little about him - why should he care about the harm he causes you by kicking?

Are you actually suggesting that by not giving up a piece of LFR loot that will be replaced within the same week, he is causing the other player any harm? Is that what's coming down to, crying over LFR loot?

It's his loot, not the RL, not the hunter's. His. Kicking him over that is petty and jealousy.