Got booted. Am I the bad guy?

[SirCowdog]

Ok and you're the kind of person I immediately kick from a raid as soon as you disenchant just ONE piece of loot. Hell, I kick people who outright refuse gear that they don't actually equip. I only run groups for people who are actually going to either use the gear or give the gear to someone who can use it. And guess what? That's my right because it's MY group. Just like that raid leader had every right to kick OP.

And you damn well should make that abundantly clear UP FRONT before anyone joins. Otherwise that's a failure on your part.

Sure, you still control the raid leader spot, and so can kick or invite whoever you want. But don't expect to be popular, or have return players, if you don't tell them the rules or change them later without notice.

[3DTyrant]

If there were no mentioned loot "rules" upon joining the group , I'd say you're well within your rights to tell the hunter no. It's personal loot, and RNG is RNG, you got the loot, so you dictate what you do with your loot. You could've vendored the item right there and then if you so pleased.

[qwerty123456]

I understand perfectly.

You're conflating that the value of the item to the hunter outweighs the value of the item to the OP. Which, again in a purely technical sense, you're correct. But when applied to the practical situation, it doesn't matter WHAT the value is to the hunter. It could be a brutosaurus drop that no one in the raid has(yes I know that doesn't happen). Does that mean that the person who wins the roll should just give it up because it also holds some value to another player?

The hunter in question has ZERO claim on the drop. None. Everyone in the raid entered it with no prior agreements or arrangements, leaving everything up to the RNG of the personal loot system. As I said before: There's nothing wrong with the hunter asking if he can have the drop. But the conversation ends when the actual receiver of the drop says "No." That is the ENTIRE POINT of personal loot(something I argued vehemently against back before the removal of master loot, btw).

Would it have been cool and super altruistic for the OP to give up the item? Sure. But it is also absolutely NOT selfish to keep the item either. In fact, his decision to keep the drop was justified by the entitled, petty, and rude reaction that the hunter and the rest of the raid had after. Whatever value the item may have had to the hunter was nullified by that behavior.

Thats not how selfishness works. If you are dying in the street and I have the ability to save you and consider saving you but then see blood and mud all over and don't want to get my new white shoes ruined so I walk away clearly I am being selfish. I could then find out later that you are a murderer who poorly juggles babies for fun but that still doesn't change the fact that in that moment I was being selfish.

I totally agree that it was within his right to keep the item but it was still selfish. An action being selfish doesn't make it evil.

[friedburrito]

this is why you don't loot gear until you get to the mailbox.

pretty much this.

[MjH]

Thats not how selfishness works. If you are dying in the street and I have the ability to save you and consider saving you but then see blood and mud all over and don't want to get my new white shoes ruined so I walk away clearly I am being selfish. I could then find out later that you are a murderer who poorly juggles babies for fun but that still doesn't change the fact that in that moment I was being selfish.

I totally agree that it was within his right to keep the item but it was still selfish. An action being selfish doesn't make it evil.

Spot on! Not sure why people are assuming the act of being selfish an evil thing. I look at it from the view he was being selfish prioritizing his UPGRADE over yours regardless of the UPGRADE disparity. I could see in a team aka guild environment you make the sacrifice to help the group as a whole but some random group.. Nah at that point its your choice.

[SirCowdog]

Thats not how selfishness works. If you are dying in the street and I have the ability to save you and consider saving you but then see blood and mud all over and don't want to get my new white shoes ruined so I walk away clearly I am being selfish. I could then find out later that you are a murderer who poorly juggles babies for fun but that still doesn't change the fact that in that moment I was being selfish.

I totally agree that it was within his right to keep the item but it was still selfish. An action being selfish doesn't make it evil.

Ok stop. This isnt a life or death scenario. It's videogame loot.

I already said you were technically correct. But That's all you have: a bare thread of correctness based on a stringent definition. But what does winning that technicality do for your argument? Great, you won a dictionary definition.

In practical terms this is a breakdown of whether or not the OP acted correctly. And he did. Was it a tiny teeny little bit selfish? I guess. But he was well within the bounds of perfectly acceptable and right action, especially given the RL and hunter's actions after. Those are the kinds of people that created the state where it's better to have the postmaster deliver your loot.

[TheRevenantHero]

And you damn well should make that abundantly clear UP FRONT before anyone joins. Otherwise that's a failure on your part.

Sure, you still control the raid leader spot, and so can kick or invite whoever you want. But don't expect to be popular, or have return players, if you don't tell them the rules or change them later without notice.

I do make it known. But people like OP refuse to make it known they'll mulch items rather than give it to someone who actually needs it because he knows people won't take him to the raid.

[Tatakau]

It's your loot, and the fact he started crying afterwards shows you made the right choice.

[Loveliest]

You're not the bad guy. In my guild's raids azerite pieces are yours to decide what to do with because residuum gives you a piece of loot. You're stressing over nothing.

[ssjgohan4life]

True its kind of selfish not to hand it over for somebody is far more useful for, however you are not required to do anything but what you want with personal loot and they have every right to kick you for not following how they'd want you to handle it.

[anveena]

Keeping a drop you've gotten from a pug isn't being a dick or selfish. I hope you tossed those asshats on ignore.

[Monster Hunter]

True its kind of selfish not to hand it over for somebody is far more useful for, however you are not required to do anything but what you want with personal loot and they have every right to kick you for not following how they'd want you to handle it.

They wernt up front that it was a raid intended to boost there hunter freind, and the default for pugs is your loot is your loot no one else is entitled to it for any reason.

That is a factor in this no one's getting, the op was providing a very large boost along with a few others to these guys that without they would have struggled to kill anything at all.

If some one gives there loot in a pug run, it's is a gift and should be seen as such. No one has a right to some one else's loot, no matter how much they need it or how little the guy who has it needs it.

[Lolites]

I don't need to imagine it any different.

sure, you dont have to, i just thought you might want to open your eyes to see not only your opinion but other things, like, in this case, reality

[Drigs]

you were 100% in the right, its your loot to decide what happens. it was also a jerk move. Residuum comes so fast its almost worthless where as that guy may be stuck for months without seeing that drop again. But again, your loot, your rules

[kamuimac]

Salute o7

So to start things off im still fairly convinced that I am in fact not the bad guy, but considering 12 people just told me i am a dick and only 1 guy was on my side I feel like sharing my story, or ranting, you name it.

After missing my guilds hc raid this week and sitting at ~4600 titan residium i decided to join a hc nyalotha raid to try grab any azerite piece for its scrap value. (my char is currently sitting at ilvl 475 so i dont need anything else in there) Vexiona dropped her headpiece and immideatly afterwards i got whispered by a hunter if i was so kind to trade it to him, considering i allready have Carapace Loot and would most likely not need it.

I declined and got called out in raid chat for being a selfish dick. At that point i was like i was like "eh, is that guy serious?" but people were kinda quick to side with him. Arguments were being made for me to just wait for next reset because i was sure to receive enough residium to just be guaranteed to buy a piece of gear that only had a chance to be an upgrade while our groups hunter was guaranteed an upgrade (if i traded him).

I pretty much did not react in chat, only thing i typed was that the sole reason i joined the raid in the first place was for a few shots at 200 residium so i could try get an upgrade at the azerite vendor. (i failed at that btw, not that it would matter)

Either way, raid leader (being premade with the hunter) told me to either give the headpiece to his hunter friend or be kicked. Told him that i still dont see a reason to to do so and got shafted. After being kicked one pala heal whispered me saying he would not even have a problem if i decided to keep the item for transmog purposes.

What are your thoughts? The group i joined were mostly randoms (4 guys from one guild) and still seemed to agree that i was being selfish.

Edit: a few things that people keep asking

1st: I did not know any of these people nor did i get informed about any loot rules or special purpose of the raid (like trying to catch up people that a behind on gear)

2nd: the exact echange between the hunter and me was the following:

https://imgur.com/IAZAcqQ

3rd: I did not initially pick this one up because frankly i did not matter to me, the hunter did fine for his gear, though he was the weakest DPS, and yes, he would have profited from the upgrade. DPS numbers (there was another hunter above me at 113k dps, i am #2 the hunter this post is about is #10) were:

https://imgur.com/d0VCUU4

it was your loot and he had no reason to extort it from you

this is the reason why PL was implemented to protect people like you in this situation

sadly you paid the price from others being toxic.

[ssjgohan4life]

They wernt up front that it was a raid intended to boost there hunter freind, and the default for pugs is your loot is your loot no one else is entitled to it for any reason.

That is a factor in this no one's getting, the op was providing a very large boost along with a few others to these guys that without they would have struggled to kill anything at all.

If some one gives there loot in a pug run, it's is a gift and should be seen as such. No one has a right to some one else's loot, no matter how much they need it or how little the guy who has it needs it.

I didn't say he was required to give the gear over just said it was kind of selfish not too, and you can't blame the group for kicking him. He can do whatever he wants with personal loot even if there are rules, they can't enforce them other than kicking you.

[Dalinos]

Oh how quickly people forget how things were. Back in the day, without this Personal Loot shit, the BOSS dropped items, and the items were on the BOSS. Meaning, that with the loot system the game had for over 85% of its lifetime (everything bar Legion/BFA), OP would not have even been allowed to roll, since rolling for what is equivalent to Disenchanting (scrapping) was a Greed roll. And he wouldn't have had an issue.

Everyone who's saying "He was in his right to keep it", "fuck the other guy for asking for OP's loot" either have the memory of a gold fish or are delusional in thinking that a GREED roll would supercede a NEED roll in the old loot system.

- - - Updated - - -

it was your loot and he had no reason to extort it from you

this is the reason why PL was implemented to protect people like you in this situation

sadly you paid the price from others being toxic.

Without personal loot he wouldn't have even been allowed to roll. He was wearing a 475 BIS item and a 460 non-BIS item dropped. People would've laughed in his face if he had decided to roll "Need" with the reasoning being "some Residum".

[arkanon]

Oh how quickly people forget how things were. Back in the day, without this Personal Loot shit, the BOSS dropped items, and the items were on the BOSS. Meaning, that with the loot system the game had for over 85% of its lifetime (everything bar Legion/BFA), OP would not have even been allowed to roll, since rolling for what is equivalent to Disenchanting (scrapping) was a Greed roll. And he wouldn't have had an issue.

Everyone who's saying "He was in his right to keep it", "fuck the other guy for asking for OP's loot" either have the memory of a gold fish or are delusional in thinking that a GREED roll would supercede a NEED roll in the old loot system.

- - - Updated - - -



Without personal loot he wouldn't have even been allowed to roll. He was wearing a 475 BIS item and a 460 non-BIS item dropped. People would've laughed in his face if he had decided to roll "Need" with the reasoning being "some Residum".

More delusional "back in MY day" garbage. This is NOT the scenario we are dealing with, so everything you said is worth exactly ZERO. Seriously, there are so many things wrong with your logic, i dont even want to get started because ill be here all night showing you how horribly out of touch with reality this post is.

"back in my day, you people wouldn't even be allowed in the same restaurant as me, so get to the back of the line"

[kamuimac]

Without personal loot he wouldn't have even been allowed to roll. He was wearing a 475 BIS item and a 460 non-BIS item dropped. People would've laughed in his face if he had decided to roll "Need" with the reasoning being "some Residum".

and this is exackly why PL was implemented.

because extortion like this happend on daily basis.

[Dalinos]

More delusional "back in MY day" garbage. This is NOT the scenario we are dealing with, so everything you said is worth exactly ZERO. Seriously, there are so many things wrong with your logic, i dont even want to get started because ill be here all night showing you how horribly out of touch with reality this post is.

"back in my day, you people wouldn't even be allowed in the same restaurant as me, so get to the back of the line"

Actually, with the release of WoW Classic, it's not even a "back in my day" post. It's actually going on, right now, in classic. Guilds of 45+ raiders coming up with fair distribution loot systems, whether it be DKP, Loot Councils, you name it.

I'm wrong? Go on, elaborate. I've been through a decade + of hardcore/semi-hardcore raiding, Master Looter was a blessing. Picking & choosing who gets what loot and why, based on a myriad of different factors, each having to do with the progress of the guild as a whole. None of this "Personal Loot" bullshit. The item drops on the BOSS, it is lootable from the BOSS, it is the Master Looter's decision (via the various loot distribution systems) who gets what.

The scenario we are dealing with currently, to bring it to today's frame of reference, is a completely stupid one. By the technical rules of the game, noone is in the wrong. PL means its his, and he doesn't wanna give it to a stranger, raid leader can kick whoever he wants for whatever reasons, because it's his raid. If you wanna use the "Letter of the Law", noone it as fault.

The moment you invoke the "Spirit of the Law", OP is in the wrong. You roll Need on an item to use that item because it is an upgrade. Anything else (Vendorizing, Sharding, Scrapping) is categorized as a Greed roll. Transmog is a grey area, since they are collections that have an end and can be filled up, but still, "Need for Transmog" is on the same level of importance as "Need for offspec/PVP", in my eyes.