No Bards in Lore?

[FossilFree]

I think the whole Void Elf/High Elf thing has shown us clearly that there is never really a barrier to anything Blizzard does. If they want to add something, they will make it work.

[Teriz]

For him to be "privy to what the general fanbase is asking for", the playerbase has to actually ask for said something. And, so far, I haven't seen a single shred of evidence of the playerbase actually asking for pandaren as a playable race, whatsoever.

Just because you've never seen the evidence doesn't mean that the evidence doesn't exist. Blizzard has stated that the evidence existed and that's why they released the playable race. Do you believe that a company would spend time and money to develop something with no demand?

It's no different from if the Diablo: Immortal developers said that a mobile Diablo game was what the playerbase wanted.

Which is also probably true, despite the protests of a loud minority.

They've been mentioned several times in this thread.

Ah yes, a ghost in stratholme with Hunter abilities, a tribute character who hasn't been seen in that form since Cataclysm, and a bunch of unrelated NPCs with zero abilities. One of which is stationed in the Rogue class hall indicating that Bards are simply a type of Rogue.

Yeah, that's totally up there with a WC3 hero unit and major lore character.

One: we do. They have been mentioned several times in this thread. Two: you haven't proved that we need a Warcraft 3/WoW character to make a class, that we can't make a class without one.

Yeah, its just simply a trait that exists in every class...

Of course not. But that doesn't change the fact that they are using Chinese martial arts-inspired techniques.


It does not. Really, it doesn't. It's all about getting drunk with special, magical beer, and fighting bare-fist. And fighting bare-fist does not equal to "monk". Otherwise, any bar brawler would be considered a monk.

And this just goes to show that you didn't actually read the material;

Brewmasters practice a unique fighting style. They combine typical pandaren finesse and strength with the appearance of being drunk, stumbling apparently at random. When they sway to avoid a blow or swing a wild fist, their proficiency appears accidental.

Drunken Stance: the brewmaster refines his martial art and learns methods of evasion, combat, and balance. Each time the brewmaster gains one of these levels he learns one of the following special abilities of his choice.

Drunken Fist: Using the swaggering and tumbling motions of the drunken Chiew-Wu style, the brewmaster can generate massive amounts of power in a single attack

Drunken Defense: The brewmaster’s fighting style relies on deceptive staggering and tumbling to mimic the exaggerated and comedic swagger of a drunken fool.

Hmm, a martial art that mimics the appearance of a drunk in order to deceive an opponent... I wonder what real world Chinese martial art they could have been inspired by.....

*sigh* I'll repeat what you clearly didn't read, despite quoting it:

And

And once again, the Death Knight and the Demon Hunter had original abilities from WC3 even before they became WoW classes. Hearthsinger Forrensten only has Hunter abilities. And I really must stress that when the only two "Bards" who have ever shown abilities haven't re-appeared in similar form in over a decade, I really wouldn't base anything on them.

- - - Updated - - -

I think the whole Void Elf/High Elf thing has shown us clearly that there is never really a barrier to anything Blizzard does. If they want to add something, they will make it work.

The key part of that is if they want to add something.

The problem is that Blizzard has never displayed a desire to create a Bard class or even a Bard hero. Its very telling that there isn't even a Bard class in their table top games, a situation where creating a Bard would be relatively easy and fitting. But no, there is NO Bard class in the table top games either. At BEST you have an in-game tribute to Blizzard's former head of sound design, and IMO that's a shaky to non-existent example because Blizzard isn't going to create substantial lore, much less an expansion around a former employee.

[Ielenia]

Just because you've never seen the evidence doesn't mean that the evidence doesn't exist.

Except mine is not just one single instance of me looking for it, but almost fifteen years of me reading the official forums and the MMO-Champion forums, and never seeing a single instance of people requesting pandaren as a playable race. On top of that, there is the massive backlash that happened when pandaren were announced. That is not something that we expect to see for a "widely requested race".

Blizzard has stated that the evidence existed and that's why they released the playable race. Do you believe that a company would spend time and money to develop something with no demand?

Was there any demand for Overwatch and Heroes of the Storm? Or Hearthstone? Regardless of your opinions about those games' successes or failures, there was no demand for those games. Was there?

Which is also probably true, despite the protests of a loud minority.

"Loud minority"? Really?

Ah yes, a ghost in stratholme with Hunter abilities(1), a tribute character who hasn't been seen in that form since Cataclysm(2), and a bunch of unrelated NPCs with zero abilities(3). One of which is stationed in the Rogue class hall indicating that Bards are simply a type of Rogue(4).

1) Meaningless descriptors that in no way, shape or form disqualify the character.
2) Same as above, with the added irony that Chen Stormstout hasn't been seen since Warcraft 3, and barely mentioned during Vanilla... and never again until MoP.
3) Once again: NPCs having abilities or not is irrelevant, since abilities are drawn from concepts, not the other way around. That's like saying:
• You need cars to make a blueprint, not the other way around.
• You need a story to create plot points, not the other way around.
• You need to build a house, before you create its foundation.

Teriz, the logical progression of class design is: concept -> class -> abilities. Not the other way around.

Yeah, its just simply a trait that exists in every class...

And that is not in dispute. The dispute is this claim that this trait is a requirement. You know a trait that has existed in every class in the game until the end of 2015? All classes had at least 3 specs. I don't think I need to remind you what happened in 2016, right?

And this just goes to show that you didn't actually read the material;

I did read the material. Over and over. Again, "martial arts" does not necessarily mean the sort of martial arts an oriental monk would practice. I'm not sorry, but that's a fact.

And once again, the Death Knight and the Demon Hunter had original abilities from WC3 even before they became WoW classes. Hearthsinger Forrensten only has Hunter abilities. And I really must stress that when the only two "Bards" who have ever shown abilities haven't re-appeared in similar form in over a decade, I really wouldn't base anything on them.

And, again, that does not matter. Because we're talking about Blizzard creating new abilities, and it's been already established as a fact that if there is a spell within the game that does "close enough" to what Blizzard intends a character to do, then they'll use that ability instead of creating a new one. No class in the game has an "unholy aura"- or "metamorphosis"-like ability, which is why they created those abilities for the NPCs. Because of their concepts, not because of the WC3 abilities.

[Djaye]

I think the whole Void Elf/High Elf thing has shown us clearly that there is never really a barrier to anything Blizzard does. If they want to add something, they will make it work.

pretty much. Blizzard doesnt give a shite about lore, continuity, or anything in their game making sense. it has become all about the hamster wheel and whatever to keep the mice running. so keep running little mouse, keep running

[Teriz]

Except mine is not just one single instance of me looking for it, but almost fifteen years of me reading the official forums and the MMO-Champion forums, and never seeing a single instance of people requesting pandaren as a playable race. On top of that, there is the massive backlash that happened when pandaren were announced. That is not something that we expect to see for a "widely requested race".

So we have your memory versus Blizzard’s official statement? Hilarious.

Was there any demand for Overwatch and Heroes of the Storm? Or Hearthstone? Regardless of your opinions about those games' successes or failures, there was no demand for those games. Was there?

Uh yes to all of that.

1) Meaningless

Yes we get it, anything that opposes your warped opinion is meaningless or a lie.

Teriz, the logical progression of class design is: concept -> class -> abilities. Not the other way around.

Except your argument is that the concept and the class already exists, so where are the abilities?

And that is not in dispute. The dispute is this claim that this trait is a requirement. You know a trait that has existed in every class in the game until the end of 2015? All classes had at least 3 specs. I don't think I need to remind you what happened in 2016, right?

And according to Blizzard three specs were planned. They dropped it because of the limited design space of the class. However, spec number is a far different situation than having a concept with zero lore and pretty much zero presence in WoW.

I did read the material. Over and over. Again, "martial arts" does not necessarily mean the sort of martial arts an oriental monk would practice. I'm not sorry, but that's a fact.

So the Pandaren Brewmaster performing Pandaren martial arts in the WoW RPG isn’t the same as the Brewmaster performing Pandaren martial arts within the Monk class in WoW?

And, again, that does not matter.

Of course it doesn’t. Feel free to have the last word.

[Ielenia]

So we have your memory versus Blizzard’s official statement? Hilarious.

It's your memory too, mind you, considering you can't come up with a single example of players requesting pandaren as a playable race.

Uh yes to all of that.

Ok. Show me the player demands for a Blizzard FPS, a Blizzard online TCG, and a Blizzard MOBA. I'd say "I'll be waiting", but I know you won't produce anything.

Yes we get it, anything that opposes your warped opinion is meaningless or a lie.

And you need to remove almost the entire line, leave only a single word of it, and make a (failed attempt at) a joking remark on that single word while not addressing the argument whatsoever.

Except your argument is that the concept and the class already exists, so where are the abilities?

I never said the class exists. If it did, there wouldn't be any requests for playable bards since playable bards already existed. I only said the concepts for the class exist.

And according to Blizzard three specs were planned. They dropped it because of the limited design space of the class.

Yes. And if "common traits present in all the classes" was really this arbitrary rule of yours that says it's "mandatory", then either the Demon Hunter class would have three specs, or it just wouldn't happen because it doesn't satisfy the "three specs" trait. The fact that demon hunter exists, though, it's decisive proof that common traits within the classes are not "mandatory requirements" for class design.

However, spec number is a far different situation than having a concept with zero lore and pretty much zero presence in WoW.

You're wrong. In every single word in that sentence. They're not different situations. They the exact same situation: a common trait shared by all classes in the game, vanilla and expansions. And as for the bards, again, you're wrong: they have lore, and quite a good sum of it too, and they do have presence in Azeroth.

So the Pandaren Brewmaster performing Pandaren martial arts in the WoW RPG isn’t the same as the Brewmaster performing Pandaren martial arts within the Monk class in WoW?

Nope. First, one is from a non-canon source. Second, the RPG class is not a monk. Simple as that. It's just a guy that makes magical beer.

Of course it doesn’t. Feel free to have the last word.

Once again, you cut off the entire context and explanation from the paragraph just to make a derisive comment that doesn't address the argument whatsoever.

[Shadowferal]

. If they want to add something, they will make it work.

Add something, yes.
Whether it works is subject to interpretation.

[FossilFree]

Looks like bard abilities are getting even more exposure in SL:

Faeries
Mischievous tricksters of the woods, the mercurial faeries of Ardenweald use a mix of theatrical talents and cunning to care for rejuvenating spirits. Faeries use song to soothe away the pain of the great, resting spirits and snatch up lesser creatures lured by their eerie melodies, grinding them up into poultices. Faeries are just as easy to appease as they are to offend, so be wary of your actions.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...t-fae-covenant