Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Ielenia]

I read an interesting lore rationale for Void Elf Paladins (or Void Knights if you prefer). Basically put, the organization of VE Paladins are those Void Elves who feel their transformation by Durzaan has made them monsters, and sought an infusion of the Light as a "cure" for their condition. The infusion was surprisingly successful, but it did not fix the condition of being tainted by the Void - and now the Light and Void exist at once within them, causing violent feedback loops that are exceedingly painful when these Paladins channel their light abilities. A beneficial side-effect, however, is that the surges of pain also blanket out the cacophony of the Void and make the voice of the Light all the more clarion. The Void Knights embrace their self-sacrifice to show that the ren'dorei are not lost to the Void, and that even when shrouded by the Void's touch can still reach out to embrace the Light.

I... honestly like this idea. A pity this is never going to happen because we know Blizzard has not shown that level of creativity for class design options, unfortunately.

[FlubberPuddy]

I... honestly like this idea. A pity this is never going to happen because we know Blizzard has not shown that level of creativity for class design options, unfortunately.

It's a great way to go about it too considering that Void Elves are all about 'control'.

Plus, WoW's always had Light/Void have a sense of duality. Ashbringer was created from a very dark shadowy object. Naarus can change states between Light and Void.

Plus Tauren Paladins are 'lorewise' Sun Druids. Paladin is just the gameplay aspect of it.

Could always make VE have some 'void knight' but it plays as Paladin in gameplay. Especially if class skins happen.

[Aldo Hawk]

It's a great way to go about it too considering that Void Elves are all about 'control'.

Plus, WoW's always had Light/Void have a sense of duality. Ashbringer was created from a very dark shadowy object. Naarus can change states between Light and Void.

Plus Tauren Paladins are 'lorewise' Sun Druids. Paladin is just the gameplay aspect of it.

Could always make VE have some 'void knight' but it plays as Paladin in gameplay. Especially if class skins happen.

I mean, I understand that you want this new option to be as complete as possible, but the backstory of it is officially still Void elven.

What does this mean? Yeah sure, now there are Void elves that don't look like the original ones, and there might even be new ones that don't look like that because their process to become a Void elf was different, and some of them would be the High elves we all asked for given the way the new ones look and the fact that there are actual High elves learning the void in Telogrus.

So... I think asking for entropic embrace to not proc or to have a different visual, or asking for some more natural hair colors is more than okay, but classes? Let's not forget 'Wildhammer' Dwarves can be paladins, what's with that? Oh yes, it's Blizzard being cheap and half-assed.

From my part I'm happy people can now actually play High elves somehow (or more, an even more specific kind of High elf), and not some strange crap that was a Blood elf yesterday. But I think there's still some way to go, and some more things that could actually be achievable in the future. And you all have seen it, not enough anti people being dense, fallacious and intellectually dishonest have done anything to stop this and even to get us anything, so don't give up on anything because some 4 poor dudes come to the forums all day every day just to make sure something they don't like doesn't happen.

But that's where I'm not going to be, on Void elf paladins, since these new High elves might be actual High elves, but surely they don't align with the Light, since these new ones went to Telogrus to willfully learn the Void.

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Whether they're willing or not, it's he who raises them because he has the power to do that. That's my only point, specifically in comparison to Demon Hunters and their creation.

You were literally arguing that there was not a reason anymore to train new Demon Hunters and that 'because they want to' would be a bad argument.

Then I pointed out at new DKs seeming to be individuals willingly deciding so, for not apparent reason, not that if it makes sense that a Lich King could do that or not, that's out of question.

I mean, your words literally are: 'The driving force behind the creation and training of Demon Hunters is no longer there so what motivations are there to become a Demon Hunter? I'd be "satisfied" with them going....because I want to...but honestly that really doesn't make sense and is really really weak.'

Your point was also that 'because they want to' is a bad excuse regarding these kind of classes, not that if it makes sense that a damn Lich King can create new DKs or not, which has always been out of the question - by the way -.

[DeicideUH]

From my part I'm happy, and now focused on suggesting ideas on how to enhance void elf customization to appease both void and high elf fans without taking anything more from blood elves. I think a lot of old requests regarding high elves could now be inherited by void elves, like colored tattoos, dual-color hair, some of the hair styles suggested for high elves and so on.

As for the paladin class, I think for now that's out of question. Maybe in a future date, when Blizzard decides to increase class/race combinations, it may be considered, but for now I think it's a waste of effort, as it's very unlikely to happen, and the deal we got cover most of the would-be high elf classes.

ANother thing that bothers me is the lack of void elf lore, and unfortunately Shadowlands will be a terrible expansion to develop it. I'm hoping with this update Blizzard won't shy away from using high elves anymore, and we will eventually get more high/void elf lore when we return to Azeroth.

[ravenmoon]

Some players are complaining that BE & HE will now be exactly the same. An excellent way to create the distinction is to give high elves their legacy warpaint. Blood elves design diverged from this in WC3, and it would be silly to revert BEs to high elf designs. Part of the whole point of high elves is that they never left that way of thinking behind. BEs would get their acane runes that fit the BE design philosophy and way of thinking. Problem solved.

I don't see why that is a problem.. they are the same lorewise. Peopel just like to complain while some expect blizzard to do einredible detail on everything. Many just wanted to play high elves or have a decent model on the alliance for a change.

Many of these sub-race groups are not created to be some brand new race, just minor variations at best. Some of the people calling for races like Nightborne, Highmountain to be even more distinctive don't get why they exist. Nightborne for example are a Highborne led Night elven community on the pre-sundering culture that hasn't been shown yet in game, but has in-game groups like the shen'dralar of that disposition - they were just never shown it in game, we are just told (Dire maul isn't updated or repaired, and blizzard don' build a new city for the fabled group. But blizzard ended up doing it when they did Suramar, and decided they would make the night elves in it a new modified type..that's it.

It's not a new race, it's not something completley different from what the lore we know of Night elven cultures is. (Yes NElves have more than one type of culture - in fact most realistic races would) and they would have various nations, even minor superficial differences like irl has peopel with skin colour and facial feature variations.

Blizzard don't have to distinguish high elves from blood elves any more than they have in terms of models. They are meant to be the same race, void elves just a variant , the main differences are in the story, they can be political, or ideological, or historical etc, there are differences but they don't have to go out of their way. I think they've acheived what they want with them and most players anyway wanted to have these other groups as they saw them when they were introduced in game as NPC races. That's why sub-races were extremely popular.

Without doubt some people are going to be disapointed wanting a full race from what is essentially a sub-faction or sub-race, but hey blizzard accomplished what they wanted. I am one of the players that would like more details and differences, but I'm okay if I don't get it for the purpose of these races, I wouldn't be disatissified or rage at blizzard for doing a crap job or anything like that.

Besides, I think they did well with void elves having a different look that gave them a vibe that fit the theme. Now the interesting stories can start, and it would serve them well if they do good ones.

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From my part I'm happy, and now focused on suggesting ideas on how to enhance void elf customization to appease both void and high elf fans without taking anything more from blood elves. I think a lot of old requests regarding high elves could now be inherited by void elves, like colored tattoos, dual-color hair, some of the hair styles suggested for high elves and so on.

As for the paladin class, I think for now that's out of question. Maybe in a future date, when Blizzard decides to increase class/race combinations, it may be considered, but for now I think it's a waste of effort, as it's very unlikely to happen, and the deal we got cover most of the would-be high elf classes.

ANother thing that bothers me is the lack of void elf lore, and unfortunately Shadowlands will be a terrible expansion to develop it. I'm hoping with this update Blizzard won't shy away from using high elves anymore, and we will eventually get more high/void elf lore when we return to Azeroth.

Yes, high/void elf lore would be good, lots of things they can do there, with the two being different but also similar. I still would like to see void elf night elf interactions and friendships develop, and we could have void elves lean towards the night elves now while high elves take their place as the human friends they've always been.


I'd like more explroation of the dark side of the moon and Elune's void side and this should draw void elves to the night elves, whether faith based or intellectual driven or both. Would be nice to see more.

[Sarallesta]

It is a part of WoW. Stop trying to make everyone the same and water it down.

I honestly do not understand you. If these options given to the Void Elves to help push there lore further, then it might also make sense to why there is High Elf Wayfarers and Blood Elf Scholars inside Telogrus Rift. Giving Void Elves the skin/eye customisations as to Blood Elves isn't destroying the lore, nor ruining what is part of WoW, because Blood Elves are still Blood Elves within the name, same to as Void Elves are still Void Elves within the name.

EDIT:

I'm just going to leave a quote here, of what one of the MVP's on the WoW Forums have posted to another person against the idea of Void Elves getting these new customisations

So many people who seem to come to these forums with their only mission being to try and make sure people don’t get the things they want to see or like in the game, people who will make up absurd accusations and logical fallacies, constantly move their argument goal posts, and then devolve into kicking and screaming when inevitably they didn’t get their way and couldn’t stop those people from getting the things they have passionately asked for.

[Sharby]

Also in the grand scheme of things Velf paladins wouldn't change anything gameplay-wise.



Hell even the overarching story wouldn't be affected either?





Lore has always bent for gameplay. If High Elves can be Paladins and some Void Elves are Helves, then Velf Paladins can happen.

[FlubberPuddy]

From my part I'm happy, and now focused on suggesting ideas on how to enhance void elf customization to appease both void and high elf fans without taking anything more from blood elves. I think a lot of old requests regarding high elves could now be inherited by void elves, like colored tattoos, dual-color hair, some of the hair styles suggested for high elves and so on.

As for the paladin class, I think for now that's out of question. Maybe in a future date, when Blizzard decides to increase class/race combinations, it may be considered, but for now I think it's a waste of effort, as it's very unlikely to happen, and the deal we got cover most of the would-be high elf classes.

ANother thing that bothers me is the lack of void elf lore, and unfortunately Shadowlands will be a terrible expansion to develop it. I'm hoping with this update Blizzard won't shy away from using high elves anymore, and we will eventually get more high/void elf lore when we return to Azeroth.

Yes this is actually how I feel about it all too. I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of the customizations coming to Void Elves for Alliance High Elves.

I'm in no rush to get them to have Paladin as a class and I think more probably should change before it happens (such as class skins maybe, or somehow blizz makes the lore make it fit).

I also agree that Void Elf lore is lacking and that's a big issue that should be given attention as well. Along with High Elves, I hope to see Alliance showcasing a plethora of High/Void and perhaps scant few Blood Elves (in relation to Void Elves) who decided to break away from Silvermoon/Quel'thalas.

After all, High Elves were admonished for being 'all too willing to mingle' with other races

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I honestly do not understand you. If these options given to the Void Elves to help push there lore further, then it might also make sense to why there is High Elf Wayfarers and Blood Elf Scholars inside Telogrus Rift. Giving Void Elves the skin/eye customisations as to Blood Elves isn't destroying the lore, nor ruining what is part of WoW, because Blood Elves are still Blood Elves within the name, same to as Void Elves are still Void Elves within the name.

I used to say before that Blizzard shouldn't appease people who can only enjoy something by denying it from others (which is how many anti-helfers come across).

I'm glad they decided to be pro-more options and pro-sharing.

[Sarallesta]

I'm glad they decided to be pro-more options and pro-sharing.

Oh, I am just happy to see that the pro's are finally getting some love. Ok, it may not be the actual High Elves that we have had in the Alliance, but with the new customisations, it could also lead to pushing the lore even more forward with the Void Elves, instead of the current, "10 second to right, that is it".

But one thing I am kind of hoping for is that Blizzard can also add in an option to disable the effect of Entropic Embrace, whether we talk to an NPC, or they give us customisation options for how that racial looks when it goes off.

[Monster Hunter]

Which means absolutely nothing.
Dranei were not an alliance race, until they were.
Neither were Goblins a horde group, until they were (even though a goblin works for the alliance prior to cata).
The alliance didn't have an Alliance race of high elves. They left between WC2 and WC3, before world of warcraft.
The alliance is owed nothing, they're a fiction faction. The devs want them to be on the horde, so they hit the horde.



You are complaining that the comparison of two groups being different solely by their political views, isn't good enough because it doesn't have the same background history as another group that is different due to their political views.
Your response was pedantic, and only enforced my point.
So I am not sure why you ducked under the point to argue about nothing.



Is this a friggin joke?
I've played Alliance all the way until BFA, where my wife wanted to go Horde since she'd always been alliance. The difference in what the Alliance have and what the Horde have is insane.
Prior to the release of Cata, the Horde had worse questing areas and less area to go questing. This is due to the fact that the Horde was designed last and was rushed last minute. So it took all the way until Cata to give them an equal amount of questing areas to the alliance and an equal number of capital cities.
The alliance has also had greater variety than the Horde in mounts, both ground and in flying mounts. They still have access to their bike, despite losing the voting contest (lol) because alliance screamed hard enough.
They had better racials overall for PvE for a majority of the game's time span.
The RP community is more expansive.
The pet players are more expansive.
The community in every aspect outside of raids/m+ is beter for the alliance.

Heck, the Alliance even acquired 2 of the Horde PvP mounts!

The ONLY area that the Horde has an advantage is

1. Raiding. The Horde has always had a stronger raiding community. They had better M+ until BFA, where the alliance wins due to shadowmeld.
2. Mentality. The Alliance whines and complains the moment the Horde gets anything. OH NO THE STATUE AT BLIZZARD! OH NO WE ARENT THE MAIN FOCUS OF THE STORY!

So if you want to do ANYTHING else besides raid and M+? You go alliance.
Their cities are better designed (Boralis vs Dazar alor), the aesthetics is better (WoD base), and their story doesn't involve them constantly regressing to WC2 behavior. Their racials are even better oh, AND they just got the entire design of a core race the horde has had since TBC.

Shafted indeed.

Prior to the announcement, it seemingly wasn't possible because Alleria's change was thorugh different circumstances.
Clearly this has changed, so I don't see why I'd disagree with you in this aspect.
I simply don't approve of it because it means that the alliance, once again, gets more than the Horde.

They get two themes to play. The horde gets one.
So...why would you play a blood elf when you can just play a void elf?
Blood elves aren't even a desired race in raids.

I mean, any person who wants easier to find groups, more bg wins, easier to find raiding guilds, better raiding guilds and just in general wants the perks of tapping into a much larger end game orionatated playerbase but likes the emo elf look would naturally role a blood elf on hord.

I mean let's face it, at this point trying to seriously mythic raid on the alliance is like trying to masturbait to porn wrong for your preference, its doable, arguably still some what pleasurable, but its definatly far from optimal. As much as I'd love to push mythic as an alliance paladin again, being zandalari or tauren just makes everything end game 1000x easier.

The benefit of being hord nowadays is so great that it outweighs the racial aesthetic choice for many, I would happily go back to being a human paladin, but that would be massively handicapping my self for the sake of aesthetic.

[FlubberPuddy]

I mean let's face it, at this point trying to seriously mythic raid on the alliance is like trying to masturbait to porn wrong for your preference, its doable, arguably still some what pleasurable, but its definatly far from optimal. As much as I'd love to push mythic as an alliance paladin again, being zandalari or tauren just makes everything end game 1000x easier.

"seriously mythic raid" is pretty vague as there's plenty of mythic alliance teams.

Now if you meant something like top 100 in the world (or even per faction d/t Hall of Fame) then sure, eke out as many advantages as possible. That's part of being competitive.

[Monster Hunter]

"seriously mythic raid" is pretty vague as there's plenty of mythic alliance teams.

Now if you meant something like top 100 in the world (or even per faction d/t Hall of Fame) then sure, eke out as many advantages as possible. That's part of being competitive.

It's not just that. Arguably it's easier to get top 100 alliance as they rarely fill the 100 before it's closed.

It's the gravitation that having so many really good guilds has had on the player base, I'm not there because I want top 100, but I do want to seriously try to clear each mythic befor the next raid release. Which comes with alot of leg work, and that's just a hell of alot easier in the faction where most of the people wanting to do that harder content have congregated.

We know hord and alliance pop wise are actualy 50/50ish, yet there's massively more hord guilds logging mythic kills and clearing heroic and sich faster, more m+ players pushing in the 10-20 brackets, there simply more people doing the content I most enjoy so naturally that just then makes it easier to do that activity.

[Sharby]

It's not just that. Arguably it's easier to get top 100 alliance as they rarely fill the 100 before it's closed.

It's the gravitation that having so many really good guilds has had on the player base, I'm not there because I want top 100, but I do want to seriously try to clear each mythic befor the next raid release. Which comes with alot of leg work, and that's just a hell of alot easier in the faction where most of the people wanting to do that harder content have congregated.

We know hord and alliance pop wise are actualy 50/50ish, yet there's massively more hord guilds logging mythic kills and clearing heroic and sich faster, more m+ players pushing in the 10-20 brackets, there simply more people doing the content I most enjoy so naturally that just then makes it easier to do that activity.

Even as a casual Horde is still better for it as more players are raiding heroic/normal and far more M+ keys available.



I'm not sure what Alliance players do but trying to play my Alliance mains now as a casual just blows, it feels like the game is dead.




That being said in ShL I'ma still max out all my Alliance toons and make a High Elf alt because Alliance story characters/overall aesthetic when it comes to questing are far better imo.

[Powerogue]

I mean I guess it’s fine that Void Elves are getting these customizations but it seems incredibly greedy to ask for every single option that Blood Elves have. Let their hair colors remain locked. Let some distinction remain between the two, because it’s super annoying that BE’s seem to be getting the shaft in this deal (blue eyes notwithstanding). There’s no unique Blood Elf only skin. If we got Dark Ranger colors this would be fine.

I know void elves have black hair, which should look good with normal skin tones. They're not all purple.

If I'm greedy about anything it'd be getting those half-void forms with the glowing hands I see around, and some glow-in-the-dark alleria styled tattooes. Dark purple for void elves, light blue or gold for blood elves and in different styles.

[Ardenaso]

Sigh, you know, that if Blizzard was just going to say fuck it and release fair skinned elves at the end, then they already indirectly admit that Void Elves were a mistake and they should have made High Elves as an Allied Race instead

Now that we're here anyway, I'm going to join the naysayers in the anti-blonde Void Elf crusade

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Void Elf Paladins are debatable still

[matrix123mko]

Its because i Arthas, when he becomes a paladin is able to lift his hammer as if it is nothing.
Furthermore, it has been shown void and light cancel each other out entirely.
This is supported by the nature of the blood knights as well who infused themselves with the Naaru' power to be blood knights.

Blood knights are totally different from other paladins. It is like comparing druids to thornspeakers.

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given that Paladins are immune to blight and disease I'd say yes

I think it is more the matter of Light being able to save them from diseases. In game they have spell for that.

[Varodoc]

Sunwalkers aren't void elves asking for a Paladin class.
Sunwalkers also don't share the same appearance as blood elves either.
Farstriders are rangers, and they don't steal the sentinel's identity because night elves are a different thing.

I am not sure why you insist on throwing out red herrings. You couldn't even admit being wrong about blood knights being paladins.

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It was explained long ago.
When you die, the light/void leave your body.
Deathmagic is not opposed to either of those two forces as well

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Lightforged shadow priests are a thing because of gameplay design. You can't restrict specs the way you can classes.
undead paladins are also explained as well.

It is a part of WoW. Stop trying to make everyone the same and water it down.

It is the way WoW is.
Frankly, its bad enough void elves steal the blood elf theme, why take their paladin class too?

I am not wrong though. VE paladins don't hurt anyone. It's a videogame ffs. Do you know what will happen when they become playable? You will moan for 1 day and then move on like nothing happened.

[Strippling]

don't quit yet, join me on my no-blonde-void-elf crusade

Oh I ain't quitting. I wanted to congratulate the "pro's" on their win, but also stated that I will surely advocate against anything they breaks the immersion of the game (ie lore breaking void elf paladins) or against anything that further detracts from the unique aesthetics of blood elves (ie blood elves retaining their hair color and styles). Personally, I find it extremely unlikely that void elf paladins will be implemented. Blizzard are obviously going all out with customization options, but when it comes to race/class combos they have always had a strong focus on what makes sense lore wise... and lore wise void elf paladins is about as lore breaking as you can get.

With regards to void elf customizations, I'm sure they will be getting plenty more... but obviously I hope any additional options they get don't come at the expense of blood elves losing their uniqueness. Also, it'd be nice to see other ARs getting some customization love. Nightborne are severely lacking

[Varodoc]

Lightforged DKs are just as "lore-breaking" as void elves paladins. Blizzard has already said they don't want continuity to tie their hands. Let's stop deluding ourselves that void elves paladins will never happen because it would be "lore-breaking".

[Strippling]

Broken should not be just an option for draenei, they are cleatly another race/subrace all together



There is already people in the official forums spamming that void elves should get, literally, all blood elf customization options, should also get their racials or new ones or disable theirs, that they should also get the paladin class and of course their names be changed from void elf to high elf in everything

you give an inch they want a mile, is how they say?

To be fair, many of the pro crowd have stated they're happy to settle with what has been given. There however always some "bad apples mixed among the good", these players wouldn't be happy till they get exactly what they want even if it meant breaking the lore or costing blood elves all of their uniqueness.

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I am not wrong though. VE paladins don't hurt anyone. It's a videogame ffs. Do you know what will happen when they become playable? You will moan for 1 day and then move on like nothing happened.

Lore and immersion are important parts of the game. How would you feel if blizzard had decided to transform any remaining alliance high elf into a withered just for some story beat? How would other "pro" players feel? If you complained then would it be fair for us to say "it's just a game ffs" and expect you to get over it 1 day later? It's a videogame, yes, but every game abides by certain rules and principles that form the experience of that game. The lore is one of WoW's attributes that form a part of the game's immersion. It's not about restricting things for the sake of it, it's about preserving important aspects of the game. Else we might as well make gnome and tauren DH (despite how silly they'd look and feel), murlock paladins, goblin druids, etc..