LFR should TEACH players to become better raiders.

[Lei]

In MoP, my guildemates (we did heroic/mythic) and me too liked to run lfr because they could practice (before flex raid), their (our) OP gear made it fun to just roflstomp stuff. (Remember tanks dps on Iron Juggernaut? That was crazy) I think mop's LFR difficulty was fine. It's like nowadays normal I suppose? I used it to gear alts. Drop rate was ok effort/yield wise, legendary cloak stuff dropped there. It was fine.
In WoD, I kinda remember not getting too much loot anymore (I guess "tourist mode" means "please don't expect gear here for this amount of effort" as well ) and in Legion even less (LFR for transmog purposes), and it was pointless even, when world quests gave equal or better. That is when I stopped doing or caring for LFR altogether.
I don't even know what is in LFR nowadays. I should check.
In any case, LFR raiders don't neccessarily want to get better, and it's fine for LFR. People who join just to be toxic... are just toxic, no matter the setting probably.

[Gorsameth]

All those are cinematics what you can watch on youtube. There is no gameplay involved which means there is no diference watching them on youtube or in raid.

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Yes but ennocunters do no push any story, there is no narrtive or lore elemets during boss fight outside of few random taunts from boss .

By that logic you don't need to play WoW at all because you can see everything about the story somewhere on the internet.

[mysticx]

All those are cinematics what you can watch on youtube. There is no gameplay involved which means there is no diference watching them on youtube or in raid.

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Yes but ennocunters do no push any story, there is no narrtive or lore elemets during boss fight outside of few random taunts from boss .

True, there may not be much exposition, but it’s still the end of the storylines, the final reckoning, if you will, i’d be fine with it if that was moved outside of raids, like Garrosh’s death, but Blizz cling to the “It has to be in a raid to count”-idea.

[Lei]

True, there may not be much exposition, but it’s still the end of the storylines, the final reckoning, if you will, i’d be fine with it if that was moved outside of raids, like Garrosh’s death, but Blizz cling to the “It has to be in a raid to count”-idea.

But then imagine N'zoth -as hard as it is to imagine it be even worse as it is - to be a quest end mob that you solo. Euw. :/

[mysticx]

But then imagine N'zoth -as hard as it is to imagine it be even worse as it is - to be a quest end mob that you solo. Euw. :/

True, that’s why they made the big bads raidbosses, to make it more epic to fight them (Despite N’zoth’s cinematic being a solo one again), it’s something they can’t just change on a whim, but i can dream, can’t i?

Not as if all that many raiders give a toss about the story, especially after the first few runs.

[Nfinitii]

The problem is lfr is a bunch of players thrown together who will never work together or coordinate.

In order to teach players then the content has to be hard enough for the raid to wipe. But as soon as the raid wipes player leave and become toxic. Then if the content is easy enough to not wipe the raid the mechanics And dps don’t matter.

If u just put different warnings telling the player what to do then they won’t learn the fight, they will just follow the pop ups without actually understanding y they have to do them.

If u had incentives for raiders to do lfr, ur basically forcing them to carry none raiders. And they still won’t learn, ur just forcing raiders to do content they don’t enjoy.

Only real way I c to force players to learn is through guild raids or pugs willing to Take the time to teach the player.

Or some kind of single players content that requires them to do the mechanics without major handholding to clear it.

That’s y I feel like lfr will never be more than a tourist mode designed to shove a bunch of players into a raid to c the content and should be removed.

[RoKPaNda]

And thats kinda problem isnt it? Give playerbase easy acess to raiding content completly removed all desire too do raiding content and even to extend to see content becouse process of experiencing content trought LFR simply isnt fun. It become chore. Instead of being potencialy excited to stand infront of Lady Vash or Grull people now go trought this slog just to finish wow content than quit game for rest of tier.

Also since content become more and more acessible in order to try retain players becouse you know things like LFR and LFG actualy decrese players retantion and play time Blizzard was forced to create new ways to progress our characters like essences, ap grinds and artifacts. Those systems exist becouse content itself could no longer retain players becouse game become too acessible.

That is a gross misunderstanding of the situation. They spent the first 3 expansions for WoW trying to get people into raiding and failed miserably. The only time they were remotely successful before LFR was when the content was completely undertuned (Naxx/Sarth/Malygos) and in that scenario people who were decent at raiding had no content to actually raid. Prior to LFR the lion's share of resources went into developing a new raid that only a small portion of players would actually see. LFR opened that up to the masses and then raids got better. We haven't had a completely trash throwaway tier like ToC / Firelands (Firelands being an island you could see the entirety of from the entrance with mostly reused assets and the bare minimum possible effort) since they added LFR and raiding has only gotten better and better since that point. LFR was good for those of us that don't do LFR. It's a net positive for the game. GC's regret was HOW they implemented LFR (it was initially a mess) not the feature itself.

The game is a decade and a half old. Player retention between content patches is going to be low. Do you honestly believe that pre-LFR people who weren't raiding (the LFR crowd) were sticking around between content patches to do absolutely nothing at all, but suddenly when they got content to do they started subbing less? Bizarre.

[Paperfox]

I used to raid, but I don't enjoy it much anymore. So I do LFR when I need to complete a quest chain or something. At a minimum I read the Adventure Guide on how to clear the bosses. Currently need to clear Nzoth, and I have watched a few videos on it and read the Guide and Wowhead, so yes I do make an effort to understand the fight. Once I clear it on one toon, I am unsure if I will do so on my alts.

[Scarnage86]

to reply OP
to make lfr really fun and engaging you need to make ppl focus more
lfr should be dooable even if 25 ppl ignore all mechaninc and autoattack, YES
but add a twist reward to the sistem player will join as bee on honey
Just add target loot % to specif item at the end of run instead random loot ONLY if all the wing is completed under a time check
so let's say a geared player want just a specific trinket, he will have all the interest in complete the run as fast and better he can!
if the group work well, at the end off the wing target loot will have a % to drop, (25% will be sweet)
if group fail, all remain as it is now

[AlmightyGerkin]

LFR does teach players to learn but the thing is it seems a lot of players don't want to. Damage for bosses and their mechanics is so low that they don't need to worry about it and just tunnel it. LFR is ....fine but the people are fucked.

[Alkizon]

Still just motivation and organization content&progress issues. "This" didn't come from a good mind or living.

[kappalol]

Proving Ground V.2

I remember. Also i remember people were whining at blizzard because they weren't able to finish silver difficulty which was so trivial you could do it in different spec.

[Advent]

People should have learned what these things do and how they work when there's no consequence to failing, as in the Mythic version. Being surprised at high keys is just wasting the time of four other people.

I don't find that ever working for me. If there's no consequence to failing, chances are I won't even notice it until I get to a key where it becomes dangerous. By then, it's too late.

[Sanguinerd]

WoW just needs to get rid of the trinity system and completely rework how raiding works. Don't design around addons like DBM/WA but make boss mechanics more obvious (with cones and other animations) but still difficult enough on higher difficulties for those that look for a challenge.

[Advent]

WoW just needs to get rid of the trinity system and completely rework how raiding works. Don't design around addons like DBM/WA but make boss mechanics more obvious (with cones and other animations) but still difficult enough on higher difficulties for those that look for a challenge.

And all the people who love playing tanks and healers just... what? Quit? Because I don't see them being pleased with their roles being removed.

[Sanguinerd]

And all the people who love playing tanks and healers just... what? Quit? Because I don't see them being pleased with their roles being removed.

Their roles will have to get reworked into a support system along with other specs.

[tikcol]

Mythic taught me how to be a better LFR player

[Nightstalker]

The Score System is dumb beyond compare since it'll only be used to be played around or fuck with other players.
How many more decades do guys like the OP need to play this game to finally realize it?

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Here's the thing with LFR. Its playerbase don't want to get better. That's not how they enjoy videogames. They are the guys who play on easy. They want to relax, hit a few buttons, and see a boss die. They aren't playing the game for the challenge. That's fine, they get to enjoy the content the way they want to, that's shouldn't stop you enjoying the raid at whatever level you prefer.

[BarosanuNr1]

I only do LFR to see the end of the stories (sort of like how zone quest lines used to end in a dungeon back in Classic). After I do that, the chances of me going back the second week are minuscule, as the content has nothing of value to offer even to non-raiders (and is also extremely, extremely boring).

I think the reason they haven't replaced LFR with single player scenarios is that removing/nerfing mechanics from the normal mode takes a lesser amount of work. LFR is a relic from a time before such things as instanced single player content became acceptable.

I support the idea of proving grounds as a means of increasing the players' skill, but in order to be successful they would have to provide adequate rewards for completion - not only some achievement that nobody cares about, but perhaps interesting cosmetic rewards. The latter type of rewards are ideal because they don't impact gear progression for competitive players and are, simultaneously, very popular with casual players. In this regard, we have similar features that are already implemented (e.g. the tower challenge in Legion, the nightmare challenges in BFA) and that could serve as a basis for further iteration.

If they replace LFR with features such as the ones described above I sincerely doubt that anyone will complain. Does anyone actually enjoy LFR for the content itself?