So... thats why burst dps is bad for the game 29 fire mages HC

[kaminaris]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=316277/...-29-fire-mages

As long as we will have classes with high burst dps litreally incomparable to others - like nobody can't even hold a candle, we will never have decent balance.

And before you say it's irrelevant, it is relevant for everyone as high burst specs will be always more desirable than others.
Consistent damage is always less reliable as high burst shortens fights, makes some phases/adds last shorter amount of time and generally makes things easier.

Capping AOE won't prevent that... as long as blizzard continues to add ridiculous trinkets and other on use effects that can be stacked.

[Kumorii]

Loving fire, but yeah... the reliance on combustion makes the time out of combustion feel lack luster. Narrowing the difference could make it feel better, dunno tbh.

[Jibbler]

Loving fire, but yeah... the reliance on combustion makes the time out of combustion feel lack luster. Narrowing the difference could make it feel better, dunno tbh.

this is difficult to do, they tried to do this with shadow priest with them doing a lot of damage in void form back in legion but very little outside it. they've only made void form feel weak and almost pointless to use.

[kaminaris]

Loving fire, but yeah... the reliance on combustion makes the time out of combustion feel lack luster. Narrowing the difference could make it feel better, dunno tbh.

Same thing is happenin with demo lock. Your tyrant is doing damage, you don't do shit outside of tyrant windows:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=5
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=20

38% of your entire damage is your cooldown pet.

https://i.imgur.com/nnEbl8h.png

[s_bushido]

Imagine thinking this has implications for the game beyond "yeah, mages can do that when you have an entire raid full of them."

[deenman]

Imagine thinking this has implications for the game beyond "yeah, mages can do that when you have an entire raid full of them."

well his point was the burst being an issue,the wod one is exactly that,arcane had great burst,and the ragnaros mages is irelevant,as mages were the only real ranged dps lol

[kaminaris]

well his point was the burst being an issue,the wod one is exactly that,arcane had great burst,and the ragnaros mages is irelevant,as mages were the only real ranged dps lol

Yep, designing some specs just around burst dps is bullshit.

I mean i don't have anything against burst dps in general... but burst shouldn't quadruple or quintuple your normal dps out of cooldown windows

Now lets breakdown dps by windows:

Raden fire mage total DPS 165K
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=12

Total DPS inside cooldown window 550K
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...08&end=6361003

DPS outside of cooldown window 70K
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...13&end=6439440

Absolutely retarded.

[deenman]

Yep, designing some specs just around burst dps is bullshit.

I mean i don't have anything against burst dps in general... but burst shouldn't quadruple or quintuple your normal dps out of cooldown windows

Now lets breakdown dps by windows:

Raden fire mage total DPS 165K
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=12

Total DPS inside cooldown window 550K
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...08&end=6361003

DPS outside of cooldown window 70K
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...13&end=6439440

Absolutely retarded.

yikes,meanwile using icelance a staple of the frost mage...is a dps loss

[Kumorii]

this is difficult to do, they tried to do this with shadow priest with them doing a lot of damage in void form back in legion but very little outside it. they've only made void form feel weak and almost pointless to use.

Absolutely, I have no idea myself how to achieve it, just pointing out a slight flaw when it comes to fire mages to me.

as Kaminaris have linked. DPS difference between combust and no combust is a joke. Still enjoying fire mages as hell due to gameplay tho.

[Sámsa]

The problem is ignite.
Even outside of combustion Fire Mages are doing am ridiculous amount of damage now thanks to mastery stacking.

Even before that...fire mages solo passib cleaving the adds on mythic N’Zoth

[Doffen]

Thats why BfA class design is the worst it's ever been. And then I don't mean normal burst, but that so much damage is from procs and passives which then explodes into big burst. No expansion has ever been like this, even though Arcane in HfC was just stupid like many specs in BfA, and the worst part is that so much of it isn't from class spesifics. Take fire mage, Mastery corruption and lucid dream just buffs them so much, and then you have other essences and corruption that makes burst, not just so high, but unreliable for many specs.

But, you OP have been praising this for whole of BfA. Saying Legion was way worse when it wasn't even close to be this bad. The damage we did then was more the player than any buff, proc or externals like in BfA. Welcome to reality.

Luckily Shadowlands seems to go away from the bs we had in BfA and make skill matter again. Procs and passives should never do more than 5-15% damage. It's just stupid to see a player do 30% less than someone else with same spec and skill, just by chance like now.

[crazyman2]

Destro is the same garbage. 150k-200dps during infernal, 30k-40k dps outside of infernal. If you get targeted for certain mechanics during the burst window, say goodbye to your parse.

[kaminaris]

Thats why BfA class design is the worst it's ever been. And then I don't mean burst, but that so much damage is from procs and passives which then explodes into big burst. No expansion has ever been like this, even though Arcane in HfC was just stupid like many specs in BfA, and the worst part is that so much of it isn't from class spesifics. Take fire mage, Mastery corruption and lucid dream just buffs them so much, and then you have other essences and corruption that makes burst, not just so high, but unreliable for many specs.

But, you OP have been praising this for whole of BfA. Saying Legion was way worse when it wasn't even close to be this bad. The damage we did then was more the player than any buff, proc or externals like in BfA. Welcome to reality.

Luckily Shadowlands seems to go away from the bs we had in BfA and make skill matter again. Procs and passives should never do more than 5-15% damage. It's just stupid to see a player do 30% less than someone else with same spec and skill, just by chance like now.

Ah bullshit, we had this problem past 5 expansions now. Blizzard just never learned.
WoD had arcane mages and that retarded talent + trinket, retarded legendary ring, retarded agility trinkets
MoP had retarded trinkets, retarded snapshotting
Legion had retarded trinkets, retarded spriest talent, retarded overpowered artifacts.

[deenman]

Thats why BfA class design is the worst it's ever been. And then I don't mean normal burst, but that so much damage is from procs and passives which then explodes into big burst. No expansion has ever been like this, even though Arcane in HfC was just stupid like many specs in BfA, and the worst part is that so much of it isn't from class spesifics. Take fire mage, Mastery corruption and lucid dream just buffs them so much, and then you have other essences and corruption that makes burst, not just so high, but unreliable for many specs.

But, you OP have been praising this for whole of BfA. Saying Legion was way worse when it wasn't even close to be this bad. The damage we did then was more the player than any buff, proc or externals like in BfA. Welcome to reality.

Luckily Shadowlands seems to go away from the bs we had in BfA and make skill matter again. Procs and passives should never do more than 5-15% damage. It's just stupid to see a player do 30% less than someone else with same spec and skill, just by chance like now.

wod was almost as bad with the legend ring,only instead of adding random procs and abilities,the ring just gave you a huge % buff and than boom for even more dmg,its still an item causing the dmg,but atleast it was your actual abilities doing that dmg

still i feel like that ring completly ruined hfc,by the time we got to archimonde myth we were skiping more than half the mecanics

[reanimatez]

Not sure why this is even a thing, think it's terrible design. One of the many reasons why I'm not currently raiding, let alone playing lol.

[Elias01]

What do you expect look at all that powercreep what we had just in this expansion. No wonder game have this kind of stuff happening. There is no way Blizzard will ever balance game when their desing allow for such powercreep. Maybe its time to reduce acessability cut down on powercreeep?

Just look at tanks. How is it possible that tanks can outheal boss dmg ? This should never happen. Boss should kill that tank in 10 sec then wipe rest of raid just like it was back in vannila.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Ignoring the HC thing, I personally think fire mage is only popular because of how ludicrously mobile it is compared to both arcane and frost, especially in the execute phase where Blizzard usually throws in some extra movement to shit even more on casters. As far as actual feel of the class goes, I think fire feels pathetically weak. Your fire skills hit like wet noodles and the only thing makes a difference is the huge burst window, which mostly just feeds a dot. As far as fire caster fantasy goes I'm more into actually blasting your oponents to bits with direct damage. I mean even meteor is pathetically weak.. it's a fucking meteor spell, it's supposed to deal mindnumbingly large damage numbers - or at least cover a wide area - yet at best it's 50% of a glacial spike..

Personally the caster fantasy in WoW is all kinds of wrong, mages aren't the only example of that. Warlocks suffer alot from weird choices as well (especially destro), not to mention the hybrid classes. But I guess that is to be expected. The game is build with gogogo-timers in mind and actual RPG capabilities of carefully placed big hitting attacks is simply impossible if your core gameplay loop is build around whittling down enemies with pin pricks while playing twister. Edit: The insistance on the out of control power creep and shifting to random procc damage is just the icing on the cake here. Corruption was broken from day one and before that we had pearl gear, same story there. I doubt this trend will stop anytime soon.

[Fkiolaris]

Ah bullshit, we had this problem past 5 expansions now. Blizzard just never learned.
WoD had arcane mages and that retarded talent + trinket, retarded legendary ring, retarded agility trinkets
MoP had retarded trinkets, retarded snapshotting
Legion had retarded trinkets, retarded spriest talent, retarded overpowered artifacts.

And Shadowlands will be having retarded Covenant abilities that you are so passionately defending in their implementation. Oh I know, "Blizzard will balance it" or "it doesn't matter unless you are the top 0.1% minmaxer"

[kaminaris]

And Shadowlands will be having retarded Covenant abilities that you are so passionately defending in their implementation. Oh I know, "Blizzard will balance it" or "it doesn't matter unless you are the top 0.1% minmaxer"

One additional ability doesn't break it. You don't understand the core issue here.
Issue here is stacking multiple damage boosts at once making you incredible dps spikes. Usually this is because there is one spell or class mechanic that allows it so
REAL problem here is implementation of ignite.

As for demo lock the sole issue is just a talent - demonic consumption.

[Onikaroshi]

I like burst based classes, they're fun.

And this shit happens all the time, Arcane in WoD anyone?